Many of the fair sex do not jump at the chance to spend a day or two in the wilderness, much less spending that time engaged in learning survival skills in less than luxurious conditions.

Sometimes this is just fine with me; a little male bonding and all that.

But then I meet a charming woman with whom I would like to share outdoor survival experiences. Leaving aside my personal deficiences and their contribution to the situation, what has worked for you in this regard?

Thanks.

Find out her physical fitness level and take her on a day hike that doesn't challenge it. I like to bring a semi-gourmet spread and maybe a stove for making hot chocolate. If you know a good place, show her a pretty view. If you can do it during a season relatively free of biting bugs and check the weather forecast so it doesn't rain. Make it a date the first couple of times so she enjoys it, then see if she would consider a hardier adventure.

Or give up on having a woman in your life and then you will begin to enjoy a peaceful life.



PS the statement above comes from a divorced guy…
And loving it.


PPS all you woman out there this post is meant as humor (sort of…)

Based on my experience as a motorcycle rider training instructor, the best thing we ever tried was a class of all women for getting the ladies into riding.

We found that many women were hesitant because it was a stereotypically male passtime. The consensus seemed to be that they didn't want to be seen as weak or incapable infront of guys or were worried about prejudice from the males in class.

We did some test classes of all women at a bike show one year (about 15 ladies at a time) and they were some of the fastest, strongest, best behaved, and funnest classes we ever ran...surprised us all actually. I'm not teaching anymore but I heard that they're going to be trying the same thing with the 'over 50' crowd. I bet there will be similar results.

In your example you're talking about a single person so this might not apply...but it's still food for thought if the opportunity comes up.

Women are as interested in survival issues as men are-they just see survival in a more realistic fashion. They tend to prepare for things that will be likely to kill you, like health and traffic-rather than things that are less likely to happen, but more fun to work on, like dog packs and civil unrest.

For me, it is generally more successful to find out what interests the woman and head in that direction, rather than try to get them going in my direction. It is not all about me. and managing women is like herding cats.

Nighthiker and hacksaw offer sage advice. Alternatively, if you really want to mix survival and love, look for a partner with skills that complement your skills: a doctor, nurse or paramedic if your medical skills are rudimentary, a skilled cook if you are not one-like that. To my way of thinking, love is so bloody rare in this world that it is self-defeating to set up a lot of pre-love criteria. Good relationships often occur in folks of differing interests, ying meeting yang.

Thus endeth the 'Dear Abbey" element in the ETS forum.

Those are good points too Mike.

My DW has zero interest in survival skills. It's not something we share. But she loves the fact that I am because she feels much safer because of it when we go camping and hiking...it's anything but a barrier between us...if anything it's the opposite.

It would be good to hear from some of the female members of our community.

The female members cannot respond because they are laughing too hard to type-

Not again ....

I would recommend watching the film 'Carry on Camping' to gain some in sight into the subject of this thread.


A short clip from the movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnHO9hGt3Pw&feature=related

DW and I had a litle incident this past weekend.

Anyway, DW froze when I asked her to dial 911. I called instead. While I was on the phone, any chance of immediate disaster was eased, and I informed 911 of that. Nothing was really hurt but for a rolled SUV, who's I have no idea. But I think, DW was not happy with ehr reaction, so maybe I have an opening to work on that.

I think there are huge differences in various survival skills. Knowing how to make a decent report during a 911 call is one, as maybe knowing what plants you can eat from the native flora. If you break down various activities, you may find some that a woman enjoys, while she does not want to all of the things you enjoy. Try to find things she might like and give them a try, not jsut think about the back packing trip. Maybe, she'd go to the range.

Discussing preparedness and the reasons etc lead to 'survival' type mindset and also some wilderness survival learning. Don't just right in.

They are either interested or they are NOT! It's like going to Alaska, One either loves it or hates it and there is no middle ground.

I agree, but if they have even a little interest, what are some good ways to fan that spark of interest into a flame of enthusiasm?

