Hi, This past weekend I've been busy here in SE FL; hot on the tracks of a FL Panther, that's believed to be an unknown in the present population. i have been working the past 4 months following this young adult male in his territory, which ranges 40-50 square miles. Let's just say he's winning right now,LOL! This past few weeks had me right close, once he crossed a road in front of me as I was heading into a town for supplies, go figure it was narrow 2 lane, rush hour, no place to pull over and leave the van <img src="images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I went back anyway, the next day and cast his pug marks (tracks). I hiked a few hours, but an overnight rain had put out most of the tracks. I then was out on a dayhike, 25 miles South of that location and came across his tracks! The hunt was on again <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Well it entails packing my pack for a week at a time; because if I get close, photos, hair samples (DNA), pug casts, etc are all needed for his 'id file'. So it was I found myself 17 miles on foot, deep in a FL cypress/Slashpine/ palmetto scrub terrain the past 3 days. I got in on Friday, but then the assistant i had, twisted his ankle in a armidillo hole. Be right back, Gene

And continuing, I hiked him back out 17 miles, slept in the van for 3 hours, and hiked back in the 17 miles <img src="images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Pitched camp @ 1700hrs, and it's pouring buckets, no fire, cold carry chow, sack out for a few hours before going looking. I get up around 2300hrs, it's not raining, so I decide to get some hot food in me, seeing as how it feels about 50 out. I whip out my fire kit, and get the whole tepee up and .....nothing <img src="images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Ok, the first 3 matches I figured I blew it not covering 'em from the wind. But then the next 7 don't stay lit, what gives? Too much to deal with, eat cold carry, and grab my gear and go. Any of you who know FL backcountry know it's a mixed bag going into it, bugs, scorpions, snakes, 'gators, spiny plants that make you go OUCH! Well i hiked a good 5 miles Saturday night, no sign, sound of the cat around, plus it's raining,again <img src="images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Back to camp. Ok Sun's cracking, 0545hrs, Sunday morning, i figure today the fire's cooking breakfast. Nope! it's the matches. Finally I can see why they don't stay lit. They have such teeny heads, that just striking them makes them fail straight off! The brand is 'ROSEBUD' put out by Diamond Brand; which surprised me, since Diamond usually work. I made a mistake just bringing in the 3 boxes of them. What I ended up doing is piling up some unlit matches in the 'tepee', then flinging a lit one into them, FIRE! Food, Hot food! Hey, there's only excitement if you SEE the cat! Moral of this story, try the matches before bringing them to the field, I ususally never ASSUME anything, but got caught hard by this. As it were, it rained HARD for the remainder of Sunday, and Monday, so bad, that Last NIGHT, I hiked out under the Full Moon the whole 17 miles, and saw or heard just about ever darn critter in the woods here! At one point I thought I heard the cat call, but dismissed it as hallucinations due to intermittent sleep over 3 days! LOL! I used to carry a mag block w/striker, but the weight was a factor, as I have to keep my pack to 25 pds for a week, or I can't manage to stay out in the backcountry. I like to practice 'campcraft' as much as possible, so as to be able to utilize it wherever I go. I'm just not a lighter type guy. Thanks, Gene

I guess Gene saw his cat outside the window... We get the rest of the story in a week <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> hopefully he had time to refill his pack.

Matt

Nope, Farmer Gene left his van's windows open, AND his boots on top; while typing the first part......Meanwhile a FL DELUGE was going on outside the window, but I was minding my punctuation!! LOL! Gene, PS go to the other forum for the story <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Gene,

I hope you get paid for this! Anyway it sounds like you are having a good time at it.

I've got one word for you REDUNDANT! As in always carry more than one way to make a fire. I normally have three ways at least: Yellow Bic Lighter, Waterproof matches in waterproof container, Magnesium Avation Firestarter w/ match container packed with cottonballs treated with vaseline. The last system is actually tied into my pack and is the one I most often use.

The Florida wilderness is nasty stuff, its real easy to get lost in it. I spent some time at Pensacola. Mac

Gene,
Welcome to the forum. I live 1/4 mile east of some of that wonderful stuff you've been tracking through. Had quite a hail storm Sunday, and recurring rough weather since then which you already know about. Use serious lightening precautions out there, especially when you're on the edge of incoming rain. More into the local birds than the cats. Always have egrets and ibis in the yard. Regards, Keys

pict: I'm glad you said it before I did <img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I don't have nearly the wilderness experience Gene seems to have, but I was a little shocked <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> to read about an experienced outdoorsman going into a situation like that without even waterproof matches.

