Sorry. I have seen MFS so many times on this board I though I would start to use it. Oh well. Yes. Magneisum Fire Starter.<br><br>

> I'll start of with some ideas, even though some may be off base.<br><br>> 4. Meds.<br>> Here I'm not totally sure what would be best. You may experience or need to treat all sorts of injuries,<br>> burns, cuts, broken bones, etc. Crash sites of commercial airliners are going to have immediate <br>> response. Extreem circumstances, such as weather conditions or terrain (mountains) may delay <br>> response, but survivers would likely be reached in hours, not days (is that a reasonable assumption?). <br>> So I would guess that antibiotics would not be needed, but pain meds would. As would gauze bandages,<br>> tape, maybe a SAM splint, but security might find that odd. What else.<br><br>Commercial airliners are likely to carry a very extensive array of first aid supplies. I'd stick with a regular first aid kit, plus some ASA or acetominophen (St. John Ambulance in Canada insists that a first-aider cannot give any medications, except aspirin - and then only for someone having a heart attack, not for a headache or as a general painkiller. It makes some sense, in that some people are allergic to aspirin and they could turn around and sue.) If you require prescription medications, carry them, but make sure they're clearly marked as such. It's generally, IMO, a bad idea to carry someone else's prescription meds for them, even a child, because if you get separated, they need the medication and you don't (something that we had problems convincing the Scout Leaders at a camp a few years ago; they wanted us to hold all the medications at the First Aid post. When we refused, they got one of the scouts - who was trained in First Aid and should have known better - to carry all the medications in his pack. You can imagine the confusion that resulted when one of the kids had a severe asthma attack and they couldn't find the kid who was carrying his inhaler; when they did find him, they had to go through a sack full of medication looking for the right one.)<br><br>> 5. Firestarting<br>> In cold conditions, providing heat may be necessary, especially since survivers may suffer from <br>shock. Lifeboat matches and Spark-lite & tinders, etc., should sufice and not present a problem <br>> with security. <br>> If you pack several alternatives, you'll have backup if you need to surrender one form, such as <br>> the matches.<br><br>Messing about with flint and steel is great in theory, but if you have someone injured and going into shock, especially in a remote or inaccessible location, you need a fire NOW! Airliners will have emergency flares; use one of those if you have to. Use a flamethower or a propane torch if one's available; someone in shock doesn't have time for you to mess about with your magnesium shavings and flint sparker. (Something that I was told rather forcibly by my Wilderness First Aid instructor back in February, and it made sense to me. :-)<br><br>In general, a commercial airliner crash is likely to be the least of your worries. I think that you'd have to board a commercial airline flight every day of the year for over 1,900 years before you'd have a 50-50 chance of being involved in a fatal crash; and even then, you'd probably survive.<br><br>

