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#140563 - 07/21/08 10:31 AM Camping Thoughts
Since2003 Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2205
We went camping this weekend with the Young Adventurer's Club, this trip was to Round Valley Reservoir, near Clinton NJ. These camp sites are accessed via a 1.5 mile over-water paddle, making it an exciting trip for the kids, and not too hard for the parents.

As usual, one of the dads made the fire with a bow drill, and now the 9 and 10 year olds are getting closer to actually producing fire by this method.

There were 17 of us at the campsite, and while I found it all to be very relaxing, there was a bit of a nagging thought in the back of my mind.

First of all, the lake (it's actually a man-made reservoir) is absolutely, perfectly clear. Out in 40 feet of water I could see the bottom perfectly, which is nice, but it also was perfectly clear in at the shore, for the most part, it was like a swimming pool. For all of you fishing enthusiasts out there, you know that a perfectly clear body of water is a dead body of water. Indeed this was the case - there were a few fish - mostly panfish - but as a few snorkeling excursions bore out, only a very, very few bass, and whatever trout there were had been stocked in the spring, and I didn't see a single one.

While there were most likely plenty of deer, we didn't see one. We also didn't see any raccoons, skunks, chipmunks, ducks or geese, and years of camping and waking quietly at dawn has made seeing these creatures a routine of my camping morning experiences. Not this time.

I pondered this thought alone at about 5:00 AM - that if we were going to have to live off this land, the 17 of us would have a very, very hard time of it.

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#140583 - 07/21/08 02:21 PM Re: Camping Thoughts [Re: Since2003]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
Acid rain and falling pH have rendered a lot of Adirondack lakes clear and lifeless. There have been some attempts to toss bags of lime in some ponds, most easily accomplished by hauling it in by snowmobile in winter and dumping it on the ice, but it does not seem to be very successful. Maybe human life is an infection of planets, and acid rain and global warming are the planetary equivalent of penicillin.
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#140588 - 07/21/08 02:56 PM Re: Camping Thoughts [Re: nursemike]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


That's a really good point Martin. I live in a province with over 100 lakes, 59 species of fish (51 native), and an abundance of wildlife around those lakes.

But it's easy to assume that a lake will have fish in it...could be a dangerous assumption. There are quite a few lakes around here that just don't have fish in them. They're not all 'dead' lakes but some just have small organisms but no fish.

The bigger concern to me are the animals you can get which you shouldn't eat because of other environmental issues. Right now the government recommends eating no more than one fish from the North Saskatchewan River due to Mercury content (zero if you're under 15). One of the largest lakes in the area (Wabamun) has fish you can't eat right now becuase of a major oil spill. If you didn't know, you could ingest a lot of toxins 'living' off of those fish. It's better than starving to death but the long term damage to your body could really suck.

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#140589 - 07/21/08 02:59 PM Re: Camping Thoughts [Re: ]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
In California I sent email asking the Department of Fish and Game, and the California EPA, which lakes and reservoirs have the cleanest water. They claim not to know.

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#140590 - 07/21/08 03:01 PM Re: Camping Thoughts [Re: dweste]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


Isn't California the birthplace of environmental protection in the US? I call Shenanigans.

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#140593 - 07/21/08 03:19 PM Re: Camping Thoughts [Re: Since2003]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Hi martinfocazio,

Round Valley Reservoir from this photo certainly looks like a true wilderness spot, but looks can be deceptive.



Just over the ridge line on the other side is one of those suburban sprawl property developments with a golf course bang in the middle (gated community possibly, can't really tell using google earth). Golf Courses just like reservoirs tend be highly sanatised places just as suburban and urban folks like them that way. frown

Did you hear the dawn chorus at the reservoir?

http://www.idcd.info/audio/dawn-chorus.mp3

http://www.idcd.info/listen-to-the-chorus/



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#140599 - 07/21/08 03:52 PM Re: Camping Thoughts [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Since2003 Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2205
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Round Valley Reservoir from this photo certainly looks like a true wilderness spot, but looks can be deceptive.

Just over the ridge line on the other side is one of those suburban sprawl property developments with a golf course bang in the middle (gated community possibly, can't really tell using google earth). Golf Courses just like reservoirs tend be highly sanatised places just as suburban and urban folks like them that way.


It's quite a bit less built up than that, but yeah, there's a lot of pressure around it.

The kids aren't ready for true wilderness camping (yet), we're working up to it. From the air, you can really see that this place is an anomaly - wooded, and quiet (no we didn't hear the morning chorus at all)

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Clinton,+NJ&ie=UTF8&ll=40.614474,-74.827366&spn=0.072322,0.138531&t=h&z=13

We camped on the south shore, about center of the pic. You can see the sheltering ridge to the south - kept the noise out.

