There has been some talk about the White Box Stove on these forums so I just thought I would let you all know that our web site is up and running. It is still in it's infancy and we are adding a few things but you can find most of the information about the stove on the site.

White Box Stoves

Thanks,

Bill Ballowe

Just a usability note. When I went to your site the first thing I saw was a nasty message from Bill Gates scolding me for using the wrong version of Internet Explorer:


(emphasis added)

That's gotta be a joke, right?

I'm not criticizing you, I'm sure it is an artifact of "The Chromatophore template" you're using.

Just wanted to warn you that some purist pointy headed computer geek types tend to blow a gasket when they see this kinda thing.

Just use Firefox and you won't see that nasty warning from BG

Seriously. Pointy headed computer geeks tend to eschew using IE in favor of standards compliant browsers. They also tend to update their software to the latest version.

Congratulations on getting the website up and running Bill. I've been planning on buying one of your stoves since they were mentioned by another ETS member a few weeks ago.

it seams to take forever to load, I watched the review on Minibull designs and they look like great stoves!

They are great stoves I have one and it works super.

Lee

As a rounded headed computer geek, I'd laugh. And keep right on useing Mozilla.

Use Mozilla or IE as you like - I think the point of the message (not from Bill Gates, but from a website supplier) was its dangerous to browse the internet with an unsupported 5+ yr old browser without any security updates. Pretty much guarantees becoming owned by some botnet.

But back to the Whitebox Stove, I just ordered mine from the site, it seemed to choke a bit on the paypal processing, I may have inadvertently ordered two (which at $20 + 3 s/h would suit me just fine, I can think of a few hikers coming up on birthdays).

Yes, and I'd wish someone would tell that to the pointy heads who are responsible with Siebel not working with anything except IE6...

Anyhow, nice stoves!

Worked fine for me. Far as I know, Firefox was a poor Clint Eastwood movie, and Mozilla sounds like a Japanese monster made of cheese. I am too old and worn out to actually backpack anymore, so I won't be ordering one of your stoves, but again, thanks for a great stove...

Web sites are generally designed by computer geeks that strive to have the latest version of any and all software out there. But most of us (like all) don’t care about what software you are using, and sure as heck don’t need mommy telling us to upgrade our computer. We go there just to look at the stove to see if it’s something we might want. Not to be lectured about computer programs. It’s actually a big turn off when this happens, as I don’t look at the site, I close the window.

If you are selling something, don’t tell the customer his computer is junk or out of date. It really harms your sales.


I have my own carpet cleaning business, I don’t walk into a customers home and tell them their carpet is old. This is a sure way to not work and not make any money.


I just clean it and collect the check, smiling all the time.


If you want to sell stoves, get your web site to work with any computer so you can make a sale.

Don’t tell me what to do for my own good.

My thread hijack alarm is going off, but carpets and browsers are apples and oranges, one of them is free and you can install a current version in about 5 minutes, then uninstall and install another one. The warning against IE6 (or earlier IE 5.x) is a simple fact, that an ancient browser was detected and is presumed unsafe, and that Microsoft's update policy is to push a more modern IE7 to their legacy users. Those same folks can go out and download Mozilla, which will do an arguably more efficient jobs keeping the browser current and secure (at the expense of allowing users to keep their older browsers if that's what they want). Unless I'm mistaken, IE6 lacks any antiphishing features, let alone ongoing support for security vulnerabilities. Hate to break it to anyone, but the same goes for you old farts (like my Dad) still running Windows 98 and other OSes beyond support...

I think you'll see more of these warnings from other well-intentioned sites, like banks and financials, who are tired of their clients being compromised by botnets because their browsers don't support modern day security features. Apparently they're necessary, because anyone browsing with IE6 should be singing their death song.

So is this the best alcohol-stove-from-a-can out there?

How long do one of these last? Doesn't the heat damage it after a while?

Will it last longer than the Pepsi can stove?

Nas.

One of the reviewers here states they've been using it for two years, so I don't imagine the heat will deteriorate it appreciably. Other than a few comments about it taking a while to prime, I really haven't seen anything negative written about these stoves. They're made from heavier aluminum than a standard pop can, so I imagine they would be more durable than one made from thinner material. And they're so elegant looking!

I have a couple of these and would easily rate it either first or second. As far as strength and durability go, the increased wall thickness of the aluminum bottle used on the white box stove easily puts it at the top of the list.

I also really like the fact that the white box stove is designed to be strong enough to be used without a separate pot stand, and Bill is perhaps one of the most stand-up guys you'll ever find on ebay.

The only other alcohol stove out their that even comes close to Bill's IMO is the Anti Gravity Gear Caldera Cone 10-12 alcohol stove. The design of this stove (12 air inlets in the OD and 10 air outlets in the ID, with a center flame) contribute to making it the most efficient stove I've ever used. For a given amount of fuel, the 10-12 stove will easily run almost twice as long as anything else I've used.

To be fair, I haven't run a side-by-side water boiling test (so even though it runs twice as long, it may actuially take twice as long to reach a boil as far as I know) but my impression is the 10-12 will do more cooking on less fuel. I also really like the center flame design, allowing me to use a smaller container without risk of the flame overshooting the cup.

Jim

Bill,

I tried to buy one and got this message:

We are unable to complete your request at this time. Please click Retry or try again later. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Message 3004

I'll keep trying, but wanted to let you know.

Probably this little thing called supply and demand. :P

Anytime someone tells me something is "for my own good," I put my hand over my wallet.

Sorry if some of your guys are having trouble with the web site. I'll try to fix it. Sometimes old computer programs are better fixed by upgrading to a newer version.

Bill in MT

I had no problems with it. But at the same time I don’t go to web sites about camping to be told I should get new software. I just want to look at the item.

They get a thumbs up from http://www.freezerbagcooking.com/stovescookinggear.htm

BTW, freezerbagcooking.com is a real nice site for those looking to travel lightweight.

For you guys that are having trouble with the web site I do apologize.

We have now added Google Checkout along with PayPal so that might help someone buying a stove. Hope this helps.

My web builder is working on the other problems like the site telling you guys that you need to upgrade your browser, of course doing so wouldn't hurt any way. He had some surgery and is down and out for awhile but he is aware of the problem and will work on it when he is back on his feet.

Thanks for the understanding...

Bill in MT

I actually just ordered a "freezerbagcooking starter set" (with the cozy and the cookbook) and a White Box stove from freezerbagcooking.com.

Its a cool looking stove at a great price and (I think) made in America. Who could ask for more?


Ken K.

Ken,

Yes the cozy, cookbook and the stove are all made in the good old USA.

Bill in MT

My White Box Stove arrived on monday, I've only had time to boil water for tea out on the deck, but I can give a thumbs up to this stove. Using alcohol (not Heet) it primed and boiled up 2 cups of water in probably four minutes, then kept the kettle on the boil for a few more minutes until the fuel ran out. A few minutes after that it was cool to the touch and ready to be packed away. The whole works including wind screen folds and fits inside my kettle, with a few days of fuel to boot. I'm not prone to timed comparisons, but I think this stove uses less fuel per liter than my trangia stove. I'll take it on a day hike this weekend to test it in some less than optimal conditions, for instance see how stable it is on a less than level surface, will my kettle slide off etc. The aluminum wind screen is a nice bonus, better than what came with my Primus stove, I think it will see some double duty there. But there's no doubting the heat output, very strong and steady. A few more uses and I'll notch the inside for enough fuel to boil my kettle so I don't waste fuel.

Bill in MT also did some good customer service after a Paypal snafu, its always good to work with responsive vendors. Its a great value if you boil water or cook with alcohol on hikes, or as an emergency stove for heating and boiling water. Thanks Bill in MT!

Since this thread came up to the "top" I thought I'd mention that I got my Freezerbagcooking.com "starter kit". Nice cozy, but the cool thing I really wanted to mention is that it came with a long Lexan spoon specifically designed by GSI to work well with Ziploc bags and other dehydrated food packets. I really like the spoon.