+1 on that.

My DW hunted deer and and field dressed a Bambi long before I met her. When I found this out, I asked her to marry me a few days later. She is more than capable of taking care of herself in a crisis or the outdoors for fun, but it is because she wants to be. However, given a choice, she prefers a condo by the beach.

Good luck trying to convert anyone, male or female, who isn't interested in learning outdoor survival skills.

If you want to look at a model of how to teach an unlikely audience about ETS-type skills, read Blast's blog. His narrative on teaching kids about this stuff is a thing of beauty,as survival education and as how to be good dad, and mis-steps are reported as well as successes.

So, you thinking maybe killing and canning chicken as a first "date"?

Speaking as "one of the fairer sex" - You're absolutely right - and it's true of women and men. As was suggested earlier, change your "hunting ground". (LOL)

This isn't a man-woman thing, though you're probably right that there are more of you than us. I suspect that "us/them" mentality might be part of the problem. Trying to convince anyone who's not at all interested is a loosing battle.

If there's a bit of a spark there, build on it slowly, little by little. Don't expect them to be gung-ho about transforming themselves into Grizzy Adams overnight or ever.

Nursemike,



-Blast,

Hey, bacpacjac, what works for you that might also work for others?

No, blood shouldn't be involved until at least the third date.

-Blast, (aka Romeo of the Woods)

I grew up camping, backpacking, hiking, canoeing, etc... so it's natural for me. My husband did too so we're a great fit and are now sharing that with our kids.

I've got friends who are interested and some that aren't. But I've noticed the preparation mindset creeping in on those with little or no interest. A keyring flashlight here, a first aid kit there, a bit more food in the pantry...

Getting outdoors and roughing though, that's a different story!

LOL!! Great advice Blast!!

Can we talk about that?

But will quoting Blast's Rules do an offending guy any good?

I don't mean to be sexist here but it seems to me that women have a different shade of glasses on when they look at the world as compared to men.

As nursemike says "Women are as interested in survival issues as men are-they just see survival in a more realistic fashion. They tend to prepare for things that will be likely to kill you, like health and traffic-rather than things that are less likely to happen, but more fun to work on, like dog packs and civil unrest."

To that end I will paraphrase an article by a well-known female car enthusiast that holds up a real life example of the difference in the way men and women see cars.
http://autos.canada.com/news/story.html?id=0e55fae1-452b-4f1a-8f23-e3dc5412e783
When a man sees the CHECK ENGINE light come on - he thinks, "Drat, the emissions control is on the blink again. I'll get it serviced next time I'm in for an oil change." When a woman sees the CHECK ENGINE light come on she thinks, "OH NO, the engine is about to die and leave me stranded on the side of the road!!!" The author also singled out North American auto makers (and specifically Ford) of being the most vague with it's idiot light. It sends out the wrong message. In reality, it just means that something in the emissions controls is a little out of sync and some anonymous error number pops up - hardly anything to panic about. And yet that's not how it is being interpreted.

That article blew my mind!!! I had absolutely no idea that it would be interpreted that way. I'm not a fan of idiot lights in the first place but I at least thought that most people thought along the same lines when the see them.

Therefore in order to get women interested in "survival" topics you have to speak in the language as they think in. I, however, am not a good interpreter of that language.

A wise woman once said "if it has tires or testicles, you are going to have trouble with it."

It is as silly to try to talk about things that are true of all women as it is to do so about all men. The variations within the genders are wide. I spent thirty years in a predominantly female profession, and have spent lots of time listening to women. If you wish to gain fluency in the language of women, you gotta listen to them. Not talk at them. Assume that they are wiser than you are in lots of respects (they usually are) and assume that they have spent much of their lives being talked at by men (they usually have). Their role in society is different than ours: we have to keep the house in good repair, they have to make it into a home. They are phenomenally good at what they do, and they are all very beautiful. Some more so than others, but they are all beautiful. AS RAH said, "they have so much of what we have none at all". God bless them all.

