the belt you are talking about, are they the mil-spec type CQB/rescue riggers belt ?
if you don't have a harness you can make one with the rope and a carabinder ( not sure weither it works with small diameter rope ). i think it's called a Swiss-seat ( or something )

There are personal escape "kits" used by firefighters, which generally consists of webbing, 50+' of escape rope and one or more carabineers. However, these do require the ability to tie a harness, training and practice. Here are some web sites to check out: Pete

http://www.anclotefire.com/ropesstraps.htm

http://www.emc4rescue.com/rescue/rope_rescue/ropes/cmc_rescue_firefighter_escape_line_kit.htm

http://www.easycarts.net/ecarts/EquipmentManagementco/Escape_Line_Kits.html

http://www.vnzrescue.com/Kevlar%20EscapeovSearch%20Kit%20%232.html

http://www.allhandsfire.com/rit.html

I think if I worked in a high rise office building today, I would seriously consider rapelling as an alternate way out. But there are a lot of alternatives to these pricey "kits."

I have actually used one of the "last resort " belts in a very short, very straightforward situation. They are bad, highly uncomfortable, and potentially quite dangerous, just as you say. I wouldn't bother with one again, because they are very heavy for everyday wear. I would use a diaper sling - cheaper, lighter, more comfortable, and much safer.

I am somewhat skeptical about a figure eight, although I have formerly used one routinely. If slack is developed in the line (very likely in going over a sharp lip like an office window) they can lock up. I would prefer either something like a Black Diamond ATC (cheaper, lighter, some what jerky) or a Petzl Stop (more expensive, very smooth, easy to adjust friction, desirable safety feature). The very best would be a rappel rack - perfect for longer distances.

One technique that anyone should learn if they acquire rapelling skills is the "body rappel." It requires no gadgets at all, only a properly anchored rope. What a hero you will be if you offer the fair maiden (or the boss) all the nice equipment, and you follow her down, depending only upon your smooth body rappel!

I would certainly practice, ideally several times, before having to use it in a stressful, pressure-packed situation (I still recall the sheer terror I felt on my first rap, forty-five years ago). Getting over the lip is usually the most difficult part and you might want to plan procedures for your specific situation. Climbers and cavers routinely rappel 150 feet and up, so this technique might offer some possibilities, but it need thought, practice, and planning - like every other aspect of survival.

Lordy, lordy, how I have rambled on. You would have thought I was discussing knives!

I'd rather someone with minimal training attempt a rappel than a base-jump with a chute someone else packed who knows how long ago and how well. If you're seriously considering depending upon a base-jump exit scenario then you are looking at somewhere around $3000 worth of training to make it anything more than a joke.

Well, I used to be a big-time caver before I got married and my wife domesticated me. (Plus all my college buddies I used to go with were also domesticated in the same way.)

Body rappels can be very uncomfortable and are best left to semi-steep slopes over short distances instead of sheer drops over long distances. I've never seen anyone try to body rappel a 150' sheer cliff.

I did see someone (one of these big talkers) try to "Austrailian" style (with a swami seat and a running jump) off a 60' cliff once. He was hurting pretty bad when he was done. Good thing that 30' foot tall pine sapling help break his fall, or he may not have had to ever worry about pain again. <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

If you wanna be the big hero, get some extra harnesses... or maybe cut several 20' lengths of rope for swiss seats (yes, that's what they're called). I'm sure someone has put instructions somewhere on the 'net on how to tie them. I'll go find a link that properly explains it if anyone is interested.

Ben Davis (National Speleological Society Member # 32811)

Developed inthe 1930 by Austrians, body rappeling was state of the art in the 1950s. You could order your cutting edge 60/40 parka with a shoulder patch then. If you didn't you soon added one to cover up the abrasion scar on your shoulder. my very first rappel was 120 feet, dead vertical, and for the first years of my climbing/caving career, it was the only way. I have done several 150 foot rappels, including some with short overhangs. In those days we divided ourselves into those who burned their shoulders and those who burned their butts.

Body rappels have given way to more comfortable, somewhat safer techniques, so I can see why you haven't seen any 150 body rappels lately. But the technique still has utility, because it is about the only way (aside from the French arm wrap technique) to descend with no equipment whatsoever other than the rope. It could be a handy technique in exiting a burning (or otherwise compromised building).

You would be fortunate indeed if the two of us were eying the only set of rapped gear because I would unhesitatingly give you the harness and descender, pad my bod and rap away to safety. Indeed, if we had to get a number of folks out by this technique, I might just step up first and rap away, because I could be finished by the time the next person had rigged up.

I don't body rappel routinely any more, but when I have taught people, I have always at least demonstrated this technique. It does have its uses, albeit limited.

Incidentally, a fellow caver introduced me to my wife about twelve years ago - many neat times in caves since then.

Don - REI #34454 - My NSS number is just about the same, but my card isn't handy (my wife persuaded me to finally join the NSS after all those years

Well, then you're a better man than me. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

People used to give me funny looks (in the mid-80's) when I just rappelled with a swiss seat and a non-locking "D" ring. I was told that it was the "Army" way and not safe enough. Apparently, if you're getting shot at you're allowed to take more risks when getting out of the helicopter / down the cliff. Of course, a burning building would also qualify.

Anyway, I was quickly informed of the virtue of fig-eights and break bars, as well as harnesses made out of webbing. Now, I'm way too fat and weak to be trying to dissapate that much heat energy over my body.

If it ever comes down to it, I'll be takin' that harness while you slide on down. Thanks in advance! <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I actually met my wife on a camping/caving trip also. She was a real sport until I married her... alas, now she "doesn't have any interest in that kind of thing anymore." Sounds like you got a good one.

One thing everyone is overlooking in an escape rappel from a World Trade Center scenario is that rappelling down is only half the battle - if you're 50-60 floors up, you have to get back INSIDE. Modern office window glass isn't bullet proof, but it's the next best thing. What's the point of rappelling down 4 or 5 floors if you're then left dangling on the rope as it slowly melts from the intense heat?

Windows in my office in WTC were thick enough to take a direct hits from all the debree coming from the first plane crash. And yes even if you did get out you are right about not being able to get back in. Now BASE jumping requires experience but this doesn't:

parachute static


It's a static line simple canopy. You attach the line to something heavy and jump out. Better than nothing, again assuming you can get the window open.

Here another example of the office chute.

parachute

Again the emphasis on these items is that you don't need special training. Obviously if you ever did jump and was forced to use one of thses office parachutes your chances of survival would be greater.

Matt

If I were preparing for this sort of situation, I would get enough line to reach all the way to the ground from wherever my office would be. 500-600 feet is a longish rappel but quite doable with the proper equipment. Of course, shorter distances are much more practical.

Most climbers or cavers soon learn, one way or another, the importance of having a rope that is long enough.