Well, as I hope I made clear, I rappel with saner techniques now. I even bought one of those super padded rescue seats for situations when I was on rope for a long time.

I'll bet if our wives got together, they would agree that we are rapelling enough, without learning any new techniques.... <img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Heh, I still use a 60/40 parka, and that's how I rappeled countless times - all the not-roped-in varients. It's a very handy thing to know. And the only harnesses we used were Swiss seats made from laid rope. We taught it up into the early 80's (not the only technique, to be sure). Try these expedients with a "casualty" tied on piggy back - now, that burns your butt and gives the brake hand a good workout...

Swiss seats are fast and do the job fine for a short time on rope. Tubular nylon webbing tied seats are less uncomfortable but take a lot longer to tie from scratch, eh? BSA standards have us teaching both types (not with laid rope, of course), but in our program we usually have ample commercial harnesses to go around after the familiarization with tied harnesses. Again, I think these are useful things to know.

(We must be a bunch of fossils... er, sorry, Don...)

My paradigm is cold weather climbing, although I've done precious little of that for several years. I've used a "diaper" type harness with a "padded" waist for many years, usually with a tubular nylon chest "harness" clipped in because I hang wrong side up naturally. Padding is much more comfortable even in hot weather - like when I'm in the harness most of the day training/aiding others. Wife uses same style, but that's mostly follow-the-leader - she had not climbed much before a few years ago.

Check out RIT-500 and RIT-900 lines (Sterling Rope trademarks, but others make similar ropes). The RIT-500 meets NFPA criteria for self-rescue lines. And there are other "high" temp lines available that would be fairly suitable for the long scary rappel from a high-rise office building. They are all a bit pricey IMHO, but if the urban canyonlands are where one works... personal choices. I suggest folks figure out expedient anchorage ahead of time so they don't fetch up short - a round turn on a desk that won't fit out the window will take at least a story's worth of additional line (and I would for sure pad the edges!)

I don't like brake bars - you spelunkers can keep them, LoL. Sort of the same reason I don't teach very many folks the Muenter hitch, if you follow me, let alone carabiner brakes. If you can afford the rope, a figure 8, rescue 8, or ATC varients are plenty cheap, eh? I'd stick with NFPA certified stuff for an office stash - save the lightweight stuff for climbing - but that's me.

"Hasty rappels" - that's what we termed them - fond memories for me and I think they are techniques that should be learned and practiced in "safe" environments. Much enjoyed your posts on this thread.

Regards,

Tom

I don't know how effective or "reasonable" these are, but I came up on this site last night searching for materials/supplies.

It's a site for a personal parachute for those people in high rise buildings.

I don't know if this is a goofy product or not, but you all in NYC may have an interest in it...it's pretty pricy. It would seem that a fire updraft or wind would slam you back into the building or into the fire or something, but I'm by no means an expert.

http://www.evacuchute.com/

I appreciate all of the technical rappeling, parachuting and evacu8 and similar hood devices information.

What I recall from various high-rise fires is the vision of people coming out of the building with soot on their nose & burning eyes.

A dust mask costs a few dollars & goggles a few more. I have to realize my financial situation and try to put it in perspective. How much smoke is going to enter through a dust mask? How effective are dust goggles? Any more ideas on dust masks & smoke goggles? What is the best, inexpensive smoke goggles? Is fogging really a problem?

Thank you!
Xavier Phx, AZ

I love it!!!!

Screw ropes & harnesses.

I would get the pilot model, I don't like the static line idea.

Brilliant idea that.

Mike

Cheap solution.

Swimming goggles and hold your breath. Or

EVACU8 smoke hood.

Dust masks don't work but may give very limited protection, the chemicals in smoke will kill you if trapped long before you burn anyway.

For 60-80 dollars the smoke hood is a good investment. If the event happens you'll wish you didn't go out partying that night and bought the smoke hood instead.

Mike

This thread has been pretty hypothetical for me - I haven't ever worked in a building over two stories high. In fact, some of the archeological sites I have worked on have been further off the ground than any of my offices.

But for lots of people, this is real life. It would seem that a system adapted to these special circumstances (especially rope capable of resisting high temps - not a characteristic of most climbing ropes), easily donned harnesses and fool-proof descenders would be workable. I was just looking at the web page for one of the parachute systems which stated that theirproduct could be used as low as 130 feet. This makes me think that for 150 feet and lower, I would plan on a rappel, higher than that a parachute would be the way to go. Or just move to the country.

I kind of agree with you about carabiner brake bars - I don't like them at all, unless they are deployed on a rappel rack. Used there, they work fine. A rappel rack is my preference for long rappels, or any rappel where I need to be able to carefully control my speed or stop at a precise point ( as in aiding an injured individual on a cliff). A Petzl Stop is a close second, but I just haven't had that much experience with it.

Feel free to call me a fossil - after all, studying them is how I have made my living. And, after all, you have to survive a while in order to get to the point where you merit the term... <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

One caveat here...

If you plan on preparing for the scenario where the smoke/flames are already on your floor before you can act, your going to have to train with all that garb. Whether its rappelling gear or a parachute, you're gonna have to actually work out putting on the harness and safely "hooking in" and exiting in low light conditions while wearing a hood.

If rappelling is the option you choose, perhaps you can hook up with some local cavers in your area. You'll learn pretty quickly how to put on the gear in the dark that way!

If you go with the parachute (NOT what I would do, but to each his own), then you'll have to invent a drill or two for donning the harness while wearing something over your face.

I sure wouldn't count on either technique to save my life without a little practice. <img src="images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

I never cared for brake bars either... I have a set and know how to use them, but I always felt like they were overrated. I guess if I were doing a 600' rappel into a pit while wearing an 80 lb pack, I'd want it. But I never found myself in that situation in the Cumberland Gap.

My rescue-8 has always been more than enough. I even had to pull some frozen chick off the side of a cliff and bring her down with it. It was even more than enough for that job.

Oh, I just remembered! I did use my brake bar once when I thought it was truly handy. I tied it to a tree and used it to slowly lower a couple hundred pounds worth of equipment down a mountain face. Somehow I think my rescue-8 would have worked there too, but I felt better having more "control" on that one.

Like hikerdon, this is all hypothetical to me... I think there's a 20 story building around here somewhere (downtown), but I don't work in it. Even my house is a ranch! <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sure... I'll just put in a request to the building manager.

"Ah, sir. We'd like to rappel out the 9th floor and send someone out the window with a parachute on 57. When can we schedule that for?"

-LOL <img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />