I am currently starting to put togeter a larger survival kit to go in a backpack when hiking/ travelling. This are my initial ideas for what it should contain.

No. Signals Group
1 Whistle
1 Signal Mirror

Emergency Devices Group
1 Mora Training knife?
1 Sharpening Stone?
1 Flint and Striker
? Tinder
25 Wind/waterproof matches
1 Wire
1 Wire Saw
1 Compass
1 Fishing Kit
1 Esbit Pocket Stove, 6 Fuel Tabs
1 Torch
2 Scalpel Blades

Shelter & Personal Protection Group
1 Space Blanket
1 Lip Salve
1 Goggles?
1 Pair of Gloves

Medical Group
1 Bandage
? Plasters
? Paracetemal

Water and Food Group
? Tea
? Sugar
50 Water Purification tablets
1 Water Purification Device
1 Water Container
1 Spoon

Miscellaneous/ multi purpose Group
1 Tape
? Parachute Cord
? Candle
1 Survival Booklet
1 Container
? Paper
1 Pen
1 Tweezers
1 Sewing Kit
? Duct Tape

Please post any ideas, changes and additions.
thanks

Plate/cup for water or food preparation and acctual food?

Matt

ah yes, i forgot to add something to cook in. The container that holds it may possibly be a mess tin/ cooking pot. I dont want the kit to get to big but i might put a bit of food in, at least seasonings

Some stuff I'd consider adding to a larger kit...

-Butterfly bandages or Steri-strips for larger wounds
-Trauma bandage or panty liners or gauze or handkerchief to control bleeding
-bottle of povidone iodine or a bunch of swabs
-alcohol swabs for general cleaning and tinder
-toothpick
-fresnel lens
-antidiarrhretic
-antihistamine
-decongestant
-nylon cord in addition to or in place of paracord
-plastic, nylon, or silnylon poncho in addition to or in place of space blanket
-butane lighter for redundancy and convenience
-consider using mirror-type compass in place of small compass and signal mirror
-set a limit on how many days the kit should support you, and include water tabs and meds only enough for that time
-if by water purification device you mean a filter, you might consider using a second chemical method like Aqua Mira or sublimated iodine crystals (smaller, less likely to fail)
-I like the Esbit stove (also purifies water by boiling) but you will need a metal pot. Maybe your kit container? Look at the MSR Stowaway pots. The handle latches the lid shut.
-take a sharpening stone you know you can use. I need a round stone, and a ceramic rod or diamond rod works well for me. Also the Spyderco ceramic files provide both round and flat and grooved surfaces.
-unwaxed, plain dental floss for hygeine and strong thread

Hope that helps some...

Bear

Ditch,

I think you need to define what you want to survive with this kit.

IE: give us some parameters to work with.

How heavy?
What volume?
How long will you need it?
What you want to accomplish with it?

Mike

the stuff the other guys said plus add some aluminium foil, maybe sunscreen, insect repeliant ( if there are a lot to bugs ).
you could replace the spoon with a Spork ( spoon fork combo )
and you could throw in a garbage/survival bag in it ( they make mylar version 2 )

Pete,
I'd throw in a Sam splint and a couple of triangular bandages and some cyalumes. How are you going to carry this kit? I'd suggest fitting as much as possible in a set of mess tins, although you may be pushing it size wise. Then placing it in a small frameless daysack or bumbag sort of thing and keep it at the top of your main pack. An alternative would be something like a PLCE waterbottle pouch slipped onto the waist belt of your rucksac.

My tuppence worth.

