Hey all!

I was thinking of getting an alcohol stove, probably from Tinny at Mini Bull designs , probably the NION. I was wondering of any of you have gotten a stove from him and how it was and if there are any weird things I should know about. I have emailed tinny before and he always responded to my emails in just a few minutes. So I guess just to rephrase the question, What do you think of your alcohol stove and are there any weird things I should know about alcohol stoves?

Thanks!

I don't have an alcohol stove because the fuel is too heavy and because they are also very slow for cooking and boiling water and have virtually zero adjustability in flame control for things like simmering etc. Overall the alcohol stove has no advantages over any other stove technology except possibly economic considerations i.e. its initial purchase price and fuel running costs.

Tinny's stoves are adjustable...very creative designs.

I've never used his stovevs but I use a Vargo Titanium stove even in the winter time. As was mentioned above they're not perfect but I've never been disappointed with them. Just be aware of their limitations and decide if your needs fall within their capability.

I have been looking at this system:

internal fuel storage
flame adjustment

Clickstand alcohol stove system using Trangia burner
http://www.clikstand.com/

Trangia burner – simmer ring – stores fuel internally
http://www.clikstand.com/products.htm

I have made and played with just about every homemade alco stove there is, and the White Box Stove (including my home made copy) is the best of the bunch. As far as storebought stoves go, I don't have a clue...

I've heard good things about the Vargo Titanium stove... Don't have to worry about it being crushed in your packs.

I've also heard good things about White Box and Mini Bull's.

Alcohol is definitely not suggested for colder climates as the alcohol doesn't vaporize as well for initial lighting. Some stoves also have a tendency to flare up.

I have a Trianga stove and love it. Small, lightweight but built strong. Burns very well with alcohol. Has a screw cap with a rubber gasket that seals very well with unused fuel in it.

At $20 what's not to like in a Mini Bull - try it and if its not for you give it to another hiker for their birthday and odds are they'll like it. I have a White Box and a Trangia (before that a homemade beer can stove) and they both work well for me on solo outings. I've taken the White Box on about 5 day hikes and one overnighter in the past month, it boils water fast and does a good job. There's nothing like a cup of hot tea or cider at the midpoint of your hike. Don't know what's meant by too heavy fuel - with an alcohol stove I can estimate how much fuel I actually need and carry that, for a dayhike that's just a couple ounces, for 2-3 meals it may be 2-3x more. When I cook with my Primus (better heat control, more people) I always take a full canister of white gas out of habit. The White Gas stove and fuel add up to a tidy ~4 oz lump in my pack.

There's no on-off with an alcohol stove, what fuel you put in tends to get burned up unless you have a way to smother it. I've put out the flame on my White Box once and saved about a half ounce of fuel. To me its easier to just notch the inside to put in enough fuel to boil a liter of water.

Im getting the Nion #3 and will start a thread when it gets here with my experiences with it, and my first not made by me alcohol stove!

I run Trangias, tried making a few other. Things to consider:

First, respect it's limits. You aren't going to make pancakes on it, but you can boil water and heat canned food.

Ethanol and methanol have relatively high temperatures of vaporization. That is a fancy way of saying they can get kinda quirky below freezing. I have a spacer made from a tuna fish can (fits wonderfully) I use to keep it off the ground, and in colder weather I've dropped a cotton ball or two into, burned them about half down, and then put the Trangia on top of so that everything is nice and warm. It is a little risky to then fuel it if it gets too hot, but I've literally run a Trangia on a block of ice with air temps right around freezing that way. But in any kind of cold weather, carry the stove in your jacket wit you, keep it warm.

Always have a wind screen, wind screens make these work so much better.

Getting one lit properly takes some practice. Fortunately, fuel is cheap. Priming is critical, otherwise you have pool of fuel in the bottom of a can burning openly, which isn't very effective.

