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#135692 - 06/12/08 02:59 PM Importance of just a little bit of preparation, II
Paragon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 231
Loc: Greensboro, NC
While there may be aspects of this story I'm unaware of, there just seem like so many things that could have easily prevented this - a $4.00 AMK Heatsheet, knowledge and a means to build and start a fire, the situational awarness and common sense to have been more preparded for the approaching weather, the list goes on and on...

Three hikers caught in late-spring snowstorm; one dies, two rescued

LONGMIRE, Wash. - An Army Chinook helicopter rescued two hikers Wednesday who were stranded high on Mount Rainier's flank after a late-spring blizzard.

They were picked up about 6:15 a.m. at Camp Muir for a flight to Madigan Hospital at the Army's Fort Lewis, near Tacoma, for treatment or transport to another hospital, Mount Rainier National Park spokesman Kevin Bacher said.

The man and woman had frostbite and hypothermia from being caught overnight Monday in a blizzard, which left the woman's husband dead.

The three had been on a day hike to Camp Muir when they were caught in the storm that dumped 2 feet of snow. Camp Muir is at about 10,000 feet elevation on the 14,410-foot mountain.

Bacher said the three people were experienced climbers and two had reached the top of Mount Rainier before.

Three doctors, clients of a climbing concessionaire in the park, were at Camp Muir with the two surviving hikers, who were suffering from frostbite and hypothermia but were in stable condition, Bacher said.

The three hikers were described as two men and a woman in their early 30s, all from Bellevue, east of Seattle. The dead hiker was the woman's husband, Bacher said.

After a winter of heavy snowfall that forced repeated closure of mountain passes, unseasonably cold conditions have continued long into spring in Washington's Cascade Range. Paradise, the jumping-off point for the trail to Camp Muir, received 2 feet of fresh snow overnight, with 5-foot drifts at the camp, Bacher said.

Bacher said rangers received a call at 3:30 a.m. Tuesday that the hikers were trapped in a blizzard.

Weather prevented a rescue attempt at that time, but one of the hikers reached Camp Muir at 7:15 a.m. The other hikers were found near Anvil Rock, a large outcropping at the edge of the Muir snowfield about 500 feet lower than Camp Muir.

Waited out storm

International Mountain Guides had eight climbing clients and four guides at Camp Muir, while Rainier Mountaineering Inc. had 15 clients and a handful of guides there Tuesday. Both companies said then that their employees and clients were doing well, but hunkered down awaiting better weather.

"I do know it was a tough night up there for the weather, just because of what they were forecasting — high winds and low visibility and snow," said Jeff Martin, RMI operations manager. "Definitely not your typical June weather."

The bodies of two other hikers were found in California's Sierra Nevada backcountry last week.

El Dorado County Sheriff's Lt. Les Lovell said an autopsy performed Tuesday revealed that 70-year-old Thomas Hylton died of a heart of attack on June 2, the day he and 78-year-old Jerome Smith set out for a four-day backpacking trip in Desolation Wilderness just west of Lake Tahoe.

Smith left for help after his friend collapsed but fell down a hillside on his way back to the highway. The sheriff's office said he died from his injuries and exposure to the chilly overnight temperature.

The men's families reported them missing Thursday when they failed to return home to Lincoln, a bedroom community north of Sacramento.
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#135708 - 06/12/08 03:39 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation, II [Re: Paragon]
OldBaldGuy Offline
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Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Ya always have to respect Mother Nature...
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#135714 - 06/12/08 03:53 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation, II [Re: Paragon]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
I'll agree on the many things we don't know yet about the day hikers on Rainier, Paragon, not so much on the elements of preparedness that might have saved their lives. Some things you may not know:

- hikers had been to Camp Muir at 10,000 feet, ferrying up equipment for a friend making a summit attempt. They were not prepared to bivouac overnight. In hindsight, they should have stayed at Camp Muir, where there is a stone shelter, warmth, food, and other climbers staging for the summit, even 3 MDs. They opted to descend, not aware apparently of an approaching blizzard.
- there is no fuel for making a fire on Rainier, not at 10,000 feet. They made it down approximately 500 feet to Anvil Rock, where they encountered high winds and white out conditions. They stopped and built a snow shelter. I don't know what gear they had, but apparently snow insulation / sleeping pads were not available.
- the deceased hiker chose to place his body on the snow beneath the others, insulating his wife and his friend through a long night. By morning hypothermia was evident, and the friend went back up to Camp Muir for help. The hikers were brought back to Muir, but they were unable to revive the husband hiker.