I used my new GSI Tea Kettle (holds about 1L of water) with my MSR Dragonfly stove last weekend. It worked REALLY well. I like the kettle a lot. It heated up quickly and the orange plastic-coated handle was plenty cool and nicely sized.

I can't wait to try out the White Box Stove next. I'm not expert on alcohol stoves, but my first impression of the White Box Stove was one of quality. The design is clearly something beyond my metal-working ability.

Now I'm wondering if I should have bought the priming ring. I guess I don't really understand what it does.

This freezer bag cooking looks interesting... I was trying to find a dedicated thread on it. What do you think of the recipes? This may be something I want to look into.

Freezer bag cooking is a great way to minimize mess out in the wild, but you do have to be careful. You have to make sure the plastic bag doesn't touch the bottom of the pot while it's on the stove. If it touches the bottom the plastic will melt and dump all your food into the water.

I have the best results when I bring the water to a boil, add the freezer bag of food, then take the pot off the stove and place it in an insulating sleeve. Let the bag/food soak for 10-15 minutes in the hot water, maybe take it out one to "squish" the food around some the heat it evenly.

This works great for canned food, scrambled eggs, etc... When you are done eating cleaning up consists of rolling up the freezer bag and sticking it in a small Lexan bottle. My long-handled titanium spoon gets licked clean and then wiped with an antibacterial handiwipe. It's the safest, laziest way I've found to cook in the woods.

-Blast

Actually the way that Freezer Bag Cooking TM (as put together by the host of freezerbagcooking.com), the freezer bag isn't inserted in boiling water, water is poured into the bag and the meal prepared that way - no muss, no fuss, no broken plastic bags, much as you have your best results Blast. The cookbook's author sells a 'cozy', or insulated sleeve to hold the freezer bag in while the hot water cooks the meal (usually freeze dried) - holding a hot bag for 5 minutes is a prescription for dropping it. Me, I just put it in my cap.

The website freezerbagcooking.com gives a good intro to all this, has reviews of trail food, and some great recipes, although I'd say go ahead and buy the recipe book for some even better ones. The GSI kettle she recommends is good, I have a similar one put out by Primus a few years back. The author is a dedicated PNW hiker, demos her craft at regular outdoor shows, and I believe her cookbook is #1 at rei.com. All in all though its meant to be an inexpensive and lightweight way to eat well outdoors, so all the gear and food recommendations are suited to travelling on the go and survival situations as well (provided you are prepared enough to prepackage the meals). Before a hiking season I usually pack up 10-12 portions at a time, and though I've never adapted that for survival situations it could be easily done. I actually took a couple freezer bag meals in my carryon on a trip to San Francisco, but ate too well to dip into that. However if there had been an earthquake I probably would be grateful to have it.

Lono,

That is how I read it too... all the cooking is done in the bag with hot water poured into it. Some of the recipes look really good and it would be nice to be able to adjust the taste to my liking. Wondering if I should just get a dehydrator as well...

I have a Coleman Xtreme stove that can either take the powermax fuel or a standard threaded fuel cylinder. I carry a nestled set of Snow Peak titanium trek 900 / mini solo cookpots and titanium fork/spoon. I've been looking at alcohol stoves over and over again as another option instead of the Coleman.

Mike

I highly recommend trying Glad microwave steaming bags as they feature a flat pleated base, allowing the bag to stand upright during filling/cooking/eating. Although these bags have steam vents along the top, they work fine for storage, since the vents only seam to open under relatively high pressure. Since they contain no PVC (or even BPA for that matter) they will not add any plastic taste to your food.

I generally use a AntiGravityGear insulated pouch cozy with these bags, which stores much flatter than the traditional AGG 32oz cozy that I use for soups and stew.


Bill,

I was thinking the other day about the fact that your WBS design supports a pot directly without the need for a supplemental pot stand. It would seem to me that this would greatly restrict incoming airflow (assuming the base of the pot sealed against the top of the stove) thereby reducing the combustion efficiency of the stove. Do you have any thoughts/data on this?

