Hey all,

This is my first post here. I've long been interested in the subject of survival and this weekend I will be venturing on a hike into our local mountain range.

I naturally reached for my PSK which I have been building for some time... but then I paused to think about it.

We will be hiking (around 24kms round trip) so naturally I want to be as light as possible. My kit (which fits into a Otterbox 2000) will add weight to my already heavy pack.

Reason I hesitated is I will already have a lot of the items in my PSK on me, such as fire-making equipment, flashlight, knife, whistle, etc.

So its a quandary. I want to be prepared but for practical purposes need to keep it ultra light.

I therefore wanted to ask members here what they thought a 'bare bones' PSK should consist of.

Out of interest, these are the items I WILL have with me:

Silva storm lighter (similar to Brunton Helios)
Mini-Bic (as back-up)
SAK One hand Trekker
Gossman PSK fixed blade (back-up)
Novatac 85P CR123a LED flashlight
HDS 42XR CR123a LED flashlight (back-up)
Fox 40 whistle
Boonie hat
Waterproof storm jacket w/hood
Ezbit stove and several fuel tabs
Plenty of food which can last 4 days if necessary (trip is 2 days)
Water is plentiful in the area, with several rivers. Water quality is very good

I will be accompanied by two experienced hikers who are familiar with the area. We will have a map with us.

Anything else I should consider?

Thanks!

Mark

I would suggest the contents of Doug's PSK. Most of us would agree that it contains the minimum equipment. I would suggest throwing in some water treatment tabs, just in case. The weight addition is negligible.

Not familiar with the Gossman PSK. What does it contain?

Definitely a good knife. Worth it's weight in gold, no doubt.

depends on the situation and location. I usually don't even carry a PSK when in stay in the outdoors in the Netherlands. But thats because, the Netherlands in so densely packed, that you can't really get lost or get far from any roads.

So what are you preparing for?

I don't see any first aid supplies. You can either add that stuff to your PSK or carry an extra, ultralight kit. An Advenure Medical Ultralight .3 kit weighs next to nothing, is waterproof, has the basics, and has enough room in the bag to add a few things if you're not happy with what it has.

Personally I carry my PSK in a GSI 420 waterproof case and then carry a supplimental first aid kit (sometimes) in a GSI 840 waterproof case which is just an overgrown AMK UL .3 kit.

Mike H,
The Gossman PSK is a small fixed blade knife.

Buffalohump,
You are missing your own compass and map of the area. Don't assume that you will always be together, a compass is a pretty basic nav tool and many survival situations get a kick start from people (experienced or not) getting lost. I take a small Garmin (Geko 301) GPS too, but that's just me. I don't see a signal mirror either.

DR's PSP is a good thing to have and it contains the mirror, but the button compass in it should be a back-up. A good sighting compass like a Silva Ranger or Suunto MC-2G would be on my list.

I'll +1 on Mike_H's recommendation of a Doug Ritter's PSK as just about the best (IMHO) featherweight survival kit. If you have the extra cash, about 30 to 35 bucks and the time to get one before you go on your hike I'd say get one of those and stash it in your pocket. Its about 4oz. And the size of a slice of bread. Bonus point for if, God forbid, there is a accident and you are seperated from your pack, it will still be with you.
If you are adverse to this I'd say at a minimum to add to what you do have is a compass, some water treatment tabs (just in case) and a "space blanket" for emergency shelter. American Medical makes a great one, I'd suggest with going for the two person one. Not much bigger profile in pocket/pack, can bail out someone else by sharing, can wrap yourself up without stressing the material by making it too taught etc....
Good luck and have fun!
Welcome to the forums new guy!

-Bill Liptak

Thanks for the advice and welcome guys...

Unfortunately the exchange rate and shipping costs has made ordering stuff from the USA very expensive. I have had to cure my very costly knife and flashlight addictions as a result.

So I will be looking to source stuff locally wherever possible. Fortunately we have a very large outdoor industry here in SA.

A signal mirror and compass are definitely two items I will acquire. The compass is easy, the mirror less so, but I'm sure I can rig something similar. I do have water purification tabs so I will add those to my kit. I also have a space blanket so I can add that as well. I do have a small fannypack I can use to put a featherweight PSK together.

The area is remote but cellphone reception can be had in places. We also have a very good mountain rescue operation that covers the area.

What do guys think about rope? Worth the extra weight?

