Cool, bugging out from NYC - one of my favorite subjects.

Do you actually have a dedicated boat for this purpose, or are you a recreational boater on a regular basis.

I have plenty of places to go if we need to leave the city, but I honestly can't think of how I could get my wife and two kids (ages 2 and three weeks) to the places. A boat seems like one of the few that would be reliable, though iffy in a hurricane-type situation.

As noted above, I have two young children to worry about. I think a nomadic existance would not be feasable. We'd need to get somewhere where we could set ourselves up for the duration. Most likley, one of three properties in the catskills owned by family and close friends.

Thanks, I'll do this.

That's a fantastic point and one I completely overlooked. Though I would likely overlook at at the time too and it's likely I wouldn't be able to get a room hehehe.

In my mind driving to the next town isn't bugging out...but I guess by definition it is. For me it's leaving when it's not so easy to leave (traffic, floods, collapsed bridges, civil unrest, quarantine, etc).

As I read my original scenario I realize that I've described what some might consider a nice hiking trip...with that in mind the gear would be similar I think. Not nearly as complex as I'm making it out to be in that context until you throw in the variable of how long will you need to/want to sit there.

I have some nightmares about leaving NYC. One of my big fears is what if all the worst cases scenarios about Cumbre Vieja are true. What if a huge mountain really does slide off the Canary Islands and into the Atlantic? In my thinking, this is one of the worst scenarios for NYC. Predictions have us underwater in 7 or so hours. The boat is probably not going to help you, unless you really can get it into Long Island Sound or the Atlantic. Bugging out, tough by any method, but cars may not get you far enough, fast enough and without running empty. Long Island simply may be awash, almost all of it.

So, my way to go is train. If the announcement has just come out, and the mountain is now in the sea. MetroNorth, here I come, NOW. Cram me into the first train I can get on the Harlem (preferably) or Hudson lines, and I am off. I'll get out North of White Plains. If I get forced into a Hudson Line train, I want to stay on until Garrison. Peekskill might be OK, but Indian Point is right there.

A boat can work, but if you are heading North, then you have really few places to stop for quite a long way, if you want to avoid people or camp for a night. You can probbaly stop on the Jersey shore from about the GWB to a few miles below the Tappan Zee, but you will be right on the river. You are not likely to scale the Pallisades. After that, you need to get close to Bear Mountain before you can stop again without meeting people or to camp. Once past Bear Mountain, your options get better. Bannerman's Island south of Newburgh might be a secure spot for a while. It's big, popular to visit for kayakers, etc., but won't get many people. From Newburgh, you are about 20-30 miles or so from your spot 75 miles north of the City. Kingston is 80 miles up from the Battery. There is an Island jsut south of Kingston in the middle of the river.

If you want to head up the East River, timing is everything, unless you have a motor. A small motor vessel can make it up the river at any time, jsut be careful with traffic between the 59th St. Bridge and until you are past the Triboro Bridge. Without a motor, you are only moving with the tide. 4-5 knots of current can take you pretty far during a 5-6 hour tide. You might be able to take a break at North or South Brothers Islands, althought they are close to Rikers. From there, the next relatively uninhabited Island is Harts Island, the last part of NYC, and where Potter's Field is located. Then you are in the Sound.

I heard yesterday about a hurricane that passed over the Hudson River in 1960 or 1961. The U.S.C.G. sent boats north to get out of the way. Hurricane models were not so good about predicting paths, and when the boats got to Tarrytown, the storm was on the boats, with ten foot seas. I was told it was tough keeping the boats off the Tappan Zee Bridge, according to what one of the then Quartermasters told me last night.

Bugging in is a much better option, and transportation stinks. But if you might want to leave, leave ASAP.

As I got it off track, back on.

Isn't the idea that we should be prepared to be nomadic with the stuff that we are capable of moving? But as prepared as we might be to do that, shouldn't we seek to become stable and set up a new home for ourselves, for as long as it needed?

Being nomadic makes sense if you are moving on to use resources in a new area, after they are no longer available in a former location. If you need to follow the herds of bison, or any food, or better weather, than you need to do it.

But don't most of us we have homes that are solid, good shelters and not capable of moving. Don't most of us have more clothes than we can carry, nevermind adding food, etc. to it. Isn't the general trend of humanity to set up a permanent residences and become part of a community? If you find all you need to survive in one location, why leave it?

Finally, aren't those who live a nomadic lifestyle people who have learned and been taught how to do so most of their lives? I think if I was asked to return to and live a nomadic life, whether as a reindeer herder in the North, follwoing the herds of bison, or packing it on a camel across the desert, that I would only make it if someone who lived that way already took me and taught me how to live that life.

Much of what is done here is planning to achieve self-sufficiency. This crowd does not seem to plan on waiting for walmart or fema to provide the survival wherewithal, or to look for refugee camps.That seems to require that we plan to be self-sufficient for a while, sheltering in place. Alternatively, if we plan to bug-out, we need to have a destination, or several destinations. Importantly, the folks at the destination have to be willing to receive us-otherwise, it is not a bug-out plan, it is an invasion plan.
Being nomadic sounds a lot like being a refugee or an invader, since our new nomads will be practicing their skills in other folks back yards. One could plan for a defense in depth approach, with supply caches, vacation homes, friends and relatives at varying distances and directions from home. Survival planning is then better defined-you pack whatever you need to get to the next waypoint. This requires some resources-money if the cache is going to be a self-storage facility, or friends and relatives willing to receive you. The alternative is to think about heading north into the Catskills or Adirondacks to live like Jeremiah Johnson. I spent most of my life in the Adirondacks, and many folks up there have little interest in receiving refugees/strangers/nomads from the big apple in the event of catastrophe. Some communities near New Orleans established defensive perimeters to repel refugees after Katrina. I fear that the performance of my former neighbors would be similar in some, perhaps many, cases.

