Mike;

I don't mind having a rational discussion about this, with you or anyone else. But I'd prefer you keep to a rational discussion and refrain from putting words in my mouth, arguing from emotion, or using other cheap tricks.

>>So your idea is to do away with pre board security because your too impatient to wait longer for better screening?

I didn't say that. I said the pre-board security is checking for the wrong things, because no-one in authority has done a proper TRA (threat-risk assessment) to determine what's dangerous and what's not.

>>You want 9 Suzy Q flight attendants to be packing a can of mace to repel 9 armed highjackers? Hmmmm..

Why not? Although I wouldn't recommend Mace or pepper spray in an enclosed space - I'd expect an electrical stun gun or Tazer device, backed up with recurrent H2H combat training.

>>Lets be serious for a minute.

You're implying I'm not serious. What gave you that impression?

>>Better screening before getting on a plane is a start to better on board security.

But we don't have "better screening" - we have overzealous, misplaced screening.

>>You keep praising El AL. Well I will tell you something. One U.S. based airline flies more flights in 1 day that El Al flys in a month.

What's your point? I don't see how this invalidates my argument. In fact, I don't see what it has to with the argument at all.

>>Its much easier to sort your security out with screw all flights to deal with.

Again, I'm not sure what your point is. The larger the airline, the more important that security must be based on the individual aircraft. Proper training of flight attendants and pilots in resisting hijackers is something that could - and should - be built into the airlines normal training program. All pilots and flight attendants have to do regular training in emergency procedures - throwing in some training in anti-hijacking aerobatics and methods would slide right into the existing program.

>>Further to that the passengers boarding El Al are harrased by security before they get on like nothing you have ever seen. They must show up for a flight 4 hrs before, they are routinely harrased by the secret police. Their backgrounds are probed like a FBI security check. Their baggage is often ripped apart 2-3 times at different spot checks and bomb x-ray sniffed. Their pictures are put through interpol as they walk into the airport terminal and this is all before they even check their bags in. Strip searches are common at the x-ray machines. Etc..Etc..Etc..

Okay, I'll grant you that not all security at El Al is unobtrusive - they're living in a war zone, and if you fly into a war zone, then you put up with the inconvenience. I'm simply pointing out that the most effective aspects of their security are so unobtrusive that most people wouldn't even notice them.

>>And you are complaining about a 40 min delay at the x-ray machine. LMAO

No, I'm complaining about stupid and unnecessary delays of up to 2 hours, and having to do ridiculous things like putting 50 feet of rope in my checked baggage because "security" has been told it could be a weapon, or having to wait for my checked baggage at the destination end simply because I want to take a SAK or a sewing kit.

>>I think you have been driving the Deerfoot trail too much bud, its making you irrational.

I think this is a personal insult that doesn't belong in a rational argument.

>>Nobody is making you take a plane to get to your destination.

Actually, they are - unless you can think of another way to get to Europe on a business trip.

>>Flying is not a god given right or part of any constitution.

Flying is a necessity in today's world. It's not a luxury or an option.

>>I think you should start driving more.

I don't. That's precisely the point I'm trying to make.

>>Aviation security has a long way to go. The system is full of security holes. There are so many ways to bring down a plane (even today) the public isn't even aware of, its scary.

Yes, because the so-called experts in charge have never done a proper TRA and have, instead, implemented knee-jerk, post hoc pseudo-security that doesn't work.

>>After every passenger is checked and there are no knives, guns or knitting needles on a plane and 10 armed secret service agents on board Delta airlines employee #xxxxx named Mohammad whos 3rd cousin is a Bin Laden follower pays him to put this small package in the cargo hold no questions asked.

Yes, because the so-called experts in charge have never done a proper TRA.

>>No, employees are not checked!!!! STILL

Yes, because the so-called experts in charge have never done a proper TRA.

>>You pays your money you takes your chances.

>>After all of that, you are still a million times more likely to be killed in your car on the way to your flight.

That's what I said - in the long run, more people are going to die from the phoney security measures we've implemented than were killed in the September 11 attacks.