I would caution against assuming that commercial aircraft carry extensive first aid kits. Last time I was on a flight, I noticed a sticker on one of the overhead bins indicating first aid. I opened the overhead bin and found a first aid kit about half the size of a briefcase. They carry FIRST aid. Not extended aid, or traumatic aid, heart attack, or baby birthing aid. <br><br>SAM splints are cool but bulky. I have a couple in my home disaster kit but don't carry them. Splint material is all around you. Anything mildly rigid can be used. In a plane crash, the area should be littered with all kind of things to use like broken tree limbs, airplane frame, umbrellas, magazines, etc. Most Over The Counter meds are given orally. General field practice is to NOT give anything orally to prevent potential air way obstructions for patients. Carrying a few OTC pain meds for personal use makes good sense. I would suggest you follow the guidelines as set out in your training to provide the best defense if you are called into court to defend your actions. <br><br>I would recommend carrying bandaids for minor injuries, lots of 4x4 guaze pads, roller gauze, antibiotic, and gloves. A pocket face mask if you have lots of room. <br><br>"Messing about with flint and steel is great in theory, but if you have someone injured and going into shock, especially in a remote or inaccessible location, you need a fire NOW! Airliners will have emergency flares; use one of those if you have to. Use a flamethower or a propane torch if one's available; someone in shock doesn't have time for you to mess about with your magnesium shavings and flint sparker. (Something that I was told rather forcibly by my Wilderness First Aid instructor back in February, and it made sense to me. :-)"<br><br>I would be very surprised to find any commercial airliners that carry flamethrowers or propane torches as part of their emergency equipment. I would be suprised to find flamethrowers anywhere other than a military installation. Flares can be effective fire starters if you can locate them on the damaged aircraft. Starting fires with methods other than matches can be more difficult if you have not practiced. Fire building is a skill that needs to be practiced and mostly is about good preparation. I would prefer to start a fire with matches but I can start a fire with a magneisum fire starter, hot spark, or steel wool and batteries in just about the same amount of time it takes to start one with matches. The time consuming part is gathering the fuel, not the actual lighting of the fuel.<br><br>I would guess that your WIlderness First Aid instructor has very good first aid skills. People who follow this forum often have better than average outdoor and survival skills. Building fire with alternate means is a skill many practice. <br><br>The common thread of most of the questions on this forum is what can I carry with me to ensure my survival. In other words, I cannot rely on others to provide the supplies and skills to resolve the problem, so what should I carry on my person or in a container on my person at all times to help me overcome adversity. Certainly take advantage of supplies and materials in your area, but also have your own materials that you can reply on, have practiced with, and know you will have available to you.<br><br>So yes, I carry a magneisum fire starter with hack saw blade and lifeboat matches with me in my fanny pack when I travel on commercial airlines. I typically have a fanny pack on my waist while flying. I also have a daypack at my feet. The day pack is typically only half full to allow me to add items during my travels. I normally include an unlined nylon jacket with hood, at least one bottle of water, 50' of paracord, a SAK, a large trash bag (or 3), trail mix or other snack, and matches in the daypack. Bulky items that don't fit in the fanny pack.<br><br>The fanny pack has a first aid kit, flashlight with extra batteries, Leatherman, imitation SAK, matches, lighter, MFS, trashbags, bandanna, 50' paracord, tin foil, cash, paper & pencil, pen, duct tape, chemical light stick, water purification tablets, space blanket, whistle, compass, needles, fishing line, hooks, sinkers, bobber. The first aid kit includes the the items listed above as well as a few OTC pain meds and immodium AD.<br><br>When going through airport security, I put the fanny pack in the day pack and put the whole thing on the conveyor belt X-ray machine. Once through security, I put the fanny pack on my waist. Never had a problem with knifes or matches.<br><br>

I would hardly worry about method of firemaking after a large commercial crash. The airliners may have inadequate first aid kits, but they do carry lots of tinder that self ignites on impact. I think its called fuel.Friend of mine in the C.G. was one of the first on scene in the Florida crash. there were plenty of secondary fires in spite of the the site being in a swamp. Most of the victims that survived the initial impact succumbed to shock.<br><br>

Regarding airline medical kits. The FAA has recently issued rules that require domestic airlines to carry a small number of prescription medications for MD's to use. The first aid kits are just that, for first aid when someone is injured on the flight. It is unreasonable and impractical to imagine an airliner carrying sufficient trauma supplies to treat survivors of a crash. <br><br>Second issue is that of pyrotechnics. Life rafts that are USCG approved are required to carry a FEW signal flares. It is my understanding that none are required by the FAA. Certainly, the airliner does not keep a stock of flares stowed away anywhere.<br><br>Finally, is the issue of the crash in the Everglades. After reading accident reports in FAA publications, there were no survivors of the crash to die of shock. The aircraft impacted nose first in a near vertical dive and buried itself in the swamp. There were no survivors.<br><br>Jeffery S. Anderson, M.D.<br><br>

The medical kit required by the FAA is in my opinion very inadequate. However, most MD's and RN's are not well trained nor experienced in the treatment of emergencies, especially those occuring out of the hospital.<br><br>Jeffery S. Anderson, M.D.<br><br>

I was refering to an earlier commercial crash in which the aircraft bellied in. The first unit on scene was a C.G. helicopter. my friend, a ASM entered the wreckage and found the pilot alive, conscious and with what appeared to be non life threatening injuries. He then moved on to seek out other survivors. Another crewman soon informed him the pilot had succumbed. My friend was very upset and went back to confirm it was the same crewman. The pilot died of shock, as apparently several others did that night. My point is this, both rescuers and the victims of accidents are easily lulled into false complacency after rescue. The effects of injury or exposure to the elements do not cease just because a search party, ambulance or John Wayne show up. <br><br>

I still vividly recall my Boy Scout first aid training as a youth. Almost every single treatment for injury ended with "...and treat for shock." It was almost comical. But it does emphasis that almost any trauma can trigger the circulatory system into shock.<br><br>Willie Vannerson<br>McHenry, IL

Stop the bleeding, Start the breathing, Check for wounds, Treat for shock. Drilled in by the U.S.M.C.<br><br>

There you go!! I've always heard there's a trick to everything if you know the trick...<br><br>