Johno

What you've got here so far is a travel kit. What I call an On-The-Way kit (OTW) - a kit that will help you get from the place where the danger is to a predetermined "Safe" place that is no more than three-days hike from you when you start out. OTOH, if you don't have a "safe" destination or don't have a reasonable chance of predicting how long it will take you to get there then you need to prepare for a over-the-road scenario (OTR) rather than an on-the-way scenario. In an OTR scenario you essentially need to be self-contained indefinately. In an OTW scenario you are traveling light in the expectation that you will be able to re-stock at least if not dig in long term when you get to destination and that destination will be reached quickly. If you can reasonably expect to reach destination within three days then all the food you should bother with is some high protien food bars and a water filter or iodine tablets. Dispense with all food prep equip. dispense with all but defensive weapons. Travel light, discreetly and fast. If you have any reason to doubt that you will reach "safe" haven within three days you are in the OTR scenario. In this scenario you need even more discretion but can travel somewhat heavier and slower. (after all you haven't really got anyplace to go - You are only fleeing. <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />) In this situation you need to pack food gathering and preparation supplies as well as water treatment supplies. As far as First aid supplies go, in the OTR situation you will need treatment supplies and in the OTW scenario you only need stabilization and evac supplies. As far as shelter goes, in the OTR situation you need to be able to setup a camp and defend it. In the OTW scenario you might simply stay moving day and night till you reach destination and crash. Think carefully whether you can depend upon the ability to reach destination quickly. The chances of this can be greatly increased if you can position supply that can be accessed along a longer route or in multiple possible destinations in alternative directions. For example if you can stash some supplies at your aunt's house and some at your in-laws on the opposite side of town. Or if you can leave some in a locker at a depot or a self storage unit on the out-skirts of town in the direction of your country home etc. I wouldn't recommend geo-caching except in an extreme situation. stowing the geo-cache is hard enough on public lands but liberating it when all the country-side is in a panic is likely to be even more difficult. geo-caching is probably only good in making your country-side hunting hut capable of becoming much more than it seems.

I agree with Mike - what you put in your survival kit depends on what you expect you'll need it for.

What are you worried about? The "OhmigodtheydroppedtheBomb" scenario, or a "Gee, that's funny - I could have sworn the carpark was just over this ridge" scenario?

If you're backpacking, then everything you carry is, en effet, part of your survival kit. Why do you need a specific kit in your rucksack? If you want a smaller kit that you can clip onto your belt for short side trips (just in case the weather turns nasty and you can't find your way back), that's one thing. If you want a kit that you'll still have with you when you fall into the river and jettison your main pack, then you obviously don't want the SK to be in that pack.

Remember, you have to carry all this stuff. Any unnecessary "junk" you stick in there is dead weight. Sure, a SAM splint (as one poster suggested) would be nice to have, but how necessary is it? I'd prefer to take the equivalent weight in protein bars and jury-rig a splint from tree-branches or a packframe, if necessary.

fair comment about the splint, I dont know why but I just like them. Must be a fetish thing, plus of course I can get them for free.

Johno

HAHA,

I also agree with wolfe,

The SAM splint is a great nifty piece of FA equipment but hardly a must have piece of gear. I would trade off the volume weight of it for real mil spec para cord or duct tape anyday.

I own several (in house and car trunk kits) and they are great splints but are bulky and can be improvised very easily.

SK's range from the paranoid complete to the arrogantly incomplete. From a million dollar fully equipped mountain hideaway to a credit card and everything in between.

That being said there are bad, good and best choices for gear and rational for any level. It all depends on the item and your budget.

Mike

my thoughts were a PLCE water bottle pouch and mess tins. About a year ago I bought an olive green utility pouch for that purpose, but have now decided to use a water bottle pouch instead as you can clip it onto your belt instead of having to slide it on. This is fine as I already own two sets of olive green 90 pat. webbing with an excess of water bottle pouchs. Where do you purchase SAM splints?
thanks

I did write survival bag (I called it a space blanket). I would rather have a spork but the only one ive ever seen is a titanium one on tad gear for about £20. I dont think i'd pay that for a fork!

I intend for this kit to be used when hiking on hills in UK. It will either by thrown into a daysack or clipped on a belt. It is not an evacuation kit. There is not much need for that in rural Somerset. I live on the doorstep of the Somerset levels, for any of you who know then. They are suseptable to flooding, but I live on a hill so I don't even get that. No definatly no need for evacuation. <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Ditch,

This may give you some ideas.

My bob is split up into modules like some other people have done.

My first module is based on a fanny pack with items on the belt as well.

This pack is kept in the car and can be grabbed fast. Its intent is to be able to get home from anywhere locally <20 miles and grab the full BOB.

Realtree camo soft material fanny pack. Its got a good web belt, zipper and buckle for heavy use. Wallmart $15.

