I'm trying to suggest a knife for a friend and thanks to some misguided advice from a local Mall Ninja he thinks the best knife out there is a Ka Bar. I really think he'll be unhappy with a combat knife for what he needs (basically a survival knife) and I noticed the Camp Knife while doing some research for him. It looks like a mini Kuhkri. Do any of you have experience with this one? Seems like a handy fixed blade for multi purpose survival/camp work.

He may buy it anyhow wether I end up giving it 2 thumbs up or not. I told him the only real purpose the front and rear guards have is to protect your hand while you're fighting off a Cougar...I think that hooked him on the cool factor even though it wasn't my intent.

Hacksaw,

You bring up a good point. I had pondered a Ka Bar some time back. My question: Why wouldn't a Ka Bar make a good survival knife?

Thanks,

Mike

The Kabar is not a bad knife at all. The argument should be there are better knives. Kabars are a direct descendant of pre war field knives in vogue at the time. It was lengthened to 7" to become a premier fighting knife. Points in favour; cost @ $50, decent metallurgy and it isn't a sharpened crowbar with a superb cutting edge after a little elbow grease. Points in negative; the upper guard impedes precision work. The pommel is a lousy hammer- if you feel a precision tool should be a hammer, the leather stacked handle and sheath are prone to rot and less than ideal for secure grip and carry,7" is to big for small tasks and to small for big ones. Rebuttal to all of the above; lots of marines somehow managed not to lose their knives since WW2. You can amputate the upper guard and actually use the duct tape in your Ritter survival pouch to secure the sheath before it goes bad. Field solution to all of the above: convince your friend to buy the smaller version. He's happy, the Mall Ninja is happy, your happy.

I'm not sure I approve of calling somebody a "mall ninja" because they suggested a Ka-Bar. It may not be the best camping multi-tool, but I can imagine being willing to trade a truck full of survival gear for 7 inches of steel in a bear's gut.



It's not like we're talking about a Kumo...

As far as the fighting knives, the leather handle, sheath and hidden tang design are among a Ka Bar's weak points, as far as the fighting knives. You can get synthetic handles and sheaths, which does away with the possibility of wearing or rotting out the leather. Not sure if these are available for the Ka Bar camp knife.

The hidden tang design and the aforementioned guard are not strong points, but the knives seem to bend near the guard before breaking, and the guards also seem to bend more than break. I think the blade itself is pretty strong for the money, but the point at which the blades taper into a tang creates a weaker point. Of course this many only be exposed when you decide to really pound on the knife. Looking at the design of the camp knife, you probably face a similar situation, as it seems to be hidden tang and has a guard.

The smaller fighting knife with the 4 or so inch blade is probably better for most utility jobs. If I needed something that can take on bigger jobs, do lots of jobs -- just not any particularly well, save some money, get something that can really stand abuse, I'd buy the cheap Coldsteel kukri. If I added to that a Mora, and I'd have more jobs handled for less money than what any Ka Bar costs.

Of course, the reality is that I did not choose at all. I've got a Ka Bar, a Coldsteel kukri, and a few Mora's, as well as a number of other knives. I doubt I'm the only one here who is continually tempted to buy more knives.

Although I don't have the Ka Bar's Camp knife, I do have their Large Dozier Folder. This knife lives in my larger PSK and I love the knife. For about 30 bucks for a folder that is built like a tank and very simple. What more can you ask for?

I had one of these knives. Rather than trying to tell you why you should pick this or that knife I will try and answer your question as best as possible. This is my opinion only from actually having owned and used the knife.

Good points
- excellent for chopping and slashing for its length(as intended)

- excellent for digging and scraping

- very strong tip

- good for light prying as the blade is fairly thick

- strong handle which fits the hands well(like all ka-bars do)

-excellent price

bad points
-the sheath sucks IMHO. It needs re-enforcing grommets to prevent the blade from slicing through between the stitching. Don't hold the sheath with one hand while you draw the knife unless you are paying attention. I think a hard sheath would be better suited to this knife.

- The finish wears off really fast with solid use. I hate black finishes but that is user preference.
- Its a bit too short for chopping some larger stuff. I know its not supposed to be an axe but for someone like me I use my heavy knife as if it were. An option of different blade lengths would be nice(like the cold steel kukri machete offers)This may have changed.

- The hand guards get in the way sometimes(personal preference once again)

- the pommel is kind of hard to use with the blade being so heavy. Using the back of the blade as a hammer works better for driving stakes etc but is does nick the metal a bit. You can actually drive a good sized nail easily like this. I use tools hard so I am more concerned with how it works over how it looks but other people fret about appearances. To each their own.