That's about all I know, all from local press and some offline reports. Its a very sad story, and I think the deceased hiker displayed great courage to do what he did, literally sacrificing his life for his wife and friend. I can't second guess their outing without alot more info than has been made available so far. Rainier can turn on the most experienced and well equipped hikers and climbers in a few minutes - more than a heatsheet, I would pray for all hikers to have critical bivouac gear anytime they are on the slopes. My thoughts are with his wife and family right now.

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#135717 - 06/12/08 04:25 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation, II [Re: Lono]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA

Yah, it isn't clear what gear that had with them, but it does sound like they were at least somewhat prepared. Unfortunately, not prepared enough.

Hopefully we will hear more details, but Mt. Rainier can be a very serious place.

As noted above, never underestimate Mother Nature.

-john

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#135721 - 06/12/08 04:44 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation, II [Re: JohnN]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
I think the most dangerous word in english has to be 'experienced.' Walking to the store for milk 99 times makes you experienced in walking to the store. Walking # 100 and not noticing the Goodyear blimp crashing makes you a victim.


Edited by Chris Kavanaugh (06/12/08 04:47 PM)

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#135723 - 06/12/08 05:05 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation, II [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
Like most accidental deaths that occur in nature, it appears that inadequate decision-making, or inadequate information to guide decision-making, was a major factor.

Make a bad enough decision, or a series of bad decisions, and all the equipment you can carry may not save you.

From the initial scanty information provided, it appears they violated a fundamental rule of outdoorsmanship - check the forecast and keep a close eye on the weather.

Outdoorsmen should have good judgment, but where does good judgment come from? Experience. And where does experience come from? Mostly from bad judgment!

Jeff

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#135725 - 06/12/08 05:10 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation, II [Re: Jeff_M]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA

Indeed. The other thing people should consider is even if they had checked the forecast, it isn't always right. Betting your life on a forecast seems to be gambling IMO.

-john

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#135730 - 06/12/08 05:25 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation, II [Re: JohnN]
Jeff_M Offline
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Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: JohnN

Indeed. The other thing people should consider is even if they had checked the forecast, it isn't always right. Betting your life on a forecast seems to be gambling IMO.


" . . . and keep a close eye on the weather."

Jeff

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#135734 - 06/12/08 05:33 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation, II [Re: Jeff_M]
Still_Alive Offline
Finally, I am a
Member

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 119
Loc: Utah
How do Heat Sheets do when laid directly on snow, even in a snow cave? I'm not questioning Paragon's suggestion, but I honestly don't know. Having spent the night inside a tent set up on snow, inside a sleeping bag (with no sleeping pad), I know sleeping on the snow can make for a long, cold night.
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#135741 - 06/12/08 06:05 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation, II [Re: JohnN]
Paragon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 231
Loc: Greensboro, NC
Originally Posted By: JohnN
Yah, it isn't clear what gear that had with them, but it does sound like they were at least somewhat prepared. Unfortunately, not prepared enough.

Hopefully we will hear more details, but Mt. Rainier can be a very serious place.

First of all, let me make it clear that I'm not trying to throw rocks at anyone, imply that they got what they deserved, or otherwise being callous. Terrible things such as this happen, and I suspect most of us that spend time sharing information here are doing our best to insure that we learn from these tragedies.

That said, simply logging into the Mount Rainier website there is a "plan your visit" link that immediately points out the following two items that I believe could have prevented this:

Originally Posted By: Mount Rainier website
Pay Attention to the Weather
Be aware that mountain weather is very changeable. When planning your visit, check the weather forecast. Carry extra clothing, rain gear, and a tent for protection against storms anytime you visit.

Snow will remain at the 5,000 to 8,000 feet elevation well into mid-July.


Originally Posted By: Mount Rainier website
Prepare and Take Care
Bring the Ten Essentials with you and know how to use them. Tell someone your travel plans so they can notify the park if you fail to return. Do not travel alone. If visibility is poor, do not travel at all. Taking these few precautions could save your day...and your life!


Hopefully more details and information will become available.

Jim
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#135756 - 06/12/08 07:03 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation, II [Re: Still_Alive]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
Originally Posted By: Still_Alive
How do Heat Sheets do when laid directly on snow, even in a snow cave?

A heat sheet might prevent melted snow from soaking into your bag and clothing but it will provide zero insulation value.
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"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#135761 - 06/12/08 07:42 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation, II [Re: thseng]
Paragon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 231
Loc: Greensboro, NC
Originally Posted By: thseng
Originally Posted By: Still_Alive
How do Heat Sheets do when laid directly on snow, even in a snow cave?

A heat sheet might prevent melted snow from soaking into your bag and clothing but it will provide zero insulation value.

I would second that opinion.