Mark

Depends on the terrain, your skills and what you are planning to do. Also if you take rope, you will need carabiners and other equipment to take maxium advantage of a rope. Or do you mean cord or string? String and cord are always usefull and not that spacy.

I was thinking rope in case someone takes a tumble over the side.

But I guess in that situation you would need something pretty substantial which would definitely push the weight factor up.

I have a 30-40 foot section of paracord I'll shove in to my pack, but it won't be long enough for any serious work.

If by rope you mean para-cord then I'd say yes, 20 to 30 feet or so shouldn't take up too much weight/space. In a pinch you can cut a section off and remove the 7 inner strands for sewing, fishing, lashing etc...
Very versatile for what it is. If by rope you mean actual climbing/rapelling that's a whole other ball of wax, one I am not qualified to give advice on.
One the signal mirror front you can probably find a travelers mirror in a camping section or grooming section that might be small/handy enough to use.

-Bill Liptak

Thanks Bill...

What do you think of polished knife blade? Will that do in a pinch?

The other thing we can do is make a fire.

Camp fires are verboten in the area due to very high wildfire risk factors, so any signal fires would attract attention pretty fast.

Welcome to the forum, buffalohump.

Will you be doing an overnight? under food you mention 4 days but a trip of 2. Will you be camping "sous les belles étoiles", or do you have something else planned?

Let us know if you have any good gear sites. Might be useful info for some here.

Well paracord won't be suitable to safe somebody, who went over a cliff, not because of the lenght, but the strenght. Paracord is way to weak. It's only strong enough to support up to 550lbs of STATIC weight. Knots can take out half of the static strenght and shock/dynamic loads on will easily exceed 550lbs.

Agreed.

The paracord will be for other stuff, like pack repair or broken bootlaces or what have you.

I don't think we'll be able to take proper climbing rope.

Mark

Thanks!

Its two nights. First night we spend in a campsite, second night we spend in a cave which is a 12kms hike to reach. So its around 25 kms two ways.

Its not a major march but its a fair whack plus its mid-winter so it will get to around 2 degrees celsius at night.

We will have food for two days but it can be stretched to twice that in an emergency.

As far as gear sites go... this one here is pretty good! Otherwise I mostly do forums similar to this one for good gear info.

A polished knife blade can/may work in a pinch....you're talking more about overcomming/adapting a shortcomming rather than planning for an emergency though. People have used cd's and the little hologram on bank cards before with sucess, but again it was crap hits fan, what do I have that I can use vs. IF the crap hits the fan, I have brought along this for just such a purpose.
Not trying to discourage you in the least, it is excellent that you have thought it thru and come up with a "chips are down" solution.
And if you guys bring a portable cd player and some cd's now you know you can use that too

-Bill Liptak

I hear ya...

I'll see if I can find a small pocket mirror in the next few days.

Strange, its the one thing our camping stores don't seem to have, they've got pretty much everything else though...

Mark

Welcome Newguy!

If weight is a problem with your PSK, I think that I might lose that Ottorbox. They are great containers, but (in my opionion at least), very heavy for their size.

An old CD/DVD can be better than nothing as a signaling mirror. Nowhere as good as the real thing, but much better than nothing. I would not rely on fire/smoke for signalling, too many reasons why you couldn't get one going when needed.

If you really think that you need some "rescue" rope, there are many ropes in the 7mm size that can function as climbing/emergency ropes. Here is just one. You are probably metric, so the size (7.7mm) and weight (38 grams per meter) isn't tooooo heavy.

You mentioned plenty of water, but do you drink it straight from the source, or treat it somehow? I don't really know what "quality is good" means, when it comes to actually drinking it. I don't see you boiling much on an esbit stove, and if fires are a no-no, boiling that way is out also. So, does anyone in your group have a filter of some type?

Have a good trip! Pics are always welcome...

Camping in a cave sounds a good place to test out firemaking skills whilst not being too much of a risk.

You can get a small mirror in a metal compact in the make up dept of most stores. They are really light and take up almost no room and you could keep a small sewing kit or fishing kit in them. they are real handy and pretty durable. It would also be great for keeping water purification tablets in.

Thanks OBG!

Yes, that thought has occurred to me. I have a couple of ditty bags that could work well, allowing me to take the whole bangshoot with me. Failing that a Ziplock would do it.

I am going to make a concerted effort to find a small 'vanity' mirror to take with. A signal mirror and compass are both lacking in my PSK!

The water is pure mountain spring water of far better quality than what comes out of our taps. To be doubly safe though, we will only tap fast moving streams.

