We work and live in, and being that DW works in Times Square, while I work near Ground Zero. So, it's not a totally wild idea that that one of us might encounter some nasty stuff in the air, because of a dirty bomb or some other effort at a type of terrorist NBC attack. I know surviving something like that is going to depend on a lot of things, like where it is, where we are, what is is, etc. I also know that having nothing that might assist in surviving such an incident is just not me. Ultimately, I think the ideal scenario puts us someplace with full protective suits and masks, but short of that, what are the best options?

It seems to me gas masks can be had for a few hundred, or on the cheap, but of questionable age and condition and fit. Suits could be improvised, perhaps from cheap PVC rainsuits and duct tape.

Right now, I've given to DW, not sure she carriers it, and I pretty much EDC a Technon Breath of Life See: http://www.technonllc.com/pd1 If I do not have it with me, it cannot do me any good, right? I do not see myself EDCing any suit or a gas mask, but I've been tempted by some of the cheap gas masks.

Well, if you've never tried the MOPP gear, or hazmat suits, you might be surprised how fast you'll sweat out by trying to have a full get-up. I don't know how well PVC suits and duct tape would work for keeping you clean, but I can assume that, after a few hours, you'd be dead from heat stroke, unless it's the dead of winter. If, or course, you didn't die in the first few minutes while you're fiddling around with duct tape sticking to your rubber gloves.

As for gas masks.... I'm no expert there. But, if you go and buy one, better get LOTS of filters, since they only last a set amount of time. You better learn how to change that filter without exposing yourself to whatever you're protecting against. You also better buy some canteens with the nozzle adapter so you avoid the heat stroke mentioned above.

YMMV, but it doesn't seem practical to me. Just as an aside, I have seen the charcoal lined suits at various surplus stores/websites, if you're really hell-bent on buying something for an NBC environment.

My idea is not for continuing to stay in an NBC environment, just having protection that will buy some time, an hour maybe two, to get out.

I've worn PVC and other suits to know the heat is a big problem.

the fact that you ask these questions and think that a PVC suit could be a substitute, indicated to me that you really shouldn't buy these things. Really PVC is not a chemical and gastight material. If you want a decent (relatively) inexpensive suit, get a gas-tight and chemical resistant suit. Like Tychem TK or Tyvek Pro-tec F. (or something like)

First of all you have to carry these stuff with you anywhere and know when a CBRN has occurred for it to be useful. Generally people don't carry these things or don't know when a CBRN incident has occurred. Secondly when a CBRN incident has occurred, GET OUT. Don't stay, GET OUT or take shelter. You also forgot to mention decontamination, which is just as important. No suit is going to protect you when you been contaminated.

If you want to prepare for a CBRN incident, first learn about wind directions, how to recognize a CBRN occurrence and how to act when you have been contaminated. Than a few small items would help, like a N100 mask (stops most particles from dirty-bombs, smoky-bombs and biological hazards from being breathing in), soap, towel, spare clothing packed in a vapor/gas tight bag. (Tychem TK bags are available) The rest is just not practical to carry.

I've given this some thought as well, as I work right above Grand Central Station, with my wife about ten blocks north of me (though currently out on maternity leave). As I've noted before, most of my preps are built around the idea that I'll need to walk home to Brooklyn after any incident.

I figure an actual nuclear detonation in Manhattan and all bets are off - any reasonable sized device and I'm in the blast, flash, or overpressure radius and I'll get no warning. thus, I don't worry about it. (Well, I worry about it, but I don't seriously prepare for it)

Dirty bomb is, in my mind, the most likely NBC scenario we might face. My research suggests that in most cases, if you survive the initial blast (again, no warning, so a matter of luck to a large degree) you're likely to be OK. The thing you don't want to do it breath in radioactive dust from the blast. Thus, I keep N95 dust masks on hand. I actually used a dust mask after the steam pipe explosion last year (you can search the archives for my longish write-up of my experiences that day) I suppose some goggles might be handy to keep dust out of my eyes as well. I'll have to look into that.

I have not come up with a good answer to dealing with chemical contamination. Maybe assume that the chemical agent is heavier than air and try and bug in on a high floor of the office building for a few days? I could get 40-stories up pretty easily. No idea how I'd figure out that I needed to do that, however.

Anybody know what the gas masks are that are issued to regular NYPD patrol officers and subway workers? I've often wondered what they are designed to protect against. They are worn in a bag hanging down from the belt with a strap around the thigh and started to appear shortly after the 9/11/01 attacks. I commute by subway, and might want to protect myself against the same thing the city protects its own workers against. then again, I might want more protection!