Albert Einstein got married and divorced. If the smartest man that ever lived can’t figure out woman, what makes you think any of us can????

I think the greatest bit of wisdom that I have come up with is this: Don't try.

Accept her for what she is, show her respect, and ignore those times when it's not returned.

Jeepers Mike. You can "suck up" with the best of them!
Sorry, but your response came across as a bit too flattering to women. I'll be the first to admit that women do a lot of things better than men and very specifically BETTER THAN ME! But there are a lot of things that men do better. But short of swapping out bodies, there is no way on earth that I will ever really understand women (the lovely creatures that they are) no matter how much time I spend with them.

I work in a traditional male dominated profession and yet I have 3 female bosses (Supervisor, Manager and President) that have very different priorities and ways of doing business than I do. Sometimes it's frustrating like beating my head against a brick wall.

true-figuring them out is unattainable. The trick is for the guy to make his way to the edge of the cloud of testosterone in which he exists, and peer out at the rest of the world. Male hormones cause a roaring in the brain that blots out all rational thought until age forty or so. About then, guys discover the mess that they have gotten themselves into by virtue of testosterone intoxication (it's like beer-goggles) and saying "Where am I and how in hell did I get here?". This is called a mid-life crisis. Women know this is going on, and shake their heads, figuring that eventually the guy will reach forty and become tolerable. So, don't try to understand women-we just aren't up to the challenge. Just enjoy them and try not to [censored] them off too much.
Albert Einstein knew lots about the relationship of mass, energy, and the speed of light; he knew little of anything else. Freud suggests that nearly all human activity is the sublimation of the sex drive into other work. If everyone were having as much sex as they wanted, there would be no wars, no Eiffel Tower, no PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. National Committee, no General Theory of Relativity. Maybe the divorce caused him to re-route his biological energies into working on physics problems. Answer truly: would you rather spend an hour in rapturous sexual congress with your significant other, or an hour working on mathematical formulas? I rest my case.

Would you rather spend an hour in rapturous sexual congress with your significant other, or an hour working on mathematical formulas?

If life with woman was just that simple, but it’s not. There is a lot of other BS that you have to wade through to get that hour.


The math problem doesn’t need constant attention, I can work on and attend to it as much or as little as I wish. Try that with a woman and get back to us on how well the hour of rapture went…

I am struck by how much male advice versus how little female advice populates this thread.

Two conclusions: the blind appear to continue leading the blind while celebrating their blindness, and women apparently want to remain mysterious contrary to the popular perception that they are always the ones who say, "we need to talk."

Neither conclusion is new to me, but I live in hope - it doesn't cost any extra.

Dweste, I wrote a long response to this thread, but I am not sure if anyone is interested in a long response, so I boiled it down to the 5 main ideas in my post, leaving out the explanations.

If you want to read it, let me know and I will either post it or pm you. I am kind of shy about posting my thoughts on a board like this. Here is what my post boiled down to:

These are some of my thoughts for finding someone who is interested in the things you are interesed in:

1. Try to 'only' hook up with a woman that has interests similar to your own. It will avoid a lot of problems. I agree with folks who said that a person is either interested or not. It is best not to go into a relationship thinking that you are going to change them.

2. Show interest in her and the things she is interested in. Let her talk and be sure to listen to her too! Not just you talk all the time. Many men don't do this. Be sure to follow this one throughout your relationship. Not just at the beginning to impress her.

3. Make sure the woman you hook up with has a pleasant nature and not a contrary one. You will be a happier man.

4. Avoid nit picking, blaming and a superior attitude when you do share your emergency survival stuff with her (and in life in general). These 3 things destroy relationships. Also follow this one throughout your relationship together.

5. You might even give an online dating service a try. It worked for my brother and he is crazy about his new girlfriend. It also worked for one of my daughters. They are now engaged. Both hooked up with the first person they contacted and both found relationships with someone who has the same interests!

I hope that this is helpful!