But the question was simple - where were all the animals?


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#140603 - 07/21/08 04:13 PM Re: Camping Thoughts [Re: Since2003]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


Many times these things are due to seemingly unrelated events.

I remember the story of why there were no new Aspen trees growing Yellowstone National park.

Everybody was baffled until they finally analyzed the situation and realized that since the last wolf was shot 70 years ago, Elk had no threat. They over populated and and ate all the aspen shoots because they were hanging out in places that would have been dangerous when wolves were still around. They also linked this to water errosion as the Elk were eating all the willow which held the banks of streams at bay when the beavers dammed them.

Could be something similar to that...an indirect ripple effect with unexpected results.

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#140666 - 07/21/08 09:35 PM Re: Camping Thoughts [Re: Since2003]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
But the question was simple - where were all the animals?


Wow, no dawn chorus either, in such a heavily wooded area beside a large area of open water at this time of year. So not only are there no fish, no animals but no birds either. That would have seriously creeped me out! Was there any noticable insect life in the area?

Sounds like you've come across something like an old indian burial ground or a secret government environmental experiment gone wrong. eek

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDZBgHBHQT8&feature=related




Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (07/21/08 09:36 PM)

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#140668 - 07/21/08 09:41 PM Re: Camping Thoughts [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


Could it be possible that the water is doing it? No fish = no water birds. If animals won't drink from it because it's too (salty, acidic, etc) whatever maybe the whole ecosystem shifted together. No animals drinking from the water hole = no predators?

Still, it's odd that there'd be nothing.

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#140680 - 07/21/08 11:43 PM Re: Camping Thoughts [Re: ]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3256
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Interesting observation. I hope it's not chemical runoff or pH. I don't know the area, but a few notions cross my mind FWIW.

I'd echo previous questions about invertibrates -- insects, snails, water bugs of any kind. These, and algae/water plants, are the foundation of the food chain.

Sometimes, very deep lakes fed by very cold streams will have very short "growing" seasons, during which the food chain will bloom and disappear in a few warm weeks in later summer.

Development and excessive traffic can sometimes isolate lakes from ungulate/predator corridors.

Last, did you see evidence of rodents at all? Sometimes the land-based food chain depends on these little critters. I've often suspected that a dozen mouse traps and a jar of peanut butter would net more calories per day, consistently, than a firearm.



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#140681 - 07/21/08 11:53 PM Re: Camping Thoughts [Re: ]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Hi Hacksaw,

You could be right. If there are no animals, there can only be a few reasons for that. The animals that were once there cannot find enough food to survive due to local ecological factors and have moved away or the animals reproductivity has been seriously effected which again would be due to environmental factors because of pollution due to human activity.

Since the water from the reservoir would be under constant testing (it will be used for human consumption) for chemical polution which would effect salinity, nitrate levels and PH levels etc this would be easily detected. I suspect that there would probably be a biological rather than chemical or radiological pollution influence factor. This would be a biological source of pollution that is not being currently tested for in the reservoir waters and one that affects reproduction in higher order mammals or entomological reproduction lower in the food chain that is causing higher order mammals to move away because of starvation.

Are there any pharmaceutical or agrochemical companies nearby who are envolved in dabbling with DNA sequences (genetic engineering)? I suspect there might be.


Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (07/21/08 11:54 PM)

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#140684 - 07/22/08 12:07 AM Re: Camping Thoughts [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Since2003 Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2205
OK, I looked into things.

First of all, the park is known for its "exceptionally clear" water - it's popular with scuba divers. Additionally, the lake is stocked with "trophy fish" - but the waters where we were were very warm, so I would not expect trout - but I would expect bass and WAY more bluegill.

There HAVE been bears in the area, they asked that we stow food in secure containers and all that.

There were snails in the water, but they were all dead (shells only). They claim to allow waterfowl hunting from boats, but I saw nary a single duck or goose.

At the campsite, we did see a squirrel.

It was the lack of insects and tree frogs and crickets at night that was creepy - sure there were a few mosquitoes and some black flies and we did hear a few cicadas. But nothing at all like I expect. In the morning there were a few scattered birds, not much at all.

My point in all of this was the scenario of being there for X days, and expecting to collect food enough for the gang to get by. You see, when I was a young man, I used to go camping with a minimal supply of food, and we'd gather and catch for food. We'd supply about 1/2 of our needs this way, and it's just a routine that I've come to expect when camping. Really made me think.


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