That said, I don't see a chemical attack in the subway working out well for anyone caught in the danger zone. I just don't see me calmly donning my gas mask while everyone around me calmly dies. I suspect I'd be fighting for my mask the minute it comes out of my bag.

I'm intrigued by the Breath Of Life mask, Dan, for smoke protection. Do you find it easy to carry?

Well it will protect you from breathing particles, it will not protect you from the radiation it self (will build up on/in the mask) and it will require proper handling and decontamination. So toss in soap, towel and spare clothing in a gastight bag.



There are way to many chemical agents, all with different properties. Some are heavier than air, some lighter. Some will be blown away by the winds, some are nasty stuff which can stick for weeks.



You probably won't know your in a chemical attack on time, to put on the mask. Well maybe you will get the mask on, but by that time you probably to late.

The Breath of Life mask is really nothing to carry. The package is relatively square, slightly longer in one direction than a Papermare Flair pen, and slightly shorter than the same pen (the pens are on my desk). The package is probably about 1/4 inch thick. Weight is 1.3 ounces, just weighed on the mailroom scale. It's like carrying a padded envelope that's about 5 inches by 5 inches.

As far as a nuclear blast, I'm kind of with your thinking as far as preparing for it. I've read some, but know it won't be easy.

The Breath of Life offers some protection from fire fumes and NBC elements. But it's a filter in a hood, and that's all it is. If you are in a fire with no oxygen, you'll still suffocate with it on.

A dirty bomb is my worst survivable fear. Staying put and awaiting the clean up would be a good plan, if you were out of the areas of immediate danger. If you cannot, get out and then get clean ASAP.

I'm always interested in new protective products. Just quickly scanned the website for this Breath of Life mask. From what little I've read, this seems more like what I'd call a general purpose "escape mask". There's nothing wrong with that, if you keep its limitations in mind.

It will filter a lot of acrid stuff in smoke, but apparently not carbon monoxide, so that makes it not a great smoke hood, if that's a big thing you're worried about. There's also no mention that the hood itself is heat resistant. I'd hate to have this hood "shrink wrap" itself onto your head when exposed to a burst of high temp air.

Although it does filter various chemicals and biologicals, it doesn't seem to really be designed as NBC protection so it's not necessarily great at that either. It only has a 1.2 mm activated charcoal layer. I'm not familiar with the materials in the other layers.

It seems to be an OK product. No better, no worse than many other "escape masks" out there. From what I've seen, you generally need to purchase both a smoke hood and a separate NBC mask to get decent respiratory protection against both situations (putting aside the issue of protecting the rest of your body).

I personally wouldn't bother with NBC. The biological/chemical threat at least really requires you to be aware of the problem before it happens. Take the sarin attack in the Tokyo subway. I have to wonder if it really would've changed the outcome at all for those riders if they all had masks on them? I doubt it. For one thing, no one is going to have the foggiest clue what is going on even while people are dropping like flies so I think pretty much 100% of the people still would still have been exposed even if they had the masks.

If the authorities are making an announcement on the PA system about a chemical/biological attack, then you know the agent was already released a while ago and if you haven't dropped dead already or been infected already, you're probably in minimal danger where you are, so again, there's not much use for an NBC mask.

From my own experience living in NYC, I'd probably pick a decent smoke hood and keep a decently bright flashlight as far as preparing for a likely "quick escape" scenario, whether from a structure or subway fire. I think fire is a threat that has a decent chance of being experienced by many folks and often provides enough lead time to actually don the mask in time to have it help.

So what is considered a good smoke hood?

The Safe Escape smoke hood is probably the best combination of price and performance out there now. I like the fact that it has an actual flame/heat-resistant hood that you can pull over your head to keep your hair from catching fire or burning your face. There are a number of other smoke hoods that look good, too, but are more expensive.

Another product that someone brought to my/our attention not that long ago is the Xcaper mask. There are a lot of masks with basically the same form factor, but the Xcaper seems to be the real deal because it actually filters carbon monoxide, unlike all the other similar masks that filter soot and some fumes but not CO. It's small, so good for tucking into your purse/briefcase for commuting. It's a tradeoff between size and having a hood and a replaceable filter canister.

Firefighters use SCBA right?

Would a spare air (http://www.spareair.com/) or small pony bottle and some swim goggles work for smoke? It'd fit in a briefcase or small bag you can keep at the office, and might give you some time in case of an office/subway fire, if that's a threat you may face. Nil heat protection though...

