Note to self: In future, don't use phrase "to wit" when replying to "Mike" in "Survival Forum"!

Got it! <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

One question.Most highrises have windows that don't open and are VERY hard to break,thick tempered glass and all.So just how are you planning to parachute or reppel out??

Good Question.

Until I figure it out. I don't know the properties of highrise glass.

Maybe someone can help us out with that one.

Maybe a fire axe?

Maybe spraying it with a fire extinguisher to freeze it and make it brittle?

Maybe a certain tool for shattering glass is needed?

Putting your bosses head though it?

Mike

This is a serious consideration, in the building that I work in, this is further complicated due to the windows being double paned safety glass, plus a sheet of high strength plastic sheeting that is applied to the interior side as added insurance to keep glass from flying around in the event of it breaking. <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Thankfully, I work on the ground floor of this 3 story building, and am generally within 50 feet of one of the main exits. That did not prevent me from recommending the EvacU8 to our safety comittee, and then getting one myself when the idea was initially shot down.

I've seen photos of this stuff on glass where serious bullets were shot at it, and it still did not break. <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Humor & Muse mode on... <img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> hope your bosses have hard and pointy heads and a lot of muzzle energy when they impact the glass. <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Hmmmm, guess that booger ups my plan! I guess a minor's pick or fire axe is plan "B." <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Yep, and what happens to all that glazing when it's broken? Tempered glass can be broken if you approach things the right way - the laminated stuff is going to be really difficult to deal with in some respects, though.

This is not an issue for me (Not in a high rise and my window opens), but if it was, I would go talk to the guys at a commercial glass shop. I could probably get answers at any of the local places, but there is one in particular locally that I would trust to have the absolutely straight scoop. I wouldn't try to do this on the telephone unless you already know the guys - a visit in person, a flattering (and sincere?) interest in getting a "shop tour" and seeing what they do and how they do it, then the pointed (pun intended) question(s).

How serious is this discussion? I've thought of a way to deal with the laminated tempered glass plus possibly the "falling glass" consideration for the same but it would not be an instant breach and it would involve either some power tool investment (faster breach) or tooling investment (slower breach).

Blast-resistant windows (hardened buildings) beyond the laminate mentioned are probably not going to be easy to get questions answered about.

How many folks actually work in buildings above the 5th story? Y'see, that's about where it gets especially tricky in building design & construction from a life-safety standpoint - most Fire Departments don't have access much beyond that from the exterior - that's the real world.

And the other part - as Mike mentioned - "Is the building I work in likely to be a target or collaterally damaged from an attack on a nearby target?"

I have no doubt that this is a very real consideration for some of us - but surely it is a fairly small percentage. Or not - I don't know. My building (when I'm in it) is probably more likely to be struck by a large meteorite and if I can make the grassy area to the West I can probably survive a jump from the top story anyway, albeit probably with some injury... but there are such things as fires and other horrors. I guess I don't feel it merits more thought/effort for me than that - and I've got folks I'm responsible for, anyway. <shrug>

For those who are at risk, my first suggestion is to read the Engineering News Record articles on the WTC 9/11 attacks, read related Code journal articles, and then investigate your means of egress from the various areas of the building you are likely to be in IF something nasty happens. My second thought is that Hikerdon is on-target - high-temp rescue lines for up to a certain height, then escape parachute above that - if you deem the risk to be high. Solving a window problem will be trivial after you do that bit of research - take a Saturday morning at the library for the raw research and another Saturday at your place of work to investigate and note your building's features or lack thereof.

Aside to Mike - not a lot of travel time in a 500' jump, eh? Esp from a helo. Me, too. I think Jump School and JumpMaster training were the only times I jumped at 1,200' - we stayed under 1,000' for tacticals, or so I recall - and I for sure remember the low-altitude jumps! I never jumped with any of your units, although some of your folks jumped from C-130s with me a few times. Enjoyed working with 2 PPCLI off and on over the years - but that was all a long time ago.