Joy

Joy, bless you. I would appreciate getting your longer version however you are comfortable sending it.

Thanks.

Finally, an explanation for why my wife and I haven't accomplished anything significant in the last ten years (other than have five children).

A wise woman once said "if it has tires or testicles, you are going to have trouble with it."

My DW couldn't agree more

Mike

I simply cannot agree with any of nursemike's statements about men. Simply stated, I think he is giving men the short shrift and elevating women by puting them on a pedestal. I've never really ever met a woman worth much, relative to other women, that wanted to be put on a pedestal.

I do agree that figuring them out is simply not possible. But that cloud of testosterone stuff seems like, well, stuff that should be composted to be of any good.

Instead of figuring out how there brains work, people should think of members of the opposite sex, and people in general, as if they were machines, and operating the machines was the goal. If pulling a lever makes the machines happy and gets it to want to do what you want, then push that lever. If putting it in a certain position works, then put it in that position. If pushing a buttong works, do that. With people, there is not one button, position, lever, etc. there are many, and all will work at some time or another, so figuring out the right time to push a buttong, pull a lever, etc. is key.

In other words, if making fun of DW gets her to where want the same thign that I want from or for her, then why not do it? If complimenting her works, then do that.

In my case, DW seems to really like the idea that she as a guy who is somewhat prepared for the unexpected and is prepared to act in instances when things occur. As an example, we went by an overturned vehicle recently. It was pouring and it seemed as if the overturned SUV was going a little too fast, hit a puddle, went out of control, crossed a road and turned over into a ditch. I got out, checked on the driver, called 911, etc. (the accident was not a big deal, except to the guy who damaged the SUV, as he was OK). Later that morning, DW gave me some of the great looks a guy gets when his woman is happy with just who he is. For me, I was just doing what I thought was the right thing.

Now as far as trying to get her to be a bit more prepared, I think the incident gave me an opening. She froze when I asked her to do something, then she snapped out of it and helped me. I could tell there was real concern in her, because she does not want to be the person who freezes. So, maybe I have a chance there to get her to work on something.

I think as with anything, the key is to try to get them to want to work on it. Getting a person to do something is not going to be successful, unless you also get them to want to do something.

For a woman who is ok with some and not other outdoor activities, begin with doing the things she likes to do and expand from there.

hmmm, why did you edit that???

No need to explain.

But the same ideas apply to the implied arena as all others. You do what works for the person in question. It's best to have your eyes on the future though, because if you do the same thing all the time, soon it won't work and may be taken for granted.

I like that approach. Sort of an engineer's take on human resource management. BF Skinner did some work in this area back in the sixties, called it behaviorism. Behaviorists dispense with all the psycho-analytic talk therapy stuff and go directly to a stimulus-behavior- positive/negative reinforcement sequence. When applied clinically, instead of delving into the client's feeling about mother, the behaviorists go directly to telling the client, "If you act crazy, we will treat you as a crazy. If you want to live a normal, happy life, don't act crazy". Amazingly effective for some clients. Therapy consists of learning how to budget, manage a checking account, and act the way sane people act.

I conceptualized organizations as machines for a long time-figured if I tinkered with the design enough, I could eventually get it to run perfectly. After a few decades of experience, it became clear that the organization is not a machine, it's a mule: if you kick it, it will kick you back.

A lot of guys have doubts about the testosterone mind cloud explanation-supporters tend to be older guys and females. It explains a lot of behavior, but it is only a theory, with a theory's usual flaws.

I like calling it an engineer's take. Good term. Thanks, nursemike.

As far as the psycho-analytic talk, I think you know a lot more about it than I do. I've seen both men and women be out-of-control, hormone-fueled individuals. When in my 20s and 30s, I won't say I always avoided hormone-fueled women, which seemingly has not hurt me. Some of those encounters, well . . . .

But, IMO, for most of us that have no serious issues, the positive/negative reinforcement stuff works fine. People have been using it only for a few hundred generations.