Yes, FF's use SCBA, which is a positive pressure system. I assume that spare air would work, IF you had a good seal, and it was a positive pressure flow device. I would assume though that the swim goggles wouldn't work, since you'd have no way to flush the smoke out that would accumulate as you put them on.

Interesting idea but I don't think that would be helpful for long. Anyone who understands pressurized air like a fire fighter, physican, or scuba diver please correct my very basic reasoning here, but I was looking at the Spare Air specs for their basic (yikes, $299!) model and it says it provides 57 "surface breaths" at 1.6L/breath, so that's about 90L of stored 02. If you're really huffing due to exertion or hyperventilating due to extreme stress, you could go through 90L of air in just 2-3 minutes by my reckoning and since there's no re-breathing mechanism, it's all gone at that point.

A few minutes doesn't seem worth it to pay $300 to escape a fire, even if you could make the assumption that you could reach safety in a few minutes from whatever situation you're typically in. A smoke hood that filters CO would provide protection against smoke for a lot longer, for much less money it seems.

Sounds like an emergency rapell system might be money better spent (depending of course on the height of your building. Usless in a subway)...

In the past few months, I've had the opportunity to take the AMA's Basic and Advanced Disaster Life Support classes. This is pretty eye opening stuff. Got to learn how to give smallpox immunizations! But I digress... Summarizing:

Nuclear contamination - This section was delivered by the department head of nuclear medicine. He also gets called out when there is an accident involving nuclear materials in the county. This apparently happens quite often, with traffic accidents being the main cause.

Since the course was mostly for medical personnel, it was stressed that there is no justification for refusing to treat a person contaminated with nuclear material. There is no contamination you can get on you that can injure you in that short a period of time. The trick is to keep it out of you - keep your N95 mask handy. The instructor also carries around a personal set of blockers - Kelp tablets for Iodine, Prussian Blue for Cesium, etc. Be prepared to decontaminate - If hazmat does it for you, you'll wind up naked, hopefully wrapped in a blanket.

Problem with chemical contamination is recognizing the symptoms and having something to counteract it. We learned how to give atropine autoinjectors for nerve agents, but if you don't have any, you may be out of luck. Some of the chems do unrepairable enzyme damage in minutes, so you have that long to treat. Blister agents require decontamination in minutes because the agents fix to tissues rapidly. No antidotes are available, though some things are under investigation, according to the book. No specific antidotes to irritant gasses

One issue we discussed was that hospitals expect hazmat teams to decontaminate chemical victims. However, in Tokyo, most victims of that attack were not totally incapacitated, and transported themselves to the local hospital a few blocks away. The hospital did not identify the agent and did not do any decontamination. Fumes offgassing from the victim's clothing took out a substantial number of the ER staff.

Bare minimum, if you think you've been anywhere near exposure, be prepared to throw your clothing in a sealed plastic bag, and wash down thoroughly with warm (not hot) soap and water. Also, be aware that contact lenses can absorb chemicals, so be prepared to get them out ASAP. I found this out the hard way, while finishing some home built furniture with spray polyurathane.

Our chemicals instructor, who was from a local Hazmat department, said that nerve agent poisoning happens all the time. Farmers work with large quantities of insecticide, which is basically the same thing. He said that post 9-11, many fire depts are carrying atropine autoinjectors.

"...atropine autoinjectors for nerve agents..."

My thigh hurts just thinking of that...

Well there is a hazard of radiation particles builing up in the mask itself, which will become a source of radiation. So don't forget to replace the mask after awhile. it will safe you from a unhealthy dose of radiation near your face.



They don't carry spare clothing for victims? I have been decontaminated three times as a civilian and we always get a pack of replacement clothing.



Well not always with water, some chemicals contamination can be worsed by washing with water. But in generall MOST (not all) decontamination van be done with soapy water. Although you should keep the water temperature in the 25- 35 Celcius zone (depending on the weather conditions). To hot and your pores open allowing chemicals to enter, to cold is bad too...

I'm pretty much in your position. Work a stone's throw from Ground Zero and commute by subway to Brooklyn. Right now all I carry is a couple of N95 masks.Remember the footage of the rolling waves of gray dust as the Towers fell? That's the scenario I envision.

I figure another likely scenarion is a bombing or fire on the subway or some disaster requiring me to exit a building in smoky conditions.I have been toying with the idea of buying one of the smoke hoods mentioned earlier. The one you identify looks pretty good, as well as the one from Aeromedics. The key is that it be light and portable enough that you actually have it on you when you need it.