Florida's one thing - I'd hate to make a mistake like that in northern Alberta at 30 below <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Maybe "book-learning" isn't such a bad idea after all, Gene. <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

aardwolfe

I missed the part where the matches failed.

next time don't forget murphy's law "one is none, 2 is one"
always carry backups.
personally i carry 3 ways to start a fire on a EDC bases: matches ( both "waterproof" ones and lifeboat matches ), a bcb ferrosium bar ( on mine keychain ) and a BIC lighter...
and more matches and another ferrsoium bar in mine PSK.

if im doing stuff the the forest i got that + firesteel and sometimes a MFS....

Yeah Mac, I get paid to track the big cats, but it's not a lot of money. But I Do love what I do <img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> It keeps me in the woods. I do carry multiple boxes of matches, in separate ziplocs. But in general I've not had problems w/ stick matches lighting; that was my surprise, and reason to make note to others here <img src="images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> You spent time at Eglin AFB huh? I was up there to watch the M.O.A.B. be tested, courtesy of an older Bro' who's in the AF <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Man, now THAT was a BOMB! yes, the Fl scrub is an unforgiving environment; and a great testing ground for gear. Thanks for your's and everyone else's replies, that's why I'm hear, to share the knowledge <img src="images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> Gene, the cat tracker

Arrdwolfe, Granted, books DO have value, but I find ACTUAL field experience the best teacher of all, for me. I've read my share of the topic though, nothing better if you have to be inside anyway. I disagree that the matches have to be 'waterproof', in as much as it was the QUALITY of the matches, not the fact that they were wet, nor raining. I carry multiple boxes in separate ziplocs, in separate areas of my pack, and in my pockets <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> If I expect to be in a colder(snow), wetter(jungle) environment; then I might carry a box of 'waterproofs'.....I just have'nt found them for everyday use to be needed for me. But I can see how you might be concerned in your climate, where starting a fire for warmth could mean Life or death. I spend 3 weeks in the 'bush' per month on average, so I'm able to rectify any problems once returning to my van/office for supplies <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It's all a process of elimination for your gear, to find what works for YOU. I spent a whole day once just sitting by a campfire ring trying out the combustibility of all the forest materials around me; in order to see what was the fastest lighting/ longest burning. Here in FL slash pine bark 'sheds' from the trunk. I peel the outer layer off, and then separate thinner inner layers from pieces....these burn well whole or crumbled into tinder. DRY pine needles are EXCELLENT tinder, or to rehab a dying small fire. Pinecones DRY are also excellent to keep a hot cook fire cranking; but be sure to use only ones that are wide open, the closed ones dont seem to burn as readily. Use downed palm fronds to cover your firewood supplies every night, or in the day if rain is threathening <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Thanks, Gene

Great idea to carry different systems; but again, I was pointing out the matches, individually, were no good. So I resorted to having to use multiples of them in order for them to be useful <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Due to an old back injury, 25-30pds max, is what I am able to lug in my pack <img src="images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Stick matches, I have found reliable over the years, it was a change in brand that caused the issue. No problem, they'll be used up in short trips, now that I'm aware of their shortcomings. Thanks, Gene

Hey Keys! Thanks for the welcome, and the 'heads up' on the lighting <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Yes, I was IN THAT hailstorm, IN my hammock!! I had'nt taken cover 10 minutes when it hit,HARD! It was so fierce that I estimated winds in excess of 40mph were swinging my hammock <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I just hung on for the ride <img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I had thought it was hailing, but, hey, I'm in FLORIDA, I thought to myself <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Saturday and Sunday WERE nothing short of hellacious weatherwise out there. Heck, you must'va been watching the radar on TV that I was enduring in the bush <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I kinda' like that raw weather though, it always seems more dramatic to me in the bush <img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> And that ligthing storm that passed on Saturday night, WHOA NELLIE! I thought I was going to met my maker out there <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> During one of the storms my hammock fly was blown open, and I caught at least a gallon of water INSIDE. Using a chamois that I keep in the hammock to dry it off with in the morning; I mopped and rung for 20 minutes. Luckily I was wearing fleece to bed, as it rings dry easy. I stepped out after the storm passed, stripped, rung my clothes, and redressed, climbed in, slept well. For your note, over at the JD St PK, 100yds West of the 'Auto stop #10'sign, is a bald eagle nest w/ 2 fledglings in it <img src="images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> the nest is 300yds in on the S' side of the road, if you are heading towards the river <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, top of a large pine, 6-8ft diameter. It's viewed from the road at a swale, near a large palmetto. Also, lots of Sandhill cranes wandering around with chicks thses days. I enjoy birding as a side to my work too. Catch up sometime, Gene