I do have purifying tabs though that I can add if necessary but the water is considered to be good to go straight from the source.

Redundancy has its place ...but I feel for you when you're already looking at a heavy load.
BUT ..with that said ...its hard for me to give up the backup capacity.
And tossing your PSK into the pack with everything else ...brings up one facet of the personal PSK concept that I try to consider ...and that is not having all my eggs in one basket.
I would try to minimize my PSK and package it in such a way that it could be on my person at all times ... in a cargo pocket or on my belt, etc. The idea being you always have when you take off your pack. MOre than one survival story has started with a trek away from camp to get water slip and fall slide down a hill blah, blah blah.
Your BEST survival tools are the one you have on you. Obviously you can't have everything on you all the time ... BUT a minimalistic few key items can make a dire emergent situation much more tolerable and thus potentially survivable.

If you can find a good sighting compass many have very good mirrors in them. Of the two compasses I mentioned my favorite is the Suunto MC-2G. You should be able to find something similar in SA.

I echo Hacksaw's recommendation of a small FAK. Do you have that planned to be in a pack or on your person?

A good sighting compass makes a fine signal mirror. I've put away both my signal mirrors in favor of my Suunto.

actually, that rope is so small because it is used for a special tecnique in climbing were you use two ropes instead of just one, so it still wouldn't be safe to use alone, you would need to carry two, and the gear for two ropes...but I guess if you had to, you could use it to rescue someone, but I wouldn't like to be the one using it....just isn't safe enough.

Welcome to the fire newguy!!

Welcome Buffalohump! It seems like everyone has supplied you with good advise, so I don't have much to add. Of course, that won't stop me from giving advise anyway.

What sort of elevation change will you be dealing with? Will it be very steep or more gradual? I don't know what sort of shape you are in, but excess gear weight is brutal in the mountains. Definately replace the Otter box with ditty bag(s). Will you be using a sleeping pad? Closed cell foam or self-inflating? The self inflating are comfy, but the weight is a killer. Thermarest makes a great 14oz z-fold pad that is much better for hauling up a mountain.

Don't cut vital gear just because it's heavy, but definately take weight into consideration. Better yet, load up all your gear then start climbing stairs.

-Blast

Hey welcome to the forum Buffalohump,

I agree with cajun that you should have the basic essentials in your pockets redundant with your backpack. Some situations may leave you without your pack. Most of the essentials have been outlined already. Making a minimal rain resistant shelter (plastic 50 gallon drum/barrel liners), Purifying water (tabs or iodine + container), making fire (magnesium block + striker), orienteering (compass), signaling (mirror) and basic first aid.

Cheers and good luck,

Take a look at our equipment list for our 100 Kilometre Survival Challenge, you might get some ideas. It is for a 5 day trip so we will have a bit more than you, but no more food. Hundred-K Survival Challenge Equipment List

I organize a group of about 1300 backpackers. I get asked this question all of the time. Thus I have created this thread on my message board. Pictures and explinations included.

Here is what I use at a minimum you of course would need more food:

http://backpackers.meetup.com/114/messages/boards/thread/2281318

Cameron

Go buy a woman's compact makeup mirror that has the face powder in it. I'm sure any chemist/pharmacy/store will have those in abundance. Strip the powder out and use it as a small FAK.

Leave your planned itinerary with someone you trust. A photocopy of a map with your planned route highlighted is best. If you are considering some side-hikes, include that info too ("We MAY explore this side trail if time allows"). Add to the map your planned times and other important details. When you expect to leave the trailhead, arrive at the cave, return to the trailhead, the license number of your car, who you are hiking with, etc. Maybe even a list of the gear you are carrying so they can estimate your level of preparedness. Make sure your trusted person knows who to call (rescue group - include contact info) and how soon after you're overdue to call them.

You've heard enough about mirrors. :P

Space blanket. Heat sheets are better but probably harder to find there; 2-3 large liner bags will do if you have nothing else.

Dental floss. Maybe a meter or two of wire, and/or zip ties.

Spare socks.

Good pair of tweezers, or better a small pair of needle nose pliers with wire cutters. (Since you are carrying a SAK.)

Buffalohump, nice lights. Milkyspit (Scott) over on CPF does a wonderful Seoul P4 mod on the HDS. My Basic42 is a whole new light. Of course, if you're into modding you could do it yourself, there's lots of instructional threads.

May I ask, what is a "Bear Scare"???

Hey,

Its gonna be a fairly gradual upward move. Not sure of the exact elevation we'll achieve but the air will definitely be thinner.