I realize some people need the assistance of someone fully versed on psycho-analytic talk in order to deal with things in their own minds.

I've been waiting to post on this....

My mother built her first BoB, with help, when she was six.

My sister's idea of a good time is camping with a hammock and a tarp and didn't freak when she woke up with a rattlesnake sharing her sleeping bag.

My ladyfriend has a tote of bug out gear loaded, and empty tote to fill, along with cat carriers, that she can load and be gone with in under an hour if she has a hurricane inbound.

So... I can't help any one. I just wanted to share. *laughs*

Easy for you to laugh.

Yes, but does she kill chickens for you while you are out kayaking with ESSBers?

-Blast

No.

She's had three cases of food poisining- once on beef, once on chicken, once on fish. She's a ovolacto veggie as a result. :P

Love means never having to pluck your chicken?

Hide your credit cards in the woods.

"...she woke up with a rattlesnake sharing her sleeping bag..."

I don't freak easily, but that might do it!!!

I'm in agreement with BigDaddyTX here. My wife had no experience camping or outdoors. We got our daughters involved in Girl Scouts and she decided to volunteer. She took the GS camp training, which included fire starting, camp cooking, first aid, etc.

I was a little surprised at her description of her reaction. She says that being able to start a camp fire makes her feel "empowered", better able to control her own environment. I've been camping, hiking, hunting since I was a kid, so I never thought of how it might feel to learn what you have been missing.

Of course, participating in the lives of 4 daughters who like to play outside is a motivator, without that I don't know if she'd have ever set foot in a tent.

Now we have discussions about emergency signals, preparedness, etc. that just didn't occur before.

Still can't get her to take a fish off the hook, but I have not lost hope (she'll at least get the line in the water)...

Did you mean ROFLMAO? Or is this a new one to me?

Not to derail, but I thought this was funny.

My wife can take it or leave it. I'd rather spend my tent time with someone to snuggle with, but my camping buddies don't appreciate that, so I will save it for the home scene.

Now my daughters are a different story. They will get grubbier than me if I let 'em. The older one gets hairy legs so bad if she rubbed them together after a week at camp we'd be swarmed by locusts!

LTHTPR, got it.

This why some of us were in favor of a "you-caught-it-you-eat" gourmet section here, with Blast's Culinary Corner as a special feature.

But it depends where they live. My mother, a fashionably dressed business woman in NYC, now EDCs an N95 mask, flashlight, water, first aid supplies, and a couple of other odds and ends in her gigantic Loius Vuitton pocketbook. You'd never know it from looking, but after 9/11, many NY women started bringing EDC kits with them. And of course with pocketbooks, they have a major leg up on us guys. God help some establishment that tries to separate a New York woman and her pocketbook. (And my nutty father carries enough junk in his "high-tech" fanny pack to outfit a small nation. It must run in the family... )

I wasn't there, but knowing her, she probably had a good case of shakes after her roommate moved on. But ice cold in the clinch- she's better at that than I am.

Okay, second female opinion...

You're going to have to know her a little before you know how she feels about camping and survival stuff. It's really hard to work survival into a good pick-up line, isn't it?

Many women are actually interested in survival and preparedness, but may not know quite how to start. If they ask a guy, they're often buried by an avalanche of information, and that cures them of asking again.

Many guys are really quite obnoxious about their skills. Why do you think gun classes for women taught by a woman are more popular than gun classes taught by men? Because of that macho I-Know-Best-You're-An-Idiot attitude. That sigh and rolling of the eyes, the talking down to us like we're infants, none of this helps. Some of these guys start in the middle of a subject, lose their audience immediately, then suddenly act like they're teaching a kindergarten class and start with the basics (like they're offended we aren't smart enough to keep up with them), but using very small words and very short sentence, like we're babies.

Here are some basics. K.I.S.S. (everyone knows that acronym, right?)

