When it comes to guns I'm as dumb as it comes...aside from the course I took to get my license.

Last week I ordered a US Survival Rifle...my first fire arm ever...but my selection isn't what I'm posting about.

I have a question or two for those of you who are believers in the idea of carrying a rifle for survival.

Question number one! For those of you who carry a firearm or survival, do you also carry a backup to that rifle? Is so, what form does it take? Parts to fix said gun? Another smaller gun? Another identical gun? Sling shot?

Question number two! I got to thinking about this in relation to the AR-7 aka US Survival Rifle and came up with some ideas which I'd like some feedback on. Is it practical to buy or build another barrel and action which could technically be stored in the stock as backup to the action and barrel mounted on the gun normally. This would also give one the opportunity to mount a scope on the external barrel...which prevents it from being stored in the stock anyhow. Does that make sense or am I taking things too far as usual

Hi Hacksaw,

Your "gun within a gun" is an idea I have never heard of. I have heard of spare parts (e.g. firing pin, back-up sights) being stored within the butt of a rifle, and ammo or survival kits.

On the Henry US Survival Rifle it maybe possible to store a second receiver/barrel/magazine in the butt of an assembled rifle. The gun would be almost twice as heavy so the floating aspect would probably be lost.

Interesting concept, you are definitely "thinking outside of the cave".

Mike

Everybody's situation is different.

My normal habit is to carry a pistol in addition to the shotgun or rifle that I am carrying. If I am expecting some kind of problem(s) to/may arise, then I'll have a 2nd smaller pistol as a backup.

I don't worry about spare parts because my weapons are taken care of and maintained while in the field. Cleaning my weapons each morning occurs before breakfast and while I'm having my first cups of coffee.

I do carry a long knife (KaBar) and a short knife (Buck 110). If I am using my harness, then I'm also carrying a bayonet.

Those are my personal preferences.

The late Colonel Jeff Cooper was once asked about backup weapons. He said a handgun backing up a rifle was like a destroyer filling in for a battleship.If you want more than one firearm, consider two different applications with some slop over or common ammunition . People have fiddled with multiple use fireams with both practical and impractical results. The various combinations like Drillings, Cape Guns, the Savage 24 for instance. Then there are multiple systems like the Thompson Contender or various sub caliber barrel inserts, variable shotgun chokes or specialised amunition that often enough doesn't always perform as advertised ( Glaser safety slugs.)In real life, what you effectively get are the equivelent in wieght, headache and bulk of two firearms anyway- hardly the philosophy behind your version of the old AR 7. Firearms are like our knives in argument, availability and use. It still comes down to the user and appreciation for what people in our past used as 'state of the art.'I imagine most people would freak at taking a Hawken .54 alone to Alaska- and remember very few people actually carried this limited production, premier rifle in it's day!

The more I think about it the less practical it seems...however...

When we talk about modularity with our gear as we so often do...and I like things to be modular...this idea might be more practical.

Just a loose example (it's too late to think any more than loosely ):

Carry the standard AR-7/US Survival Rifle as a survival rifle but carry the scoped barrel (plus optionally the action if you wanted) in the car or in the cart or bug out stash or whatever your preferred method is. If you were to stash one of those folding stock/pistol grips somewhere as well, you could assemble two whole rifles which depending on what you're preparing for might be useful. Until it arrives I won't know for sure if I can afford the space and weight but I'm definitely going to explore my options since there is a lot of aftermarket for it. For all I know I'll like it as is and won't want to mess with it.

The above idea is actually sort of what I do with fishing. I carry a tiny tackle box with the essentials and enough hardware to fish off the end of a whittled stick or a pocket rod (though I have never liked those). In my bigger pack (which the small pack slips into...modular!) I keep a travel rod with a bait cast reel. Combined I've got everything I need to fish most species just about anywhere in the usual way.

I think Chris hit it on the head. If you go that redundant, you get all off the disadvantages of the AR-7 rifle with all the weight and size of a more practical gun. Good for some...not so good for others. Yet another aspect of survival that is a personal thing.

Interesting.

Perhaps the survival purposes for carrying firearms are important in examining redundancy and backup. The two survival purposes that seem most discussed are self-defense and hunting.

If self-defense is the goal, then a most-likely-scenario analysis would seem appropriate. Somebody other than me will have to address that.

I can easily think of situations where a pistol, a shotgun, or a rifle might be the most appropriate self-defense primary or backup weapon. The major alternative would seem to be to avoid conflict, which might not always be a choice you can make.

If hunting is the goal, a most-likely-scenario analysis also seems appropriate. Others have addressed this many times, and seem to conclude that nets, traps, and snares are more efficient than firearms for most game with the possible exception of animals larger than deer.

If that conclusion is correct, then a rifle or shotgun of sufficient caliber for such larger game would seem to be the gun of choice.

Firearm candidates that combine both self-defense and hunting would seem to include either rifles or shotguns, with the edge toward shotguns for the variety of shot, slugs, and powder a single shotgun can use. If longer-range use figures as a most-likely-scenario, then combo shotgun-rifle firearms would seem a powerful option.

Redundancy seems a big challenge given the expense, weight, and size of a single rifle or shotgun. Again, with significant weight penalties, a combination rifle-shotgun seems to include some built-in redundancy.

At the moment my brain cannot puzzle through the backup challenge.

I guess my biggest question for Hacksaw is what are you planning to use the gun for?

Heinlein said it best in Tunnel in the Sky. If you have a gun, you tend to get a bit more cocky in a survival situation and may place yourself more into harms way.

Mind you, most people on this forum knows that +/- of owning/using a gun.

Still, what application are you planning on it?

This is the first firearm I've ever owned so for now it's purely recreational. I wanted something small, light, and easy to pack so I'm more likely to take it to places I can use it for plinking and to help control the bunny population. I also wanted something inexpensive as I'm sure I'll want another once I get hooked on it.

Survival is way down the list but obviously, being me, it's crossed my mind more than once and at 2.5lbs it's something that I could carry, when appropriate, for use in an emergency.
Being as I'm very inexperienced, there's no way I'd know enough to repair a gun in the field (though that is likely to change in time) which is why the second action popped into my head as a good idea especially since you can store one in the stock while the other is mounted. I also don't know how much that piece weighs or any other inconveniences. I mail-ordered it so I won't be able to discover these things until at least next week.

The way I look at hunting in a survival situation is this. I'm only going to want small game because I won't be equipped to handle large amounts of game nor would I want to as it would attract scavengers including bears. It's way more efficient and productive to use snares but these aren't a perfect science either and if you haven't eaten in a week and a rabbit bounces within 50 feet of you...it's too late to set up another snare. Setting up enough snares when you're starving would also be exhausting work I'd imagine...far more than shooting anyhow.

I'll make another fishing comparison. If I'm backpacking and plan on doing fishing I'll have my pole, reel, tackle, etc. However if I just have the small tackle box, I have everything I need to construct a wicked 12 hook night line out of Pickerel Rigs...or both if I had both and getting food was critical. They compliment each other just like a rifle and snares.

Lastly self defense. This is a non issue for me. I would have to be in an especially desperate situation to use it for self defense except maybe to ward off smaller predators like Coyotes.

not redundancy but more options.

I sometime carry a shotgun barrel for my Handirifle when
hunting deer so I can legally shoot quail or grouse and
sometimes the rifle barrel is in my pack when hunting turkey
so I can shoot a pig.

In other states where you can take upland game with a rifle,
I used to carry cast bullet loads for birds when deer hunting.

Have fun, Hacksaw!