He is less likely to be attacked at the beginning of the disaster. But what after a few days, or weeks? He's a little more lethargic than others due to lack of nutrition. Should you plan to survive for just a few days or for the "long haul"?

And of course, this ignores the use of guile and weapons, possible cooperation and communication of his enemies... these are the things that humans excel at.

Being strong has obvious advantages, but people don't always stop to think about the disadvantages. Everything is a trade off of one thing vs. another. 5% body fat sucks if you're in the Donner party starving, even if you can lift a truck over your head!

One additional bit of physical training that I didn't see anyone mention but might be more valuable than any of the other types: stretching. You might be 'out of shape' but if you stretch regularly, you are far less likely to injure yourself seriously if put in a physically demanding survival-type situation.

Personally, I used to be a competitive triathlete, Master's open water swimmer and mountain bike racer. I could literally exercise all day and get up and do it all over again.

Now, 5 years and one 16 month old new baby later at age 35, I'm pretty much totally out of shape and about 15 lbs heavier than my former 'fighting weight' (depressingly, that's AFTER losing the swimming and cycling muscle mass). But because I still stretch, I know I can easily swim 2 miles, hop on my mountain bike for 3 hours, kayak for 4 hours and even walk around almost all day for two days straight with few problems except somewhat sore muscles for the next couple days. I know I can do all these things because I've done them and without any joint injuries which might prove lethal in a 'survival' situation.

Also two types of very important physical strength that I didn't see mentioned are 'core body' and grip strength. If you do a minimum amount of exercise to keep your stomach, obliques and back muscles strong, you are also far less likely to get debilitatingly hurt than if you don't. 'Throwing your back out' twenty miles from nowhere just isn't an option!

Grip strength should be self-explanatory but is highly underrated. I know I need to work on it more. I wouldn't be able to hang on for very long if my life depended on it, certainly not like when I used to rock climb back around college.

That's the beauty of this particular thread. Strength without skill is as useless as tools without skill. But there should be a defineable level of ability that is attainable and sufficient for the average individual to survive in a physical sense. I would think that you could become sufficiently skilled for the knife to be an assett rather than an opportunity for the assailant to become armed without having to become an expert knife fighter.

Using a firearm is no unskilled task either.

Being able to lift yourself vertically with your arms is a necessary precursor to being able to climb a cliff but is, by no means, the whole of the story. There is really quite a lot of skill in being able to scramble up a moderate sized boulder that can only be gained by actually trying it. If you haven't then you might being risking alot in a survival scenario.


Certainly, it makes as little sense to try to engage in a knife fight without some training than to drop yourself into the middle of a jungle with your buddy's PSK and not even the knowledge to recognize wire saw from snare wire or what either is in there for. Gear will not substitute for knowledge, Knowledge and gear will not substitute for strength, strength alone is useless if not dangerous. As a triad, Strength, Knowledge and Gear leads to comfort. With only Strength and some ability to reason Knowledge and Gear can be generated. With Knowledge and Gear you may be comfortable for a while as you strengthen your-self (if you last that long). With Knowledge only you may be dead quickly. With sufficient Gear you will be fine for as long as your gear doesn't need fuel or repair. The Genset will keep the fridge running and the beer tap is pneumatic so ..... <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

First off this is an excellent thread.

Next, I think that everyone has made valid points. I'd like to add that weight lifting alone does NOT transform you into Mr. Adonis that you see gracing the cover of magazines. These people follow strict diets, take truckloads of supplements, and often get a little pharmacy help. Going to the gym for 30-60 mins 3 times a week will not produce that kind of physique. Almost everyone can benefit from resistance training.

On the other hand... why do you think that after 200 years the military still does basic calisthenics? Jumping jacks (side straddle hop), pushups, sit-ups, pull-ups flutter kicks, jogging and sprinting. Why doesn't the military have everyone in the gym trying to press 300 lbs? Because these are the basic exercises that help you to be a soldier (a survivor). They help you to carry your rucksack for miles, lift mortar rounds, jump in a trench and shoot.

I like your standards too, and I am glad that we finally have a thread about physical fitness, clearly an important part of survival.

I think, however, that one might look at the standards and conclude "well, I can do ten pull ups - I can go out and climb."

In actual fact, arm strength (pullup style) is not that critical in rock climbing or mountaineering, while leg and core strength, along with balance, are far more necessary. Many climbing techniques are designed to conserve arm strength - hand and foot jambs, arm locks - while others are designed to ascend in ways that are not intuitively obvious (lay backs). When it comes down to it, most climbers agree that climbing is predominately mental - finding the route, and then perceiving a sequence of holds that will enable you to cover the terrain.

It boils down to - the best conditioning for climbing is to climb - gym work is only an adjunct to acquiring the techniques and stamina, along with the knowledge, to climb. Funny, it all seems to come back to the head.

All of this gives us a lovely excuse to not mow the lawn - "Honey, I have to do some survivial training, sorry..."