Always carry a fuel measure. In my Trangia, I've got a cut down film cannister, but there are some other ways that are very cool like this guy, although I prefer an aluminum bottle. And always have a pin or a sewing needle around- if you see one of the burner holes being off kilter, you probably have carbon built up there and just need to clean it.

Fuel- once it goes in the stove, unless you have a good snuffer, it's going to get burned. And even with a good snuffer, draining all but the most basic stove (which is a can full of fuel) is a pain and never quite complete.

Feed it ethanol and methanol, or a mix there of (denatured alcohol from the paint section of a hardware stove). Some people have concerns about methanol's combustion products, but it has slightly higher energy than ethanol. I try to run denatured, but I always carry a bottle of yellow HEET as a back up to that. In either case, you need a good bottle, as both want to absorb water from the atmosphere which lowers the quality of the fuel.

Advantages are, ethanol and methanol occur naturally, so if you spill a little, it's not like it was white gas. IF it leaks in your pack, spread your gear out in the sun- it will evaporate much more quickly, although you'll want to wash it, then line dry it, then wash it again. If you do choose to run dentaured, or ethanol, you can use it as a disinfectant, although if you just going to be decontaminating something after being exposed to a possible BBP methanol should kill everything to, I just wouldn't use it on anything that might be going into anyone.

Use ONLY ethanol/methanol. Isopropal (sp) and things like witch hazel liniment that have an alcohol base work, sorta, but badly. Very low temp, very dirty burning, and burns very cool. And don't even try a petrochem or turpentine or mineral spirits. Assuming it doesn't explode or turn into a rocket, it will probably turn your stove into a puddle of slag.

And mark your fuel bottle as fuel, not alcohol. Methanol can make you go blind if you drink enough of it, and your liver will want to beat you. I know you've got it together, but every troops has a couple of people who do stupid stuff. They might try to liberate your "booze". And don't recycle a small soda or water bottle- it works, but they aren't very strong and people do stupid stuff.

I think, as per tinny's video on the subject, I will run mine on straight up heet.

If anybody says they won't light in sub freezing cold don't believe them! I've run mine at -30C. You will need much more fuel however. Priming them in the cold can use a lot off fuel and you'll need longer burn times to boil water.

If you have winter/cold weather in mind, make sure your pot/cup as a lid and get a good windscreen that covers the entire cup so wind can't blow past and steal your heat...and bring more fuel than you think you'll need.

Nice explanation of how you run your stove, Ironraven. I just got a stack of these stoves, and I've test-fired a few just to see that they do start up (using HEET).

Could you describe your priming technique? I got mine lit with no problems, but we're talking sitting in the garage on a summer day - filled via the central cup, and then fired them up with a BBQ lighter. I'd like to know what tips will help me get them going in trickier times. Also, if I'm trying to get them going with full windscreen/etc. while fighting wind and the elements, is there anything else I'll need to know the get them going? Seems like trying to get fire to the cup could be tricky when all the other variables are included, especially when using a Bic or a match.

Also, anyone have experience using the simmer/snuffer lid mentioned in an earlier post? It would be nice to be able to simmer a bit, although I mainly see these as for boiling some water or heating up a can of something.

Thanks

Dave

Don't have a alcohol stove yet but I keep reading that they can be hard to light due to reaching the fuel with a match or lighter?

If so, how would making up a little telescoping match holder work? Solder or wire wrap a small alligator clamp to a broken radio antenna, put the match in the clamp, telescope it right into the stove?

Like I said, I don't own one yet but would that work?

John E

If you're worried about getting too close you can always just drop the match in and retrieve it after the burner goes out. In fact I think this is the recommended method for Trangias.

Just dribble a little extra fuel trail away from the stove and light it.

I do this for my Svea 123 stove to light it.

The alcohol stove has numerous advantages.

Weight of fuel is on par with other fuels. Energy per gram of fuel may be less, but the weight of the stove needed to extract the energy from white gas safely is much more.