Use the news -- there's an overwhelming number of stupid, ignorant and careless people out there, plus a bunch of natural and manmade disasters. If some incident takes place, kind of idly ask her what she would do if that happened where she was. Think about what she says; ask more questions about why she would do that, what she would do if help wasn't immediately forthcoming, make a few suggestions. Get her thinking. Planting a small seed of thought can reap a ton of results.

Keep your information in short bites. Nothing makes a woman's eyes glaze over more than an hour of verbal diarrhea (on any subject). Attempting to tell her every single thing you know about anything is just an ego trip. (Can I say 'ego trip', or is that too '60's?)

If you think she should have a GetHome bag, give her a few things that she would ordinarily use, like a decent flashlight, first (not the bag). Give them to her one at a time ("I thought you could keep this in your purse, what with all the power outages and brownouts that have been going on." "Here's a little first aid kit I put together for you.") Give her stuff she could reasonably be expected to use. Graduate to the bag. Hold off on the multi-tool, kaybar and the flare gun.

If she keeps asking you to pull out your multi-tool to do something for her, or asks to use yours a few times, grin and give her her own. You might even giftwrap it.

Use the familiar to teach about the unfamiliar.

If you're teaching her firemaking skills, don't start with some cool thing like a Blast Match or a fire piston, start with a MATCH. She knows what a match is for, how it works, and she's used them before. Focus on showing her how to start with small, dry tinder, then adding small twigs, then larger twigs, etc. Give her a success right away. Toss in a few facts about using absolutely dry materials, wind, rain, etc, as you go. Take it easy, keep it simple. Don't overwhelm her with information that she's not ready for.

Shelters: Start simple, like with a tarp, and show her how to anchor it down. A few simple knots are good to know.

Collecting water: She will probably feel better about collecting rainwater in a mylar blanket than scooping mucky water out of a hole and treating it with a tablet.

Wild foods: always start with the ones she can easily recognize: blackberries (all the cluster-type berries like blackberries and raspberries are edible; many of the single berries are poisonous) and cattails (the root has a sweet, mild taste; before the flower forms the shoot can be peeled and eaten like asparagus).

Like homeschooling children, you can work bits and pieces of survival into everyday situations and conversations. Just avoid overdoing it.

Sue

You the woman!

Thanks.

Wise advice, Sue.

There are many reasonable ways to approach the subject that aren't macho, guns blazing, end-of-the-world with zombies etc. That stuff spells k-o-o-k to a lot of of women.

Red Cross publications?

First-aid courses?

Environment - reducing impact, 100-mile diet, etc.?

Self-sufficiency - gardening and storing produce?

Pandemic planning - from the local health authority?

There's also the historical angle. Pioneer women -- our grandmothers and great-grandmothers -- knew more about "survival" in a practical everyday sense than the rest of us put together. There was no macho about it; it was just life, and most of those skills hold up today.

That is some very wise, straight forward advice. Advice that I will start working on using. It should help improve my "sterling personality friction" that I seem to work so well with so many.

It's rather sobering when I am having to admit guilt to having done some of the aspects that you mentioned. I will go to my room now and say some "Hail Mary's".

Thanks, Sue

I'll second what Sue just said. Adding that some women are probably even interested but might not openly let on as it might be seen as a bit different -- maybe not different to the guys -- but a lot of women will look at you like your hair is on fire when you enter the yarn store in camo. (yes I did and yes I knit--like I'm going to change after leaving the shooting range--geesh!)

Also be patient with us -- just because we haven't hunted, etc., doesn't mean we can't or won't. It often means we had mother's who wouldn't let us get dirty.

But Dweste, if they have every cosmetic known on the planet in their purse, if might not be a good fit.

CBP

"Clay Bustin Princess"

I will insist on a complete purse inventory on the first date!

[She can check out my EDC.]

Welcome CBP, "Newperson" (nice handle).

Mike

BOW is a program where women can learn about outdoors skills in the company of other women. This program is available in many different locations around the country.

Here is another program

http://examiner.gmnews.com/news/2008/0821/front_page/001.html