I have almost finished loading my pack and its gonna be weighty. Its an 80L bag and its almost full. Unfortunately my sleeping bag is hollow fibre not down so its fairly heavy at around 2,5kgs (approx. 5,5lbs.)

The sleeping mat has a foam inner and can be inflated as well. It weighs around 1,1 kgs (2,4lbs).

We plan to take it easy and have one whole day to do the 12kms (7,5 miles) so slow and steady wins the race. I figure I'll need every rest opp I get!

Hey,

Thanks! I did speak to Scott about his mod but decided to keep it standard for now. It makes a good companion for the Novatac, which I just received the other day.

Mark

Hey,

Thanks for the advice. The area is very big with hikers so they have a registry you have to fill out at the start-point where you give them your itinerary and they record details of everyone in the party (down to pack colours, etc). I also plan to leave a copy of the route and contact details of the registry office with my wife.

Hey,

Thanks for the link! Very useful info there...

I need to get more polyester clothing, I have way too much cotton.

I do have a good rain jacket and down vest though (North Face).

Its winter here though, so rain is very unlikely. The forecast for the weekend is good... and hopefully accurate!

Mark

Sounds great, I'll check it out!

Seems like your pack might be already pretty heavy... The Otterbox itself is kinda heavy for what you will be doing, I would just place my PSK items in a freezer Ziploc bag.

I don't think two flashlight are required either, or at least, make one of those a headlamp so you can work or hike hands-free after the sun goes down.

Have fun!

My pack is too heavy! I filled most of it last night and I had the fear when I lifted.

Tonight I plan to strip it to the bone. Zip-Loc bags will be used wherever possible to reduce weight. Got a few other ideas as well for reducing the load.

I just wish I had the cash right now to get some non-cotton base layer items, as cotton weighs a ton and of course is the worst thing for moisture retention, etc

The problem is the bag itself is quite heavy. Its a good bag, but not designed for ultralight hiking.

My sleeping bag is also not the lightest one around...

Now that is a place that has thought things through! What a simple and great idea.

Glad to see that you are very prepared for this!

How much water are you carrying, if any? I would fear how heavy it would be if you needed to carry all of your water in.

What type of food are you packing in?

Start with the heaviest stuff and see what you can strip down.

Bear Scare in my experience is slang for bear deterrent products like bear bangers or bear spray. These days it's almost always used to refer to bear spray.

I have a 1 litre aluminium water bottle, as well as a 1L Nalgene which is currently filled with energy bars and other food items.

However, I think I'm going to ditch the nalgene to save weight and pack the bars in a zip-loc.

Food is nuts, energy bars, chocolate, jerky, tea/coffee, couple of hard-boiled eggs, wheat crackers, liver spread, apples, and a couple of high carb pre-cooked meals that I will heat up.

That is what I would guess too...

I have run into your concerns of redundancey before with my own Survival kits. So I have changed my way of thinking when it comes to gearing up. I like to Hunt, I like to Hike, and I like to camp, but NO ONE Kit is just right for all three (for me anyway) Now I have a couple drawers full of "survival gear" out in my shed. I have a Go-lite Rush that I hike & scout with that has it's own small amount of gear in, and a hunting bag that has it's own amount of base gear. Then I add or subtract gear as needed to tailor my pack for what I am doing.
I started feeling really stupid carrying around 4-5 pound of gear to go scouting less than a mile from my house. It just doesn't make sense. But other times I may be camping 2-3 miles from Anything, and want more capability in my set up. The other point is, if you are trying to go light, you don't want to carry 3 knives, 5 different ways to make a freaking fire, 4 compasses, etc, (lol ) Thats what I do, just a though.

"... less than a mile from my house. It just doesn't make sense..."

Actually, it might. Depending on the terrain, and possibly other factors. Accidents can happen anywhere, anytime, to anyone. You might not need to build a fire, shelter, boil water, etc, but you might very well become injured, and not be able to walk home. So you could need to summon aid/make yourself visible/be located. At least a whistle and mirror could come in handy. Plus of course a small first aid kit...

I agree with OBG. If you have done all the weight-saving tricks, then 4 or 5 pound of the right gear may not be too much, weigh it against the likely risks and how you wish to be able to respond to the "unexpected."

Going light or keeping it minimal is one goal. I suppose the ultimate is to walk naked into the world. If all goes well and lucky for you, you do not need a thing but your winning smile. I think I see the outdoor equivalent of this approach occasionally in some of the ultralight backpacking and trail-running discussions.