On fanny pack belt:

Magazine pouch: with large Blue civi poncho, same specs as military but lighter and less bulky, gromets for tie down shelter etc...
Cold steel SRK, with Gatco diamond hone and pouch glued to front of sheath.
Leatherman Wave

Fanny pack Front 2 pockets:

1 Silva Ranger compass
1 Bic lighter
10 fabric bandaides
1 chapstick
1 sunblock spf 30 small tube
1 Iodine bottle tabs 25 litres worth of purification
$20 mixed bills and change in zip lock bag
$50 phone card

Fanny pack main compartment:

6 chemical heat packs (its winter here) will change for bug juice in summer
small roll of duct tape, flattened and rubber banded
6 wet wipes
2 alcohol disinfectant wipes
1 small tube of campers liquid soap
1 hotel soap bar
4 power bars
10 hard candies
1 small first aid kit (adventure medical, pocket medic)
Small plastic meds vial containing:
10 aspirin
10 motrin
10 tylenol
15 Doxicycline Antibiotic
10 Immodium
5 benadryl

Small role of tums

2 Niosh N95 rated surgical masks (will filter airborne TB, anthrax etc..) Zip locked baged, will use duct tape to ensure tight seal if warranted.
2 pairs nitrile medical exam gloves, better than latex.

1 camo OD triangular bandage
50 ft Para cord the real stuff.
20 coffee filters and rubber bands
1 space bag (not the blanket but the bag)
2 HEAVY duty contractors garbage bags, green
1 8 hr candle
20 ft of brass snare wire
1 Film canister of waxed strike anywhere matches, lid duct taped
1 Film canister of vaseline soaked cotton balls, lid duct taped
1 gerber strike force
1 AA black minimag with black nite eyes head strap, extra bulb and red night lens filter
6 AA batteries
1, 1 litre platypus water container
1 Very small hotel sewing kit, size of book of matches
Altoids tin fishing kit:
200 ft of 50lb spider wire fishing line
40 dif size hooks
20 dif size weights
15 swivels
5 leaders
a dozen assorted lures, worms, wigglies, spinners etc..

Photocopies of:
Health Insurance
Drivers liscence
Birth certificate
Proof of address
Innsurance documents
All vacum sealed in plastic

$100 in various bills zip lock bagged

End

This kit is designed to be the core of my BOB, because of expense duplication was not possible for some items.

YES, it all does fit haha. I had to vacum pack it to reduce bulk but it does fit just.

This core kit is not light, it weighs 6-7 pounds, it carries nice around the waist tho. It should get me out of all kinds of trouble while returning home to the main kit, and serve well as the core for the main BOB.
Also in the car is a FULL change of clothes from underwear to outerwear to boots. Items will chage with seasons. 5 days worth of car stable foods and water also in trunk. Of course your typical car breakdown gear also included.

I came up with list by taking ideas from others posts and putting together what suites me. This kit is not cheap approx $350 not including the cash. I figure it will be worth it if needed tho.
I also have a duplicate kit for the wife with a few substitutions/mods IE: USAF knife, gerber multiplier, some female related stuff but essentially the same.

I carry always on my person: 3 inch SAK, Wallet with credit cards, cell phone, Bic lighter,
AAA minimag and leatherman micra on the key chain, CPR kit.


Any thoughts? I am always looking for new ideas.

Mike

No offense meant, so I'm glad none was taken. I would suppose a SAM splint is great if you're on a SAR mission and you have reasonable expectation of finding the party injured. Also, I would at least consider bringing one if it was a large group outing (maybe 6 or more) for several days, especially in rough terrain; I might reasonably expect to use a more comprehensive FAK in that situation. But if it's just me and one or two friends, and it's only for a couple of days (planned), I personally would take a handful of granola bars instead. It's a personal choice.

A powerbar or two of food will be good measure, and to me it's worth the extra weight. During the initial anxiety, I feel that readily handy food is a great calmer, and good for when the squirrel hunting doesnt go as planned. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Youhave obviously put a lot of thought into your kit. I, too, am carrying a loaded fanny pack more and more. Definitely holds more than an Altoids tin.

One thing I would suggest is to substitute LEDs for the minimags you are carying. You will be able to increase your effective illumination time while cutting back on the number of batteries you are carrying. I have been carrying a Petzl Tikka for the last eighteen months and it has seen regular, although not heavy use. It is still on the original set of batteries. I used it for about forty-five minutes recently during a power outage and it provided perfectly adequate light. There is at least one highly regarded LED conversion kit for the AA minimag, although it costs about $26.