Just so that it's clear, my intention when I originally mentioned the AMK Heatsheet was to use it as a blanket (windbreak) and not as a ground cloth. While I can only guess, my feeling is that these folks were considerably underdressed for the conditions that they were in.

Jim
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#135763 - 06/12/08 08:08 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation, II [Re: Paragon]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


The other thing that needs to be remembered is that a heatsheet/space blanket typically does very little when used to wrap a person who has frostbite or hypothermia as they are radiating very little energy to reflect back.

They can be used to help increase the efficiency of a fire to warm said person more completely however.

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#135767 - 06/12/08 08:22 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation [Re: Paragon]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Mt Rainier makes it's own weather. It can be sunny at the base
and a blizzard part way up. Like Mt Hood, it is a serious
mountain. No Heet Sheet is going to hold up to the winds or keep
out a blizzard. Sometimes 4 season tents don't survive.

Climbing to camp Muir is
not glaciated and when the sun is out the trip seems a nice long hike as there are no ropes etc. involved.

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#135770 - 06/12/08 08:39 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation, II [Re: Paragon]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
A group shelter such as a Bothy bag will be much more efficient than an AMK heatshield keeping out the snow and wind and is much lighter than any tent.



Terra Nova Bothy bag.

The Bothy Bag comes in various sizes from 2 man to 8 man etc and it has even been known to get a gas stove going in the middle of the huddle for a hot cup of tea.

Lightweight Thermarest seats are also useful.

http://www.thermarest.com/product_detail.aspx?pID=45&cID=4

Of course suitable clothing is critical as well for any weather conditions that could possibly occour.




Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (06/12/08 08:41 PM)

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#135782 - 06/12/08 09:32 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation, II [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Here is an updated press account with some details on the recent tragedy on Rainier. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004472794_webhikers12m.html.

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#135795 - 06/12/08 11:17 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation [Re: Lono]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
Hmm. There is a lesson about down in there too, methinks.

-john


Edited by JohnN (06/12/08 11:18 PM)
Edit Reason: can't spell

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#135852 - 06/13/08 11:07 AM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation [Re: JohnN]
7point82 Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Orange Beach, AL
Sounds like the equipment level could likely be explained by the difference between alpine vs expedition style climbing. I'm guessing the folks here lean toward expedition style. wink
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#136024 - 06/13/08 10:05 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation [Re: 7point82]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"Experienced", in so many cases, seems to mean they got away with making bad decisions multiple times in the past. If you don't have a brain (and use it), experience means diddly squat.

"They knew the weather was getting bad ... They needed to get back to their car and needed to get out."

No, they didn't. The world didn't end when they died/nearly died, so it wouldn't have ended if they were two days getting back to work.

"... the three were about a quarter-mile from Camp Muir when they got lost in the zero-visibility weather ... 'They spent a lot of time wandering around trying to find their way back to a camp or a trail ... But they couldn't find their way.'"

I live less than 60 miles from Mt. Rainier. The weather changes fast, but not THAT fast. Look to see what the prevailing wind is bringing. If you can't see what's coming, stay put. But it was just a day hike, so they didn't bring a compass, or know how to use a compass. No GPS either, I assume. A couple of El Cheapo survival blankets might have prevented much of that moisture from being absorbed into the down garments.

But all these 'experienced' hikers and climbers always want to travel light, don't they? After all, it's only a day hike.

Western Washington has had one foot in winter all spring. Snow was predicted on June 6 (up to two feet) through June 11 in the Cascades. What part of 'check the weather' did they not understand?

Sue



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#136027 - 06/13/08 10:31 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation [Re: Susan]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Susan, an el cheapo space blanket won't stand 70 mile and hour winds. Some don't even stand being unfolded.

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#136030 - 06/13/08 10:49 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation [Re: clearwater]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA

Although I do wonder about the compass thing. It sounds like they were not too far and I wonder if they could have made their way to Muir, even in whiteout conditions with a compass.

Of course w/70 mph winds and whiteout...

It sounds like one of those mini pads could have made a difference too and they are not heavy at all.

As we've seen before, it seems like the difference between survival and not can often be very little.

-john

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#136038 - 06/14/08 12:02 AM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation [Re: JohnN]
climberslacker Offline
Youth of the Nation
Addict

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 603
Defiantly, its amazing how just a little thing can do wonders to help you survive!
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#136133 - 06/14/08 09:59 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation [Re: JohnN]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Here's another article, LA Times with more details.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-hikers12-2008jun12,0,5906441.story

It sounds like the sequence of events was 50 mph winds, then snow, then whiteout, within minutes on the descent. I think its a situation where if you haven't been there you can't quite get it. I've been to 10,000 feet, I've been to Camp Muir, I've been in high winds, I've been in a whiteout, but never at the same time. I can imagine the disorentation, sorta. As the climbing instructor says, people have died just outside the doors at Camp Muir and never knew it.

The Rainier weather I can vouch for though. Lightning storms, winds and snow come from nowhere, unannounced and unpredicted.

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#136134 - 06/14/08 10:26 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation [Re: Lono]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: Lono
. . . The Rainier weather I can vouch for though. Lightning storms, winds and snow come from nowhere, unannounced and unpredicted.
With the nature of that mountain such as it is, this group should have known better. Their over-confidence in their experience did them in. Their experience should have told them they might not make it back to their car, rather than telling them to hurry.
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#136139 - 06/14/08 11:44 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation [Re: Lono]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
From the Article

Quote:
The trio took about six hours to hike the 4.5 miles up the Skyline Trail to Muir, which is roughly halfway between Paradise and the summit. After a brief rest, they began their descent, which normally takes about two hours.

David Gottlieb, the lead ranger who coordinated the rescue, gave this account of the hikers' ordeal:

The group started down the mountain about 6:30 p.m., which this time of year gave them more than two hours of daylight. Light snow was falling; a steady wind was blowing.


This was probably where the screw-up happened. They had left it far to late leaving at 6:30 pm with only 2 hours daylight left. They left themselves no margin for error timewise. This suggests to me that they thought they were more capable than they really were. Considering they took 6 hrs to climb the trail, they should have known it would take at least 3 hrs to decend safely in the same conditions and possibly considerably longer in worsening conditions. I'm also surprised that no one at the camp asked them were they thought they were going so late in the day as well. Not being equipped for an overnight stay at the camp and the possible social embarrasment may have tipped them into making the wrong decision.

Another tragic story.


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#136142 - 06/15/08 12:07 AM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation [Re: Lono]
James_Van_Artsdalen Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Lono

The Rainier weather I can vouch for though. Lightning storms, winds and snow come from nowhere, unannounced and unpredicted.

How good are weather forecasts there? I'm wondering if they just looked out a window and said "looks good to me!" or if there was a NWS forecast of some kind? Offhand it appears easier to find Volcano activity report on St. Helens than to find weather forecasts for any of the mountains.

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#136184 - 06/15/08 06:03 PM Re: Importance of just a little bit of preparation [Re: James_Van_Artsdalen]
AyersTG Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
Been lurking this thread for a bit. First Disclaimer: I am NOT an expert on this mountain...

... but I have co-led a large climb up the Eammons-Winthrop route (7 or 8 rope teams - don't recall exact number). And did a lot of pre-climb training for the noobs on the face under discussion because it is SO easy to get there. Drive to Paradise, walk away from the parking lot, and you're on a big mountain.

Second disclaimer: The outcome was tragic and perhaps involved some selfless sacrifice; I am NOT being post-event critical of the folks involved.

It looks easy from the parking lot at Paradise - and comparatively speaking, it is. Heck, Rainier is not a difficult mountain, relatively speaking. The Muir route starts you out with only a mile vertical left to go (from the parking lot). On a nice day with cooperative snow conditions it's possible to summit without a stop if you're very fit and not afflicted by AMS from the rapid ascent from near-sea-level.

I was always bemused by the huge numbers of folks tramping that route. We joked that if you were to stop to adjust your boot lace, 3 "beautiful people" in neon-colored nylon gear would crampon over the top of your prostrate body. Ah, the picture I'm trying to paint is that the parking lot at Paradise is like a lot of other cool places around the world - things look doable; non-threatening (on a good day), intriguing, "c'mon, we can do this and be back in time for a nice bottle of wine this evening..."

Won't rhapsodize about the weather-making potential of a big coastal mountain (true) and so forth. My point is that one simply should not leave sight of safety (the parking lot / lodge in this case) without everything you need to survive the potential conditions for as long as you potentially could need to. And it must be a conscious habit: What I carry walking away from the parking lot at a MidWest state forest in the summertime is different than what I walk away from a base camp in Colorado in the late fall.

The first principle of Leave No Trace (LNT) is: "Plan Ahead and Prepare." The BSA motto is "Be Prepared". I'm preachy on this (ask my scouts). I've also almost died spectacularly 3 times (very slow learner when I was much younger) because "it" DID happen to me and I was NOT prepared.

I wouldn't focus so much on this or that pet piece of minimalist gear they did or did not have with them. In total, they did not have what they should have had with them. That's what killed the guy who made the ultimate sacrifice for his wife and friend - not the mountain. (Heck, that route is not particularly dangerous as these things go).

Be Prepared.

Regards,

Tom


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