Too bad, they are a fine weapon. 'Cept the full auto version, that sucker is 'bout impossible to hang onto...

10.5 is kinda heavy. The ones I have handled didn't have that rail system, so they were lighter, and beautifully ballanced...

Chris dated himself with that one. I remember rifle quals with the M-1 Garand. Great rifle at 300 yds, even a novice could qualify. First time I'd shot anything bigger than my .22 bolt gun. Back in the 90's when CMP was trying to get them out the door so they weren't available to be crunched I did my part and bought my share of Garands -- still have them. I bought one to leave with my brother but he decided he liked the FAL better (nice rifle) so now I have an IHC Garand with a near new LMR barrel waiting for me in his safe.

It's a great battle rifle for a fixed position, but if you're packing stuff and you don't intend to take targets at extended range, the .223/5.56 rifles are probably the better choice. The rifle and the ammo are lighter which allows you to carry more of other things you may need in a bug-out scenario. I'm more for bugging in also, a Remington 870 12ga shotgun will greet the first few targets should that ugly scenario develop.

I was lucky enough to attend Colonel Jeff Cooper's GUNSITE school in Arizona. I showed up with a PO 8 Lugar artillary with stock and snail drum ( and handrolled ammo for 100% feed reliability) as a joke, the colonel despising the 9 MM. Of course, I also brought a 5 digit 1911. After the staff and students had a good laugh at his initial reaction, the Colonel took it out and had a'blast'shooting it. We discussed firearms, and I still agree. The 5.56 is a 'poodle gun' and I did use it in service. I would suggest looking at his SCOUT RIFLE concept which fits in very well with Walter Mitty, post apocalyptic scenarios. Again, a SMLE carbine or 1909 argentine carbine and many others are a few dollar cheap alternative. My 09 took a trigger stoning ( still two stage) and a MOJO drop in peep sight along with a polished feedramp. The round is a defacto .308- Paul Mauser got it right the first time! $200 and the rig outshot all kinds of fancy rigs last time out. Buy whatever makes you happy, but don't be suprised when a flintlock or SMLE takes a member of your party out. The afghans did this to the russians with Kalashnikovs.

I did the scout rifle thing, kind of. I just took a Mexican Mauser (small-ring) dated 1933 in 7x57 and cut the barrel to 16.25 inches. What a scream!! I haven't mounted an LER scope yet. The gun cost me $65.

I also took an FN Mauser (large-ring 98 action) in 8mm and rebarreled it in .35 Whelen. It had a 2-10X scope, and the barrel was a medium- weight Shilen cut to 20" with a "scooped" crowning job. The stock, as it turned out, was French walnut. That was worth the $99 I spent on the rifle alone. Not exactly a scout rifle, but a very nice shooter.

with the requirments you laid out in your post your are pretty much tying yourself into one of the better AR15 platforms. No knock there, they work fine for me. Forget the circa 1960's arguments about dirt build up, jamming, not reliable, bla bla bla
todays AR15's are very fine weapons.
If you were not adverse to the 7.62x39 cartridge I would look at one of the AK47 clones as well, but the AR15's from Bushmaster, Rock River, Armalite, Stag, etc are good stuff, and can generally be found in the $800-$1500 dollar range.

Someone posted a Kel-tec (you were kidding right) This is your life you are trying to defend here isn't it?

This is more common then one would think. I help my friend at his gun shop all the time. And it always amazes me when people will buy an inexpensive, low quality gun for protection. Personally I buy good guns & ammo so I know it’s going to shoot when I want or need it to.

That was me and no I wasn't. Doug has a Kel-Tec SU-16 Review on this website and it's not the low quality gun you may think. The only problem I've heard is of a guy who went through multiple mags rapid fire and melted some plastic vicinity of the gas port; that's where the hinge for the folding bipod is located. The rifle was still functional.

Will it compete with an M-4 in CQB or a match tuned AR-15 on a range? No, but one of its more important attributes is that the SU-16CA version is available in CA, while AR-15's and many other rifles in that class are not. A lot of us who grew up with the Garand and M-14 thought that the M-16 was a POS; now I have a rifle with even more plastic and it works fine.

This is the trouble that us newbees have. I was seriously considering the Kel-Tec SU-16, based on the price and the review here. Now there's people who know tons more than I do saying it's a joke. In the perfect world I'd be able to test all of the rifles I'm considering and pick the one I like the best. That's not possible. I intended to base my decision on a lot of research and then spend a lot of time learning my gun inside and out.
It's such a tough decision.

Visit your local gun shops, explain what you want to do & ask questions about what is well made and reliable, most gun shop people are good guys that will give good advice.

And understand guns, good guns cost money. They are tools that can and will outlast the owner. The price of a gun should be not be the first thing you use to determine if it’s for you. Name brands like Ruger, Colt, Glock, S&W Sig-Sauer, Beretta, Remington and many others are all good names that can be trusted to work.


I would go with a known quality brand name gun if you are going to bet your life on it.