Then you would have room for an elastic bandage, a key item for my FAKs. Not all will agree with that choice, but if walking might be on the agenda, I want to be able to hold ankles and knees together.

Don,

HAHA don't get me wrong I would love to carry A Lot more but one must limit the space and weight or it becomes too much.

One note, I do not carry this on me at all times but is always within a few hundred yards at most in the car trunk.

The public has a problem with sheath knives on the belt.

I do carry some minimum stuff in my pockets as noted at the bottom of the list. Like I said this kit is to get me home, back to my full BOB kit.

I like the LED replacement module idea for the minimag.
I think I will keep the minimag for now because I have used the tika and other such lights and the durability is in question IMHO. The tikka and zipka are not waterproof and have flimsy plastic cases and I am hard on my gear. There are other LED headlamp options that are more durable like the Princton Tech Aurora, but it is too large and bulky for my fanny pack kit but I think I may get one for the full BOB.

I like the ace wrap idea but have no more room for it. I could however steal one from the FA kit in the trunk and stash it in my pocket if I have to grab the fanny pack and run.

I too love Dougs altoid tin SK. I am in the process of making one up identical for me and the wife. However, the only reason to have one is that it is with you ALL the time because of its size. I think Doug will admit that it is not designed for anything real serious but rather a stop gap measure with some basic tools for a limited time frame.


Mike

You might consider the Princeton Tec "Attitude" (($17) instead of the LED conversion for the mini mag. See Doug's review as well as that at www.candlepowerforums.com.

Our kits are geared toward our own individual needs, or that of ourselves and a partner. Lets imagine we are on a hike in England. From what I have observed, the biggest concern is exposure to the elements. What would you do,or be able to provide, should you discover another hiker in distress? Food, warm fluids and some spare clothing ( mittens, dry socks watch caps at a minimum) might make the difference. We worry about social breakdowns and defending our supplies and preparations. I submit a prepared person has assumed a superior leadership role in helping others when able.

The ability to help others in distress is extremely important in preparing and equipping to survive as a community. If my psk / bob equipment and survival training helps me to live through a situation or social collapse or even short-term disruption then I may live through the situation only to find that what I return to is not worth the trip. I think that in this arena the training and knowledge is even more important than in the case of individual survival. Only in a true wilderness situation are you likely to find another individual in distress who doesn't also bring with them some equippement. Good knowledge on trauma first aid and other SAR technique combined with a macgyver approach to imporvisation can help an individual to utilize the resources that they have and help them to live another day. Accomplishing that type of aid for others will naturally place you in a position of leadership. Once in a position of leadership you will need knowledge and training of how to organize teams for larger goals and how to accomplish larger tasks. If you are trying to survive individually you probably won't need to know how to build a bridge. OTOH if you have a major quake and are totally cut off and someone needs to get out, some basic structural engineering will come in quite handy once you have a team of enough individuals to lift and position large beams or tree trunks. I am sure that there are other scenarios that will require squad level numbers of people and the training to know what to do with them.

Skills I would consider helpful in helping others

EMT Basic

Wilderness SAR

Structural evacuation and stabilization

Radio repair and use

Auto repair and maintenance

Basic log structures

Basic smelting and smithing

One more skill is the simple act of hugging each other <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> This skill is easily learned from grandparents <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

something that i have in my kit that you might want to consider,is a little container of salt.
good for:
-brushing teeth
-mouth rinse for cankers and the like
-eye wash saline( half teaspoon salt to 1 cup clean water)
-ingrown toenail fix(make a paste with salt,apply and put
bandage over,stings for a minute but works great)
-taken with water ,mildly diluted,can help relieve effects of heat exhaustion(cramps,headache,faintness,etc..)
-and for food!

Monkey,

Great idea thanks. Never thought of salt or salt depletion.

Mike

Thanks for the hug Dude!

I love Sam splints not becasue they are perfect for big injuries but becasue they are even better for small ones. A lot of injuries that are common among my friends while kayaking, camping and hiking are small parts related. Jamed/broken fingers and toes can be treated with improvised splints but there is nothing that can substitute for SAM splint and a pair of shears. You can create caddies for an injured part, you can make them into different shapes.



And you don't have to roll it either. Just bend it to the shape of something (canteen, bottom of the pack). I just take with me one small sheet that fits in the back/front of my canteen (U shape folded). So far I used it for a broken finger, toe and for a broken wrist.

Matt