So I migrated my BOB to a new edition of the same pack (maxpedition) and found out some of my food had spoiled and opened.

My powerbars were smooshed, cracked, and oozing, not one was in 'good' condition. My pack is ~3 years old and I use it when I go camping, 4wheeling and ATV'n... it rides strapped to the back of one of them. I don't use things in it regularly but I do access it occasionally. I also had some beef jerky in there that was sealed and super greasy, and I was able to break it in half it had dried out so much.

On a + side my sardines were in perfect condition Also my mainstay was still holding up but the food in side had def. loosened up and was no longer tight in the vacuum seal.

Another thing to take note of was my trioxane tablets had almost made it through their mil. wrapper!! This could be extremely dangerous and bad if it was near your food supply as it is not healthy at all.

So, it seems anything with an aluminum/metal type wrapper has cracked, ripped at the seams or got a hole poked into it.

What are you keeping in your BOB to eat that can handle real every-weekend type carry?

If I had room I would use a nalgene bottle to hold the items that can be crushed but my pack is full!

-Todd

ToddW:
I use the Millennium bars, after being in my pack for Two years they still are tight. you can find them at www.beprepared.com
I must admit that they usally don't last that long before I eat them.
this will take you right to them:
http://beprepared.com/search.asp?t=ss&ss=millennium+bar

I would look for a small Pelican case or something similar to put them. You are already using that space anyway. I would also look for a way to compartmentalize in order to maximize the space. Also, look at shifting things out.

Re-evaluate the entire pack and see if something needs to be removed/added. I believe Hacksaw and Taurus re-evaluate their packs about every six hours or so it seems.

Either way, empty the pack and rethink it.

I removed items when switching packs I go through mine about once a year and remove/add items at that time. My biggest changes have been the realization of to many of the same thing. I have gear in my vehicles already, and this is like an extra-extra-safety net kind of thing since I don't hike with this it's only with me in my truck, quad, atv, jeep etc... so my 2 spare pair of socks in my BOB is pointless since I have 2 spare in my jeep. So I cut down to 1 spare in my BOB and that sort of thing. On a side note I did bring my BOB on a jeep trip w/a friend in his jeep and I did eat a power bar after we broke down and almost had to spend the night (then I could have used my hammock and other gear!!).

Great idea on the pelican case i`ll have to check those out

I have "sub-packs" (compartments I guess).. I have 4. Stove/Cups/Related. First Aid. Water Purification. Clothes.

I def. would not want to hike far with this but I could, and I could break it down by removing some packs and giving them to someone else to carry or holding in my hand to stabilize differently.

Another thing I noticed while taking apart the pack and putting it in a new one was I didn't have any source of renewable fire starting. I had matches, I had a $/bling wind-proof ligther but no blast match or firesteel (other than in handle of knife).

I used to have my entire kit on a post here but I think the pictures went away. I`ll have to make a new one soon.

Thanks I`ll have to get some and see how they do.

Link to old post about the BOB pics are gone.. I`ll re-upload soon:

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.ph...=true#Post66266

And as a side note I still have items to add from my old list

For food in water tight containers, I'd look more at a Lock'n'Lock container- lighter, less expensive, and more efficent in terms of space. You can run them over with a car without having them fail, but if you are looking for a second string of water protection and crush proofing, it will be might work out better in the long run.

What I keep stored is rotated out of BOB every six months.

As a suggestion, don't know if this can/would work for your set up, but you say that a nalgene bottle could work if you had the space for it. Since you are using a maxpedition pack which should have a plethora of PALS webbing points, is it feasable to attach either a small rolly polly or their new water bottle pouches to your pack? I'm thinking the rolly polly if you wanted the ability to collapse the pouch when not in use, the water bottle pouch if you wanted to squeak a little extra pocket space (they have a zippered pouch on the side). Just an option.

-Bill Liptak

IronRaven,

These http://www.organize.com/lolofostco.html look interesting for some other uses in packs - which sizes are you using, functionality, weight, good and bad points, etc, please.

IOW, review 'em for us, please!

They are cheap enough in the sizes I looked at that I am thinking about scouts PFAK in the very small sizes.