No moving parts. My MSR Dragonfly is a myriad of bits of plastic, metal and what not. The "repair" kit MSR sells (and I carry) contains as many.

Much less significant flame up risk compared with a pressurized stove.

Spilled fuel evaporates with no residue.

You can always substitute Everclear for your fuel and have options of whether you even want to cook that night, LOL.

Simmer ring works well.

Slow? Yes and no. Much quicker to set up and take down compared to my Dragonfly. I am cooking with my mini-Trangia while my friend is still setting up his stove.

Most hikers just boil water. Why would the Jetboil be so popular if that weren't true? With some exceptions, very little 'real' cooking is done out of backpacks. However, I have baked a biscuit out of my Trangia set many times.

Are alcohol stoves the end all be all stove? No. But for the day hiker that wants a hot lunch or a weekend trip, it is the ticket.

I would suggest you get a quality alcohol stove and use it before you reject them.

Are alcohol stoves the end all be all stove?

No the Svea 123 has that spot.







If you are going to get an alcohol stove, I would make it a Trangia. It’s a great stove.

I have also made several alcohol stoves, but none are as good as the Trangia.

Biggest problem I have found with alco stoves is lighting them in bright light. You can not see the flames, so don't know for sure it is lite 'til you warm up a pinky....

Yes, I've used it down to US zero, but the fuel requirement and the babying was a nightmare. I'd rather run a debris stove at that point. But -30 Canada is -20ish US- what did you do to preheat and prime it, I'm very curious. Becuase I love my Trangia, I'd rather run that anything else, but below zero (about -15 or so for you) I've never gotten it to work worth beans. I get a fire in the center, but it won't pressurize and burn at the jets.

You have the depressed ring around the outside of chimney part, right?

Pour a little fuel in there, that will burn openly and heat it enough get fuel running up through to the jets, and then it lights from there. Sometimes I have warm the entire thing though, as I pointed out with the tuna can stand- just drop in a cotton ball, light it, and when it abot half burned, drop the bottom of the trangia in there. Give it a minute before fueling and priming.

And if won't light, and you need it right now, just toss a match into the main cavity. Won't be as efficient, but you'll be able to at least water.

Hey Climberslacker,

For a good comparison of alcohol stoves and a good review comparing them to other stoves I recommend you check out Colin Flectcher's "the complete walker book IV" from the library and read this alcohol stove review from Art Simon.

I switched to an alcohol stove after one bad experience where a bottle of white gas leaked down one side of my pack. The stench ruined a meal, stuck to my clothes and I hate the smell of gasoline to this day . I always had an irrational fear of the white gas stoves exploding on me anyway. Currently I use a clikstand setup with a Trangia burner as recommended by Art in his review above. And also apparently by Dweste.

As Ironraven mentioned there are limitations. The top 3 benefits that stand out to me are:

1. Quiet burning (no jet engine in the forest)
2. Safe operation (no worries about explosions)
3. Ease of use (just uncap and ignite)

One of the biggest benefits Trangia stoves offer is storage of fuel. Once you are done using the stove you just blow it out, let it cool and then cap it. The vargo titanium stove on the other hand is a bit unstable with larger pots and I always end up wasting fuel without the option to store fuel in the burner. You have to aliquot out your fuel each time which can be tricky. If you are going for a long trip of a week or more the others are right about the weight of the alcohol fuel, and I would recommend the white gas. I use the alcohol stove because most of my trips are about 3 days and I'm not usually in a hurry to get my water to boil 1 or 2 minutes faster.

Cheers,
L

P.s. Hey Ironraven, if you use enough cooking oil you can make a decent pancake on an alcohol stove . In fact with the extra oil you don't even miss the butter .

I prefer hexamine solid fuel tabs, partly because with any liquid fuel I am scared I'll knock it over and set my tent alight.