Being prepared for everything, everywhere, all the time is another goal. I suppose the ultimate is to live “escaping and evading” when you go on foraging runs and spending most of your time hunkered down in a remote, secret, self-contained bunker hidden from the world surrounded by mazes of overlapping defense screens of explosive devices and weapons. If the world never detects you again, I suppose you “win.” I think I see the outdoor equivalent of this approach occasionally in some of the survivalist discussions.

I think most of us find out comfort zone somewhere between those extremes based on our work and family circumstances, our budgets, and our risk tolerance. From this we express our sense of what is appropriate. It is no wonder there is a lot of variation in what particular stuff we think we should bring along to keep it “minimal” in any particular situation.

Perhaps there is a layered approach of preparedness. Perhaps as real world requirements increased, more layers could be added in response. Each layer might be a module.

If we generally agree on what a categories should be addressed in decent urban EDC, for example, then perhaps we could agree that this is the irreducible minimum - you shouldn’t leave home without it. Maybe this is module 1. Perhaps we could agree this stuff should be comfortably tucked away in your normal attire so that it is both unobtrusive and always with you.

Perhaps we could agree on what categories should be added or upgraded to turn your urban EDC into a decent outdoor EDC. Don’t leave camp without it. Maybe this is module 2. Perhaps we could agree this stuff should be as unobtrusive as is comfortable to you and should leave you “hands free.”

Then perhaps we could discuss the appropriate kit for ventures of varying duration, in varying seasons or conditions, and those with goals different than just covering territory on foot, such as fishing or photography, etc. For each there could be a discussion of a reasonably minimal amount of gear.

OBG use the whole quote. "It doesn't make sense to carry 5 lbs of gear", when there is a 99.9% chance I will never need it. I didn't say I don't carry anything. My light pack includes two lighters, knife, button compass, AMK HeatSheet, Utility Cord (20'), tinder, whistle, & emergency Meds.

Even if I break my leg in the woods a mile from home, I can stay warm, Dry, Blow on a whistle, and even take two Vicoden for the pain, until the paramedics arrive!

dweste,

Very well put!!

I backpack in Florida. To sort things out I allow redundancy but I group stuff into "Using" vs. "Survival" gear.

I limit my survival gear to a small AMK pouch that can fit in my pocket. When I'm hiking, the pouch is in my backpack, but when I set up camp, I put it in my pocket. That way, I'm never without survival gear even when I go to dig holes in the woods.

Minimal Kit 2

"Using" gear

Medical
- personal meds for duration
- glasses
- toothbrush
- floss
- toilet paper (and Wipey-Wipes)

Shelter
- hammock (Mosquito)
- 8 x 8 tarp
- poncho
- poncho liner
- 2 x 3/8 foam pads (20 x 36 inch)
- 2 x tree straps
- ridge line
- 4 x tarp ropes
- bug juice

Clothing
- boonie hat
- nylon shirt
- cotton T-shirt
- nylon pants
- underwear
- bandanna
- Teva Hurricane sandals

Fire
- BSA Hot Spark
- tinder

Signals
- cell phone
- 1 Photon LED
- 1 wristwatch and compass

Water
- 2 x 1 L pop bottles
- titanium cup

Food
- energy bars for duration

Tools
- Fallkniven F1 fixed
- SAK Trailmaster folder

"Survival kit" gear

Medical
- 2 bandaids
- 1 triple antibiotic packet
- 4 ibuprofen
- 2 benedryl
- 1 toothpick
- SAK classic
- 2 moleskin pads

Shelter
[none]

Fire
- SparkLite kit
- MiniBic

Signals
- signal mirror
- whistle

Water
- 20 x MP1 tabs
- 1 L fish bag

Food
[none]

Tools
- 2 x 10 ft extra paracord (separate)
- sewing kit (inside SparkLite box)

Looks like a great kit!

I transferred my PSK into a Zip-loc and I will take it with me. I left the wire saw out and swapped the Fenix E1 for a fauxton. Lighthound.com give these fauxtons away with orders over $20 that put out a killer amount of light.

The fauxton is great cos you can wear it round your neck and it weighs nothing. I'm gonna leave the Novatac behind as the HDS has a clip which allows me to attach it to a cap, whereas the Novatac doesn't.

I also put the dry food into zip-locks instead of tupperware containers and swapped my towel for a smaller one.

Its made a difference, for sure. I also have more space now.

Zip-Locs are great!