My neice is about to marry a reserve SEAL; she says they seem to have a wonderful time in their training. I believe he was out skiing this weekend. <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Again, while running will certainly give you aierobic fitness, running in town is not the same as hiking out in the woods - train for hiking by hiking.

I totally agree with you about the skill involved in climbing. AFAIK, EMS and REI both provide decent, if not excellent, training in climbing. Scrambling over some boulders in the local park will provide a basic concepts for the totally uninitiated. I first learned to climb on the boulders in Central Park NYC. My mentor was an expreineced climber with several solo summits world wide under his belt. The instructor can and should teach the rope techniques and basic moves, the rock will teach the rest. Only the rock can teach the rest - this is one of those situations where you just have to get out there. OTOH, I wouldn't want to even try to start climbing without the basic strength levels. There will be times when you have to pull yourself up with your arms after having climbed for 100 ft already. If you can't even do one chin-up or pull-up you are stuck 100 ft up with no way up and no good way down, exhausted and alone. (not good). As you correctly point out, if you have the head for it climbing isn't so-much different than stair climbing, you stand on your feet, bend your knees and step up to the next hold. Your hands stabilize and occasionally grip but unless you are doing extensive free-rope work you will be climbing on your legs not your arms. I emphasized the upper body in my earlier post because many could count on having the requisit leg strength simply because they carry themselves around all day, OTOH very few can actually pull themselves up even once.

BTW, if you are ball or pear shaped there is little chance that you could actually get your center of gravity sufficiently close to the rock to even consider safely climbing regardless of strength. Picture the incredibly strong suomo wrestler trying to climb a vertical rock face. <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Not mowing the lawn? How about throwing away that electric/gas lawnmower and picking up $5 rusty manual one? Make a workout everywhere you go. I hate gyms. I hate empty pumping and reps. I think I have ADD and can't concentrate on one task for too long (or maybe I'm just Polish). You don't have to be "one with the nature" to do things out there. Like I said, convert your everyday activities into workouts. Take a walk. Clean up your yard. Get off one stop early. Stand on the train and if you give up your seat for a lady for either fitness reasons or manners you get some browny points and a possible date <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. If you have a dog that's even better, he will love you even more. Get a project to do outside. Forget the car for a week. It doesn't have to be a radical change in your life but one little thing at the time. After few months maybe you won't be able to run a marathon but you will feel better, be healthier and stronger. You can't go wrong when it comes to fitness it's all benefits but remember everything in moderation. How about taking your gadgets out for a walk? Go to the park, find a piece of wood and make a spoon. Thinking your psk is waterproof or able to float? Test it out on the lake or river instead of kitchen sink.

Matt

Absolutely! And while you're at it, look out for the folks in the neighborhood. If you make a regular practice of walking around in your neighborhood, on your way to work, to the store, etc, take notice of what is happening in your area. Who drives what types of cars, who rides the train regularly, is there an abandoned home or building that is showing sudden signs of activity? What is that activity and who is responsible for it? Is there an abandoned vehicle? Is someone's door left open in the winter? Any of these things could go un-noticed if you don't notice them. Each of these things can be important in noticing and averting potential disasters.

Survival of the community is in the hands of all members of the community. If you don't know what is going on, how will you know when something bad is going on? Information is king once again.

We did get a rsuty one-frtom a car bootsale-it is bloody hard work and definetley makes you break into a sweat!

Mark

I've had some experiences lately that prompted me to post a similar thread. Luckily I used the search function first!

My wife and I have always maintained a good baseline of physical fitness. We have spent all of our years together hiking, rock climbing, and working hard in the gym during the week to support those weekend/holiday adventures and enhance our general health.

Lately we've been training extra-hard & specific for our latest planned adventure: a rim-to-rim hike of the Grand Canyon. We're going to do it in a day, but don't tell the nannies at the National Park Service.

For months we've been cranking out many hours & miles on steep trails, and it has occured to me many times: "I would not want to be out of shape & then get thrown into a survival situation".

Look at the survival stories on Doug's main site (all excellent material, BTW). Read about the people swimming, on foot, etc. In every conceivable case, being in reasonably good physical shape will help you, not hurt you.

I have to take issue with some of the above replies to the original post. I see people saying "well, being Mr. Universe could actually hurt you... all that bulk... so what if you can lift 300#... Donner Pass... blah blah blah.

You know what? The original poster never said a thing about looking like Swarzenegger. Plus, in my experience the people most concerned about the detriments of exercise are the ones MOST in need of it! They get smug about not being overly muscular... and ignore their own shortcomings.

We all agree that the mental side (knowledge, skill, attitude) is the primary survival tool. But once you've got that base covered, the fit survivor will have a better time of the ordeal. It's a well-proven fact that good physical condition ENHANCES your mental state and ability to deal with stress, both psychological and physiological.

As with most things in life, it's wise to avoid extremes. Fitness is no different. But I guarantee you this: if you persist in being a couch potato while you "harumph!" at the reasonably fit people, you will be the loser when the balloon goes up.