Well, actually, I'm not one to point fingers. When I was in the (Canadian) military and we'd go on exercise, I'd stick a book of matches in every pocket - shirt, jacket, parka, pants AND rucksack. No ziplock bags or anything; and I thought I was being prepared. (Even more embarrassing, I probably WAS more prepared than many of the soldiers in my unit. In our defense, I can only say that we weren't in the combat arms; we were an Electronic Warfare squadron, and for most of the guys, it was the only time in their careers that they would serve in a field unit.)

So mine is probably the most uninformed opinion on the forum, and it's offered as such.

I think most of the regulars here would agree with me that the ideal training is a mixture of books and practical experience. Books are great because, to be blunt and callous about it, dead men (and women) DO tell tales. (I'd rather learn from your mistakes than have you learn from mine - no offense <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

Sometimes experience is the best teacher, but other times, experience can be misleading. Your chances of surviving a game of Russian Roulette are a whopping 83.3 %; your chances of surviving two games are almost 70%. More than 50% of people will survive their first three games. If you fall into the trap of thinking "Well, I've done this twice before and had no problems", you may not live the third time to profit from your new-found knowledge. (Sorry, I'm a math geek <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> , I can't help it.)

I've read books that contained bad advice, and others that contained good advice but were woefully lacking.

Larry Dean Olsen's book "Wilderness Survival Skills", for example, does not contain a single word on how to signal for help or arrange to be rescued. I read that book cover to cover several times, and it was over a year after I bought it that I realised this information was missing.

I have a book written by an experienced outdoorsman ("been there, done that, this is based on real world experience", that sort of thing). He advocates drinking your own urine if you have no water. Why? Because he knows people who did that, and they survived; so he concludes that they survived *because* they drank urine, rather than *in spite of* having drunk it. <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I guess what I'm trying to say is, books can be wrong; but experience can be misleading. You and I are probably opposite ends of the curve; I probably put too much faith in books, I'll admit. But do you place too much faith in experience? <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

To re-iterate, this is probably the most uninformed opinion you're going to get, so take it for what you think it's worth. <img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Gene,
Thanks for the bald eagle info - one of our Florida treasures. It's been a while since we've seen a nest - used to see several going to shuttle launches. If you're into baseball you might check out spring training at Port St. Lucie for the Mets games - not too far up the road from JD. Regards, Keys

Anyone used these before ? - they are supposed to be weatherproof and they look like the NATO lifeboat matches.

As a test, because I carry about 6 in my pocket FAK (as backup) I wondered how they would hold up. I struck the 1st one and the flame sort of burnt outward from the matchhead like a fuse and when it reached the wooden match after the head POOF! It went out!

I must be unlucky I told myself and struck the second match. Worse still! NO FLAME! Just the same fuselike reaction from the match head and similarly it went out when it reached the uncoated wooden part. I went thru all 6 and only the last one burnt like expected with a hot flame , consuming the entire match.....

Dammed if I'm ever going to buy storm matches again. I'm going back to the coghlan's wind/waterproof matches.....

Anyone with similar experiences ?

Yep Trusbx, I've had the same experience as you. I've tried the striking techniques mentioned in previous threads, with the same result: flare, then puff out! The was no way I could use these in an emergency situation. Heck, I couldn't even light my pipe.

So I won't carry them.

ehh.. and i used tot thought that "storm" matches are suppose to burn like a fuse. i always got a fuse like effect with mine "storm" matches ( 2 types from bcb and swiss hurrican matches ). i always put some"waterproof" matches from coughlans with mine storm to light fire wenn i don't have good tinder.
Are "storm" matches suppose to burn like a normall matches ?

How does that compare to the highly-touted NATO lifeboat matches (which I have not bought because of the cost)? Do the NATO matches give you a nice, hot flame that you can do something with?

Yes, the NATO matches do burn witha hot flame, but not a flame like on a normal match, more like a fuse, but hotter.

yeah nato matches are HOT !!. i thoushed one burned out head of a nato match that i accidentaly dropped.... i thought waiting a few sec was enough.... <img src="images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
if you light something with "storm matches" you need finer kiddeling or tinder, instead of lighting normal sized kiddling.
thats why i also pack "waterproof" matches from coughlans ( normal matches with lightly wax dipped heads ) in mine kits.