- If you get gasoline on the handle it will get all gooey. Not an issue for most people

- the edge tends to chip in extreme cold if you make it too fine. If you keep to a lower working edge then it will not be an issue. I haven't seen it chip in warm weather even with a fine edge.

These are only observations I made about the knife. I ended up replacing it with the Cold steel kukri machete for larger work or the Gerber LMF II as a light backpacking camp knife for my own reasons but the ka-bar camp knife when used hand in hand with a smaller blade for detailed work is a good choice. If you could ONLY have one knife then I would feel confident that this knife could handle most tasks with reasonable ease, even if I would go with something smaller.

As for fighting off Cougars or bears I think anyone who would buy a knife based off of those criteria will be in for one hell of a dose of reality should they ever happen across one. I guess a knife is better than a fist but I wont buy a fighting style knife in the delusion that I may be able to actually have a real chance fighting a bear with one.

What ever floats a persons boat I guess.

I think they are very cost effective options. The 5 inch model is much less intimidating than the 7 inch one. And should suffice for most needs for most people.
I am certain there are some other really nice options that cost more ... but having a decent quality product to start that is relatively durable and inexpensive goes a long way for the majority of people.
I believe a Ka-Bar is a good starting point.

I call them that because I know the shop he went to...not because it's in a mall or because of the children who work there...though I don't exactly have much love for the place for those other reasons.

Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against Ka-Bar knives...they're great bang for the buck and have a fantastic history and reputation. Since I came across this knife looking for him I almost bought one for myself. In this case we're talking about a guy though who doesn't own any knives and will likely only ever own this knife unless he loses it or breaks it. He needs one for work as he's going to be doing some outside bush work and it's sort of policy he have a good survival kit (including a quality knife of his choosing) before he can be left alone to do his job.

I suggested he start with a $9 Mora and think more about what he wants before spending big bucks on a knife...but $50 or $60 isn't a bad place to start with either if it's a good blade. Unfortunately a mutual friend told him that the number one rule of knives is that you get what you pay for so that idea was out the window immediately...he's a great guy but very impressionable as he has no experience with knives.

Oh. I thought you were referring to Rawles' definition of a Mall Ninja - one who values style over substance.

What about showing him something written about Mora's and just how darn tootin' good they are in genral and for the money. So he's impressionable, but that does not mean some more information might not change his mind.

For example:

http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/knives_for_a_buck.html

http://thegearjunkie.com/mora-knives

I'm a little confused about what knife is being recommended. Ka Bar is a brand with a wide variety of products so "a Kabar" could refer to the fighting knife or to lots of other knives.

If the guy is set on the Kabar Camp Knife or the combat knife I suspect he'll be making his first acquisition as a knife collector since that knife will reveal some limitations at some point.

Nothing wrong with having a collection though :-)

At least he's not starting with the Crocodile Dundee version of a knife..... (or a Bowie Knife,er, short sword)

I'm partial to the Spec Plus Pilot Survival knife and similar size when dayhiking and backpacking. Synthetic sheath (not kydex though), rubber handle, lanyard hole, modest price.

I am a Field Pup person, myself.

Partially because local stores don't deal with Ka Bar.

The sog field pup is a really fine low cost knife. Just don't buy it with the mock leather sheath, which is crap.

Someone mentioned the kabar dozier folder. I think there are two different lines of kabar doziers. The lower cost folders can be gotten for under $20, including shipping, on ebay. They are good, lightweight (2oz), lockback knives. you can spend a lot more money for less knife. It's what I use when camping/hiking in the northeast.

I guess I wasn't specific enough as many of you do seem to be referring to the stereotypical Ka Bar fighting knives. I'm specifically asking about the Ka-Bar 'Camp Knife'. Similar to the fighting knives in size and (synthetic)handle but with a Kuhkri-ish 8" recurve blade. I wanted to hyperlink it but the proxy here at work is scared of websites which feature 'weapons'.

I have never seen or handled one of these, and I am not a real fan of Ka Bars for personal reasons, but if he is dead set on a Ka Bar, how 'bout the Next Generation Ka Bar? Kraton handle, no upper guard, "plastic" sheath...

I can finally link it:

https://www.kabar.com/product_detail.jsp?productNumber=1244&mode=search&categoryId=1,2,3,7&categoryName=Product%20Search%20Results

Dan: I'm tempted to just buy him a Mora. If he doesn't use it I'm out $9 and can say I tried my best. Good call on the site though I'm not sure he's interested in research when he knows I'll gladly do it for him

This is the one I was referring to:
http://www.knifesupplycompany.com/kb4070.html

Its not the 'lower' cost one, but a nice large-ish lock blade that doesn't take up too much room. Blade is beefy and you can baton with it with no worries to the blade.