Tom

Has anyone had any experience with the ultra thin / light micro line?

By reading all the posts it would seem that a chute might be better from above the 30th or so floor but the static line below. Mike... what do you think is the lowest floor a chute would open from?

One advantage that a rope may have would be that others could use it (Benmann)... would this be posible w/ the ultra thin line? Or would it simply cut / burn there hands causing a fall? Benmann?

Ayers,

Nice to hear from another jumper.

I think the LALO jumps were more for cost recovery than anything else. More jumps per day less fuel for the helos than the hercs. Only one thing more scarey than a 500 ft drop from a helo, a 500 ft drop at night. Man that ground threatens your manhood real quick.

We dropped in with your 82 Division a few times, very much spoiled with your brand new modern gear compared to ours haha. We got revenge when they were introduced to the F18 sized mosquito population up here. Great bunch of ladds and had a hard time with our beer too haha.


Them were the days........ <img src="images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Mike

No experience with super-thin lines and I'd like to keep it that way, LoL!

I sense some jargon interference: "static line". It could have two meanings in this discussion.

1) Parachutes - "Static Line" is what you attach to the place you are jumping from (airplane, helo, building, etc.) The act of falling/jumping causes the parachute to deploy - the deployment bag is attached to static line which is attached to the building and as you fall away, the parachute is dragged out and (hopefully) inflates. This is as opposed to grabbing a "ripcord" (mis-nomer term) and yanking it to deploy a drogue 'chute that will drag out the deployment bag and parachute. The "static line" is what you hook up to what you're jumping from before you jump out.

2) Ropes/climbing - "Static line" as opposed to "dynamic line" - eh, fellow climbers forgive me - static line is what you might use to rappel on, rescue folks with, raise and lower gear/people. etc. as opposed to "dynamic line" which is what you would be attached to for climbing where you might expect to take a fall that is fetched up short by the rope. Generally speaking, static lines elongate less than dynamic lines under load and may or may not be fall-rated - dynamic lines tend to feel more flexible to the hand and are fall-rated. And the distinctions narrow with certain brands and types of rope these days - anyway, it's a kind of rope, and one that would be suitable for descending from a building, all things remaining equal. (And yes, one could also use a dynamic line for that purpose...)

Then there's the laid (twisted) nylon lines I used to climb/rappel on - think of those ropes as "giant rubber bands" - not something I am afraid of but not rope I would recomend to anyone who didn't cut their teeth on it - I can use it but have no use for it, if you follow my meaning.

Hmmm... "parts is parts..." nope - the rope distinction is not simply useage, but it's not terribly important for this application. But some of us think of ropes when we hear "static line", others think of parachutes - and confused folks like me think of ropes AND parachutes, order depending on context of the conversation...

Sheesh! Hope I haven't confused this worse!

Gulli,

Thats a loaded question.

It depends on any number of factors.

What type of chute?
What type of deployment rig for the chute?
Static Line or free fall?
Wind currents.
Deployment timing.
The individual.

While I am no modern parchute god by any stretch, military chutes vary greatly from civilian models because they have very different purposes. I can tell you, you fall MUCH farther than you want on any jump.

The website mentioned earlier have safety chutes that are somewhat similar to military but not quite. The shape of those chutes are very forgiving to novices and open very gently.

To some what answer your question. The bare minimum I would jump any chute under "normal" circumstances is 200 ft or 20 stories lets say. With the right chute and training you could jump down to 100 ft or 10 stories approx but thats pretty much the limit and very risky at that.

The way I figure it, under 15 stories you can be rescued many other ways or pile down the stairs. That height is a good repelling height too.

Its good to note that a majority of people killed in the twin towers were trapped above the plane impact floors WAY up.

A chute would have been nice to have IMHO. Just get out on the roof and step off.

Now, if we can just get those windows open hmmm.

Mike