Tom

If your Mainstay bars are loose, then you've lost seal and those can't be trusted. I had some arrive that way in a shipment from SOSFoodLabs (different company, same type of thing -- they make the Millenium bars, too). When I called SOS, they asked me to throw them away and sent free replacements.

I've had the same problem with Mainstay rations. I thought I was saving money by buying the 3600s. I noticed right away after it happened so I wrapped them in wax paper and put them in the freezer. Now I take them as disposable rations when I go hiking or fishing. If I need them, fine and if I don't they get tossed when I get home.

+1 on canned food. The one emergency food I stash which I'm certain will survive over everything else in the bag are the smoked oysters. Packed in oil so if I'm really down on energy I can drink it for the fat it contains.

(lol) true my friend, so true. Keep in mind though, unlike most people I know I actually USE my gear almost every day.

I don't have a problem with my food spoiling because it gets used fairly quickly and then replaced. If not using my gear for work, then I spend every available second outside in the woods doing something so my gear is constantly being used and inspected. Even for those areas where the storage is more long term(like the stash I keep in my truck) I rotate the food and water every month.

In MHO you should dump your bag out and inspect every single item at least once a month depending on how much it is used. As was noted, things like solid fuel, bic lighters, batteries etc etc will all need periodic checking. For food items I find that I would rather rotate them more frequently than spend money on some expensive storage case to put it in and leave it for two years.

Tupperware (or rubbermaid) containers are great for keeping food un-squished ( first aid kits too) and dry / dust free. Plus they come in a huge variety of sizes and shapes

Teacher

You might consider ditching the trioxane in favor of a less toxic alternative-either a candle-based or a methanol-fueled system. The ultralight folks have developed pot-stove-windscreen combinations that weigh essentially nothing. Switch the edibles to that historic survival staple, nature's perfect food: Vienna sausages. Durable, good hot or cold, and they have enough nitrates on board that you can dry them out and make gunpowder of them. They are made out of parts of the pigs, cows and chickens that would be wasted otherwise, so eating them is an environmentally positive act. The cans make a neat little methanol stove-you can crimp the lip and achieve a snap-in fit on the bottom of a 24 oz heineken can to create a poor man's jetboil.
For way too much stove information, see
http://zenstoves.net/.

For vienna sausage serving hints, see http://www.mountainsoul.net/vienna.html.

For vienna sausage ingredient list, see
http://www.findagrave.com/meatpage/ingredients.html

If you like what you see on the second site, you might should skip the third site.

To help keep the supplies in my BOB in good shape I have taken to wrapping the individual packages in newspaper. I have found that it increases the odds they make it long-term intact and have noticed they also seem to deteriorate a little more slowly simply due to age.

Newspaper is pretty tough stuff in resisting puncture and friction wear in a pack. It is also a fairly good insulator. More even and moderated temperature swings may explain the slower aging process.

The newsprint is light and quite useful in a survival situation as padding, insulation, and tinder.

I also use the Mainstay bars. I just wrap each in a full sheet of newsprint. It puts three or more layer between it and anything that might puncture or wear a hole in the laminate wrapping. Wrapped this way I have never had one come up holed. Each gets the newsprint wrapping and then four go into a large freezer bag. Which rides in a stuff sack.

I have thought about using white butcher's paper, standard brown wrapping paper and/or pink rosin paper but newsprint is free and I always have some around. The white or brown papers would be good for writing field memoirs and I once made a set of functional insoles out of four layers of rosin paper. They were surprisingly comfortable and lasted a long time considering what they were.

I also like to carry a few cans of food. Mostly soup that can be eaten out of the can. Can provide a rich broth or, worked with a spoon, a mash for anyone unable to eat regular food. A quick source of energy. They also are a secondary source of a small amount of water in case everything else falls through. The cans also have many uses. Everything from cooking pot, mug, small hobo stove, makeshift spear or knife.

I always like the look I get when people see a couple of cans in my kit. Everyone assumes they are an extra burden. But the way I see it the food inside and cans themselves are pretty light. The real weight is in the water content. Water you would have to carry anyway. IMO the effective difference in weight is small and the potential benefit fairly large.