It sits in my large psk and is my backup knife ("3 is 2, which is only 1" theory).

Well, I"m a long time fan of the Mk II, preferably from Ka-Bar. But having handled one of these... I think the camp knife is trying to be more knife than it can be. I can think of plenty of uses for it, don't get me wrong, but it is a little small to be a chopper.

And I like the gaurds to keep sap, blood and liquid crud off the grip. :P

I looked at that KaBar site, and looked at the specs for the Camp knife (1244) and the short black fighter (1256 or 1258), and the same metal, same handle, same same, except, blade shape, weight and grind. The fighters have a flat grind, the Camp has a hollow. Blade shape is something you know about from looking at them. The short fighter has a 5 and 1/4 inch blade. The camp has a 8 inch blade. In between these is the longer regular fighter. It does not say what the sheath for the camp knife is made from.

[quote=Kris
This is the one I was referring to:
http://www.knifesupplycompany.com/kb4070.html

Its not the 'lower' cost one, but a nice large-ish lock blade that doesn't take up too much room. Blade is beefy and you can baton with it with no worries to the blade.

It sits in my large psk and is my backup knife ("3 is 2, which is only 1" theory). [/quote]

the only difference between the knives is the size. Your blade is about 3/4 inch longer. The blade steel, handle composition and lockback mechanism are the same. Excellent knives.

Where are you in the Caribbean? I used to live in Jamaica and then then Grand Cayman.

Hacksaw,

Ka-Bar's are great knives, however this model is more difficult to sharpen (due to the recurve shape and low level knife skills of a first time buyer) unless you use one of the "V" type pull through sharpeners.

If you get him the Mora tell him the money he saved could be better spent buying, Mors Kochanski's book "Bushcraft" and reading the chapter on knife use (or the entire book). I think the book and knife retail in the U.S.A. for around $15.00 and $9.00 respectivly. And if he does not like the book he has expensive toilet paper or tinder.

If he needs to chop through wood a folding pruning saw would work better with minimal ax experience.

Just a few thoughts on new people going into the field for the first time, and possibly being left by themselves.

Best wishes for your friend finding what works for him!
-Joe

Bushcraft is one of my favorite books. I had a copy when I was a kid and lost it. Last month I bought it again after over a decade. Getting hard to find around here despite the fact that Mors is from Alberta not far from here.

The more I think about this particular Ka Bar I've come to the conclusion that it's just too big for what he needs though it would make a good second knife as a backup and/or chopper.

O.K. I just remembered you are in Canada. So in the interest of maintaining CD-USA relations I now suggest a Grohmann Russell. Yes, it too has a lousy leather sheath prone to self amputation and some people dislike the steel. The elliptical shape is not optimal for feathering kindling and it takes more effort at batoning. But, you can find a fellow canadian in our resources who makes splendid kydex sheaths and the knife can be had in either hollow or flat grind. The friendly people in Pictou ( who never answered my emails) even offer cosmetic seconds at discount.So there you go, why buy Cher Bono-Altman when you can have Celine Dion! Breaks into a spirited rendition of Snowbird.

It's funny you should mention that...I just got a special late night delivery...post to come as soon as I can type it.

I'm currently living in Grand Cayman, been here for 4+ years now.
I'll PM you and continue this off line.

Kris

In reviewing the thread I don't see much info about what the guy's "needs" really are. Whether the particular knife will serve as a survival knife is a question of degree. Those who have used and practiced survival using a knife have experience enough to know if this will do the job. Those who carry such a thing just in case won't have experience with which to decide.

If the guy "needs" to have a large fixed blade knife in the same way that I "needed" my very first large fixed blade knife when I was 11* then this one will serve just fine :-)

If he doesn't use it but goes camping or backpacking he may eventually decide it's too big. If he does use it he'll probably find some room for improvement and, like many of us, become a collector :-) All knives are defective in one of two ways. They are either too big or too small. That's why you need just one more to fit that niche where you just don't have anything that is just right.


*back when children weren't all psychotic axe murderers in the making and therefore needed to be denied knife ownership for the greater good of society.

unimogbert,

Good point... I remember my dad giving me a pocket knife when I was young. These days it seems that child welfare will cart you away for endangering a child.

Sad that certain things are going away. There are times I feel concerned that I will be violating some business policy carrying a SAK.

Mike

Good point. I usually carry 2 plus a multitool for that exact reason and just vary the style and size to my needs be it camping or SAR work or every day carry. Though in my experience it's way easier to be too big than too small.

When I hike I make sure I have easy access to my knife. Cougar attacks are rare but they happen. Like any cat attack, the prey is the last to know.