As far as a suit or gas mask, I've pretty much discarded that idea for two reasons. For one, it is just too bulky to carry around. I carry various files and work related items as well as a small EDC. Much more and I am going to need to steal one of the homeless guy's shopping carts. (Though stashing a suit and gas mask at the office is a possibility.)Secondly, by the time you realize you are under attack and don the suit it may be too late, especially in the case of a gas attack. I think my time would be better spent identifying the source of the threat and heading away from it (preferably upwind).

I would think, looking at it from a terrorist's point of view, the easiest operation to plan and carry out would be a dirty bomb or a conventional (suicide?) bomb. Biological and chemical attack will probably be pretty far down the list because to do it well would be very complicated. It's not easy even for well funded and trained military units. Look at the sarin gas attack in Tokyo. All things considered, the casualty count was pretty low.

Above all, I try to practice what they call around here "situational awareness". Keeping my eyes open to the people around me, danger zones and possible escape routes.

We probably have passed each other on the street.

I remember the clouds on 9-11 well. I was on the phone at the time with my them girlfriend, and she was urging me to leave my office. I am very glad I did not. Many that I know did ended up covered by and enclosed within the cloud. My building was in the cloud, but not much came into our office. Didn't have a mask, but I walked out about 4:30 with a wet t-shirt over my face. That was an unforgettable walk.

I tend to think that potential chemical and biological attacks would be of such a nature that the agents could not travel very far. So long as you were not very close, staying put as I did on 9-11 would probably be a good move. Still, I feel better knowing my wife has a hood. I cannot count on her thinking calmly and makign the right decision, especially if there is a crowd making a wrong decision.

Same thing goes for a dirty bomb detonated in the financial district or next to the Naked Cowboy in Times Square. Actually, even if you or your wife decided to walk around right after the detonation, the realistic danger to you is very low, all things considered. But people will be absolutely freaked out and not walking, but running over the bridges to get out of Manhattan. Like they say, a dirty bomb is primarily a psychological weapon, not a physical one, unless you happen to be physically blown up by the actual detonation (bye, bye, Naked Cowboy...). If you decide to wait it out inside for hours or a day, the air concentrations will diminish significantly and further lessen the already low risk when you finally venture out.

I commented on this particular topic in more depth in the past so I'll just link to that old post . Actually, that was an interesting thread in general so read through the whole thing.

I really wouldn't miss the Naked Cowboy, because I have avoided him to date.

I believe I would rather encounter the Naked Cowgirl...

There are several of those over at the Port Authority Bus Terminal.

You can come to NYC to see her in person, or she has a website: http://www.nakedcowgirlny.com/

Problems with that assumption, is 1: that it depends on what the local hazmat team / hospital district has stocked and 2: It'd have to depend on the scale of the event. Our class was for the local Medical Reserve Corps and for local health service to raise awareness of these issues for mass casualty incidents. They didn't seem to think it was a given at all. We were being warned that it need to be taken into account lest your local news helicopers get prime time video of naked, wet people standing around.



Good point. Our class covered mostly the possible terror attack weapons, not the full range of possible contaminants. Our Hazmat instructor kept reciting "Dilution is the Solution to the Pollution", heh.

No joke! For anybody who isn't familiar with the autoinjectors, (and I wasn't), it consists of two spring loaded syringes that you separately jam into your thigh muscle. The spring plungers take time to inject, and we were instructed to do a 10 second countdown before removing the needle. The smaller injector is atropine, the larger contains 2ccs of 2-PAM Cloride, basically an amount about the size of your thumb.

That's gotta be a long 10 seconds.

And we were lucky. My wife, who hates needles by the way, was in the Navy. In the early '70's. She got picked several times to demonstrate the U.S. Navy's state of the art "anti-nerve gas' fixer-upper for the troops. Theirs consisted of a tube, kindasorta like a mini-toothpaste tube, with long semi-sharp spout/needle. Attached was a long wire to insert down that spout to puncture the seal, (think little tube of caulking). Then jab that spout/needle in to the thigh and squeeze the goodies into you. For some reason she did not like doing that. And it makes the auto-injector sound pretty nice indeed...

I watched the fire guys hose down an elderly couple on the Antelope Valley Frwy one night in Dec. Stripped them naked and blasted them with a two inch line. I gave them a couple of plastic "body blankets" to cover themselve with...