MREs, Clif bars between meals, Mainstay bars as a reserve and a couple of cans of soup to fill the gaps covers it for manpacked food and ready-to-go BOB.

And each page of newspaper is dated,,,,which reminds you how old each article wrapped up in a newspaper, actually is.

During WWII, columbia-presbyterian hospital in NYC ran short of cloth wrappers for wrapping sterile surgical supplies-so they used newsprint. Fast forward to 1985: during some renovations, a cache of sterile instruments was uncovered, wrapped in newsprint and dated during the war years. Some of the packs were taken to the bacteriology lab, swabbed, and cultured: still sterile. Nurse midwives delivering babies in rural homes in Appalachia used to establish a clean-nearly-sterile field for their instruments by laying newsprint on the table and work surfaces. Unfortunately, the print news industry is circling the drain, and we will soon lose access to this useful material.

The packaging for Clif bars is essentially bullet proof. Several have spent years wallowing around in the bottoms of my packs; the packaging has never been breeched. The bars themselves are a pretty decent food-like substance.

I hadn't really thought of either of those useful aspects. Both points in favor of newsprint. It isn't a miracle material but it has a lot of uses.

Old time hobos used newsprint, wrapped around the body underneath your clothes, to increase the insulation. the trick is to crumple and then reflatten each piece individually before tucking it in. It softens and fluffs the paper a bit and the resulting wrinkles don't line up between the sheets so you end up with lots of little air pockets that increase the insulation value.

Six or seven layers worked this way and tucked flat into a trash bag,to keep the paper dry, makes a ground pad that goes a long way to keeping you warm even if you have to sleep on snow.

A few layers worked in the same way and cut to size and used as an insole can go a long way to keeping your feet from freezing if your caught in the woods with shoes more adapted for street use.

Related: Sandwich bags put over your socks and just covering the toes can help keep your toes from freezing without causing you to sweat. Which might defeat the purpose.

On the fun side once caught in an extended rainstorm and pretty much confined to tents I tore up the paper finely and mixed in a little rainwater and some pancake mix for binder. We had fun making papermache figures and drying them over the stove while making supper.

I suspect that the same paper mush might make a good base for a poultice. I would use a strong tea of the active ingredient as the liquid and hold it in place with a bandage or cloth.

I would switch to Esbit over Trioxane, it burns a little hotter and doesn’t seem to have the contamination problem you talked about. But it does have a slight smell while burning, but not that bad. An alcohol stove may also be a good choice, I would go with the Trangia, it has a few features other alcohol stoves don’t. it’s very durable (most alcohol stoves are home made and quite fragile) and it can be sealed up and put away with fuel still in it. With all other alcohol stoves you have to wait till it burns out before you put it away.




What are you keeping in your BOB to eat that can handle real every-weekend type carry?

Can food is pretty much bullet proof when it comes to storage and rough use in a pack.


GSI makes some strong, waterproof storage cases. Not small, but very tough. Nalgene bottles work great, I use them for food in a cooler when camping. Shredded cheese in a zip lock, in a cooler always seems to get water logged. Not so when I put it in a Nalgene.

They make smaller Nalgene bottles (14-oz instead of the 32 oz bottles) they are 2/3 the height and ½ as big around. But they cost $6.00 for them. I have 3 or 4 of them and find them handy.

The ONLY reason I have Trioxane is due to the extreme heat it burns at. (So I can easier light wet/damp tender.) If you have not used it then you don't understand how hot it gets. It gets hotter than esbit and lights easier I have tested and compared. The trioxane caught my windscreen (al) on fire. (I have tested every product I could get my hands on and have a HUGE review that I need to post still.)

Thanks for the info about cliff bars i`ll have to get those again they taste great and I used to have boxes of them.

Art_in_FL- I have 3 cans of sardines The power bars are a first resort energy supplement like when we broke down and I needed a boost I don't think I`ll be adding any cans of soup, maybe some dried packets of potatoes you get at the supermarket due to the high carb content and super light weight (require water). Maybe 1 can of tuna and 2 packets of potatoes.

Great suggestions everyone!

I just threw 4 Vector cereal bars into my SAR vest. 4 bars = 1000 calories and lots of vitamins. They don't keep forever but long enough for me.