Modularizing your BOB stuff might be helpful. Its a little more prep work but it would allow you to re-adjust your gear in less time depending on the scenario.

A business associate of mine who has a similar store in a different town - still in the Sierra Foothills recently found out first hand what happens when things go ugly quick.

His community had a large forest fire brake out causing the evacuation of the town. He could not believe how fast the community broke down. All routes out of town were grid lock, all local gas stations ran out of gas within a day, vehicles ran out of gas on the road further backing up traffic - and cars, trucks, rv's etc were littering the side of the road where ever they ran out of gas.

He is now quickly realizing why everyone should have a 72 - 96 hour BOB and ample gas reserves.

He also realized how timing is everything - had he chose to go at the early end of the fire starting he could have been well away from the gridlock by the time the masses decided it was time to leave. As it was, he was very lucky. He was stuck with little supplies, 1/2 a tank of gas, and no way out of town. Winds died down, humidity went up, and the fire was 85% contained yesterday. His home was saved, his business too.

He is now looking to become prepared - and with a nudge from me, he will hopefully be a member of this site soon.

In regards to Bugging Out of New York City, I have to add some comments for all New Yorkers to consider:

1) The NYC Evacuation Plan from the late 70's and early 80's (I left in 1981), was an impossible plan designed to evacuate the City in 24 hrs before an expected ICBM attack.

2) Of all of the ways and means to leave the City, using your own boat is the most viable and would be the quickest for an escape and if it has quarters onboard, you've your own motel room/camper with you.

3) If the vessel is large enough for Coastal Waters, your best defense in case of a Tsunami Warning (7 hrs) would be to set sail immediately to a point a few miles east of Ambrose light (just east of the Continental Shelf) which will have you avoiding "the wave".

4) After the Tsunami Wave has passed, you could then proceed northward to enter the Long Island Sound from the East and then proceed slowly to some of the ports along either shore to find a sheltered cove or bay to anchor out in for a few days to let outside help arrive in the area. OR...

5) "Mill about smartly" for approx 24 hours off shore before proceeding up the Hudson River to any location from Poughkeepsie to Albany. Poughkeepsie is the dividing point between the Hudson River outflow and the Tidal forces (Poughkeepsie is the highest point of tidal influences). Anchoring out of the way (just below the lower point) at West Point might be the perfect place to await for outside resources/help to arrive before the time has arrived to try going back home.

6) Being at West Point (or Saugerties) would get you access to clean drinking water, emergency rations, and other gov't resources. I mention Saugerties because there is a small USCG ANT Team stationed there. Port Hudson is another good destination to consider as to where to stop/dock afterwards.

7) If you anchor out, your security considerations would be greatly simplified. This works even better if you have a small raft or dingy to travel from ship to shore and return.

8) With a boat, you can also, basically, relocate to another location to make a home either by sailing north to Lake Champlain, west to the Great Lakes via the Erie Canal, or back to the coast to head north or south. The coastal routes will surely provide only ports that have also been wiped out, whereas by heading west, you can get to unaffected areas and even get access to the Mississippi River via the Chicago Sanitation Canal and Illinois River.

9) If you put in a little thought, resources, and elbow grease; then your boat can be capable of radio (VHF-FM, AM, FM, XM/Sirius), cellphone, T.V, and internet access.

10) Summary:
I think having a boat with a cabin will provide the best Bug Out means from NYC.

A sailboat would be the most versatile. You would need to know how to sail to maximize it's endurance.

IMO, proper outfitting would include basic navigation capabilities including a GPS, VHF-FM radio transceiver, T.V receiver, AM-FM radio receiver, cell phone, and internet access. Notice that I said nothing about a shortwave set, this could cause you problems with being commandeered by any 1 of various authorities.

Your best escape route is to go east past Ambrose Lighthouse and the Continental Shelf and then head inland AFTER the backwash has stopped. Your post incident options would increase then.

Anchoring out provides greater security than docking somewhere.

An interesting perspective. We've always planned on a 'shelter in place' situation and if we loose the house doing a fall back to our RV. I keep it full of fuel and semi-prepared so we've got someplace to go if we loose the house. It's only a couple of miles away and I can walk to it if needed. The storage site has manual 'emergency' doors so I can always get out if necessary. Give us two or three hours and I can have it totally stocked and we roll away to anyplace we need to. If I have to just go - we can do that and 'stock up' at the Wally World in the next town or even 2 - 3 hundred miles down the road. Think of it as the ultimate BOB on wheels.

We had to do a grab it and go once when my mother-in-law got very ill and from leaving home to get it to rolling out for Iowa it took under an hour. With all that said, I still keep a BOB in my vehicle that I would only have to 'add' water to and scrounge some food to be set for several days in most any conditions.

Our friends have a cabin a hundred miles or so away to the east, we've got relatives to the south, friends to the west and north so having the RV is a real boon to our planning.