Obviously it would be easy enough to add a shallow notch or two across the top of the stove to serve as air intakes, but I was just wondering if this has ever been considered to be an issue.


Jim

You are right. I drifted away from "just add boiling water" meals because I could never find one I liked. On my short hikes I bring things like canned curry and mix in pouched chicken chunks, then heat it up in the freezer bag in hot water.

On loneger hikes I've used Mountain House and Backpacker's Pantry dehydrated foods as well as the occasional internet recipe. Usually a large portion of it gets packed out to the nearest garbage can.

I made my own pot cozies from closed-cell foam (Military sleeping pad) and another from an "aluminized bubblewrap" windshield solar shade. Both work very well.

Back to the White Box stove, how does it compare to a Swedish mess kit brass burner in weight and heat output?

-Blast

I guess that there is freezer bag cooking, and then there is freezer bag cooking. I have been known to make an omlette in a bag; eggs, milk, cheeze, ham, whatever. Pour hot water into that and all you will have is a big mess...

I like a lot of the Mountain House stuff... Then again, I like MREs...

I'm curious to try out some of these recipes... I also have a vacuum storage system, so I could really make these in advance and store them.

I think the key to getting a good tasting freezer bag meal is to assemble your own, which the website makes about as simple as possible. Its actually easier than it sounds. It means buying some ingredients, and choosing some good brands - low salt bullion, veggies, meat etc for instance tends to make everything taste better. If you like Mountain House meals you're basically doing the freezer bag thing, probably not as cheap or as nutritious as the cookbook makes it. The author makes it her job to scout out local stores for new offerings, try them out, and post on her website or in her blog what tastes good and what doesn't. I seem to recall she once worked for an Asian food importer, so the concept of pre-assembled / pre-cooked meals like ramen and other stuff isn't lost on her, but all in all you can have a better time and keep it healthier putting together a bowl of noodles and vegetables on your own.

I have found that owning a dehydrator and drying some of your own ingredients is a good idea for keepings costs down, and keeping the quality up. I'm not religious about it though, if she identifies a good deal at a local grocery store I'll just go buy that. Trader Joes has some good stuff, especially some low salt bullion that comes in vegetable, beef or chicken and is stored in little sleeves that are really handy for hiking. Asian grocery markets also have some key ingredients you may not find other places (curry mixes etc).

Its an infectious concept though - I think we all grew up on freezer bag omlettes, once you turn some Scouts onto this way of cooking though you end up with freezer bag pizza, apple crumbles etc etc - and with alot less preparation or cleanup than any other Scout meal I've tasted. Its all helped along by the fact that you've just hiked 7 miles, cheese coated freezer bag cardboard would taste pretty good.

Sorry Blast I don't have a Swedish mess kit so I don't know. I was kind of curious about the WBS before ordering because I couldn't locate dimensions or much of anything about it. Right now I reckon the WBS weighs maybe a shy ounce, the aluminum windscreen and aluminum 'groundcloth' (a square to protect what's underneath from the heat of the stove) maybe 2-3 more ounces. (I will go home and weigh these for an actual weight). Heat output was pretty healthy, don't know the BTUs, but alcohol created enough heat to feel it very hot about a foot above the WBS when I took the kettle off. I filled the neck of the stove up with fuel about 1/4 inch from the top of the allowable fuel area (before the neck of the stove widens), and that was about twice as much fuel as I needed to boil 2 cups of water in about 4 minutes. If Bill from MT wants to provide some details and dimensions that may be better than me, and saves me from hauling out a camera and producing a full review. As I said, I've only boiled water for tea in this so far, but from the design I reckon if I were using dirty alcohol and gummed up the works a bit, the stove appears to be field serviceable with something that I usually carry in the field (pipe cleaners and a knife). Impressive amount of heat for the fuel I used, which tells me it should make a decent freezer bag meal this weekend when I'm out with my son.