That plus some trail mix plus a can of smoked oysters is more than enough to keep me going for 24 hours if it comes to that.

Israeli customs won't let food into the country by mail. Does anyone here know of an MRE or Mainstay distributor abroad?

I would recommend rotating your food more often. I tend to pack stuff I'd eat anyway so as it gets older just replace it with new food and eat the old stuff for lunch one weekend. Otherwise, putting softer foods in Tupperware or packing canned foods sound like the most durable options. I carry my lunch in a larger tupperware container to keep it from getting crushed by my books, works like a charm and as long as things are packed well it doesn't add much in the way of bulk or weight. It doesn't have to be completely crush proof to protect your food, a Nalgene is probably over kill.

Have any of you ever tried a canning machine? It would seem to lend itself to the survivalist person and all kinds of things could be sealed up for future use.

I just did a search for “Home Canning Machine” and this web site came up in the search. But they want $1300.00 and I can’t find any mention of what new cans cost. The web site doesn’t have a lot of info on it.


http://www.cansealer.com/

Check out the Master model.
http://www.aaoobfoods.com/cansealers.htm#top

Wow, you can get a lot of pre-cooked / frozen food storage for 600-2400 those bad boys go for!

Check with your local LDS (Mormon) church before investing a lot of money. Because of the directive that all Mormon families should have a years' worth of food on hand, many of them collectively own sophisticated canning/sealing hardware. The second tenet of Mormonism (pardon my blasphemy, not religious) seems to be "make a profit," (hey, there's a reason their symbol is a beehive) so they wisely rent out the time that their assets sit unused. When I lived in Boise (LDS population second only to SLC) I also found a large reservoir of food storage knowledge that they were willing to share. Of course there is proselytizing attached to it, but Mormons are self-sufficient, intelligent and hard-working people who recognize and respect the same values in others.

I take the concept of a "BOB" as supplies to get you from where you are to where you need to be. Simple enough to get you to where you are out of danger and to your secondary location. Supplies should be available at this second location. For me, I carry Mountian House dehydrated foods. I have tried all of their offerings and have chosen the ones that taste good to me. I normally carry six meals (each meal is designed for two people)in my pack at all times. I can rotate these out every few months ad so far have had no problems. I use a JetBoil stove to heat the water and a Steripen purifier. So far, no problems and I'm set for 3 days or a little longer if I want to ration a bit.

Hmm, the oldest food in any of my packs presently is a half dozen Hoo-ah bars I absconded from Baghdad with. They are wrapped up together and bound tightly with nylon straps. The bars have deformed from the compression, but they otherwise cannot displace inside the straps, so they and their wrappers remain intact, despite being in my pack since mid-2005. I opened up the wad the other day and ate one of them. They are about the same as I remember them being.

Those Crystal light plastic cannisters I have would be pretty darned handy for food storage, in fact, that is what I have my Smuckers single serving peanut butter tubs loaded into. The lids are tight enough (not water tight on their own, but plenty secure) that a wrap of duct tape around the top and lid, and then a couple wraps longitudinally overlapped would fairly seal those cannisters, and they are just rigid enough they are not going to be incidentally squished (you'd have to do something like fall on or sit on your pack to compromise them, and even then they might be strong enough to resist if they are full and taped up).

I'm a big fan of the Moutain House foods. Just have to invest a little time and money into finding the ones you like to eat.

I also tend to take a 2 person helping and split it into two vacuum packed bags. A little boiling water and you are good to go.

I like these also, there are about 6 varieties. They are similar in consistency to things like the Mainstay rations and other lifeboat style rations I've tried, but, they are individually wrapped. They are shipped in some of the MRE's I've bought from Long Life Foods at times, but, I've been buying them separately now for a while.

I keep them in our car kits, and usually have a few in any daypack/backpack I'm hiking with. Problem is, as you noted, they actually taste ok, so my son and his buddies eat them like snacks sometimes... I went to rotate the ones in my truck a couple weeks ago, and found out that they were all consumed following a lacrosse game at some point. It was my fault, I was informed, because I hadn't brought pizza to the field for after the game

I guess I'm trained to know it's my fault anyway after 20+ years of marriage...