In my climate the Trangia are easier to light, though; it's warm enough that the alcohol vaporises on its own and will ignite with a spark.

well if there is a risk of burning your tent down, your to close to to the tent. If your cooking inside the tent, well you shouldn't.

i personally have one of most types of stoves, so i can take the best for the job with me. Small butaan/propaan burner in the summer, multifuel when it's cold and the solid fuel and alcohol for short trips.

Let's not be too literal. I don't cook inside my tent, but spilt burning liquid fuel is bad news where-ever it is.

what kind of stove are you using? i personally have never spilt burning fuel and i have use a lot of diffrent models and type of stoves (MSR XGK, Coleman 503, Booster +1, Svea 123R, optimus Explorer, optimus nova, Primus Multifuel, MSR pocketrocket, trangia, folding woodburner, loads of home made alcohol stove's, etc.)

It's ussually a matter of using the stove properly, not letting the top become to heavy, etc.

As with any stove, you need to make sure you have it stable, not top heavy, and make sure that whatever it is resting on won't burn.

Tipping over a lit alcohol stove would be very bad. Just need to be a little extra careful with them.

I've pondered getting one for quick hikes. Typically I carry a Coleman Xtreme stove.

I use mine inside the cooker part of my Crusader canteen set. The stove has been modified (legs removed). I just set it in the integral cup at the bottom of the cooker (which is for Hexamine fuel I imagine), fill the stove, then pour some fuel in the cup around the stove.

I've never had it not light but the flame is pretty poor at first. Eventually the jets fire and I'm in business.

Legs?

Are you using a Vargo or Trangia? My Trangia has no legs, just a nice, flat, cold conduction copper bottom. :P

Vargo. I peeled off the legs and pot stand feet/legs so it would work better in my Crusader.

I have a Trangia too but I put it in storage because it won't fit in the Crusader.

Trangia, as I said. I've never knocked it over, either, but that doesn't mean I'm not concerned about the consequences if I do. I also have a petrol stove, and like Loganenator I'm concerned about it exploding even though I've never seen one explode.

My NION stove just came yesterday and it is much smaller then I expected, I thought it was going to be made out of an old coke can, but instead it was made out of the smaller v8 cans! Everything is great! the stove boiled water in no time flat...I recommend them now! It is really high quality workmanship! I will take it through its paces on my next backpacking trip in August. If you want pictures and I review just ask!

Definitely submit pics and a review... I'm always looking to add things to my gear.

We ALWAYS want pics and reviews...

Well, I got out my stack of stoves from a recent Sportsmans Guide order. Ten stoves, alcohol bottles and windbreak stands, listed as new, but no mess kit, from the Swedish surplus. Also, the stoves turned out to be Svea instead of Trangia (some say they've gotten Trangia). And these stoves have obviously seen some use, although the stands and bottles could almost be new.



I decided to break out the Brasso (thanks to a suggestion here) and clean up the stoves. It lightens and shines quickly, but the stains that are on them are really stubborn, and it takes a lot of elbow grease to get them to fade (some haven't gone away yet).


As I was cleaning it up, I noticed a hairline crack.


And then I started looking closely at all of them, and noticed most have at least that size of crack, others with a more spiderwebbed crack.


Are these par for the course? I'm not upset at the stains on the stoves, because that's not a functional problem, but are these cracks a problem? Would anyone else be concerned by these? I was going to call Sportsman's Guide immediately, but thought I'd try for some feedback from the experts first.

Thanks all

Dave

Forgot to add that out of 9 (one's in my wife's car, and I haven't had a chance to check yet), all but two had at least one hairline crack, and a couple had those spiderweb cracks in several places around the circumference.

I would be less than happy with the conditions of those stoves...

That is putting it mildly...

I just examined the two Svea I had in arm's reach. Neither had cracks. The Sportsman's Guide is a pretty honest outfit, I'd give them a call and discuss options with them.

-Blast

OK, finally got time to call - they're going to replace the faulty stoves once they come off backorder (in September).

Now the hunt for the actual mess kits to fit the stands.


Dave