So the universe seems to feel it would be a good idea for me to start over. I am trying to engineer a soft landing from business failure, foreclosure, etc. As I am currently single I can move just about anywhere.

Is there a better place to live than central California?

Cleaner air, water, more outdoor opportunities?

Your thoughts welcome.

Re: your question "a better place...", damn near anywhere. Were it me, given you'r criteria for water, air outdoors, etc, I might opt to look at Idaho, Montana, Wyoming. Oregon and Washington are tooooo liberal/PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. for me, with too many old hippies. Out east is almost as congested as California and seem to want to bleed you out tax wise as well.

Yup - the midwest or 'upper midwest' as in the prior post. I'm in MN and was raised in South Dakota and my wife is from Iowa. I too had the opportunity just lately to look at a new job and was able to work it out so we could stay in MN but when I was looking, one given was to stay away from the coast or the south.

We're looking at retirement in about ten years and may consider the southwest - but Wyoming is still the top choice. with your criteria, most of the small town or rural midwestern states will fill the bill. If you are looking for more urban environment resources (job is high tech or whatever) try the smaller cities like Minneapolis, Des Moines etc. Sioux Falls South Dakota has a really large health care and financial business culture as an example. Good luck on your search.

You might cast a "look around" towards:

central/western Missouri (Rolla);

Arkansas (Little Rock area, Ft Smith, Rogers),

Northern and central Louisiana (Shreveport, Monroe, Alexandria//We've got the best politicians and police that money can buy);

Mississippi (Jackson, Meridian, Natchez)

Tennessee (Memphis; Nashville)

Texas (Houston, Beaumont, Dallas-Ft. Worth)

I mention certain cities to highlight certain areas that I know are very nice. Keep in mind that wages are lower in the south because the cost of living is also lower
(Greatly drastically lower cost of living than California)

What's wrong with up north CA? Sierra Nevada Mountains... or even Reno or other high dessert. Pollock Pines, Strawberry, Tahoe City, Kyburz, Somerset, Placerville are some from way up there to not to far out.

I think you'd be better off figuring out what you want first, then look for a location that fits the bill. What are the outdoor activities you enjoy the most? How is the market for your specialty in that area? What area specific natural disasters are you more willing to tolerate? Check out air quality reports for areas you like, etc, etc. Sometimes it helps to work backwards and ask yourself a hypothetical. "If I just won the lottery and money was no issure, where would my dream location be?"

IMO there are no perfect locations. Too often I see people moving to start over and they bring their problems with them and recreate the situation they fled from.

This happens on an interpersonal and psychological level and environmentally. Arizona used to be the place to go for low pollen counts. Problem is the people who moved there brought their flowers with them. Now major cities in Arizona have pollen counts about as high as the rest of the country.

Yes, there are significant differences between locations. But in many ways they are all alike.

You are very correct Art but EVERY PLACE HAS IT'S STOPAR.

Stopar is that animal, vegetable, and/or mineral that is a natural hazard to settlement. I learned that from a Sci-Fi novel and life has shown the truth of it to me over time.

After working and driving/camping in the 11 western states for the last 10 years on my preveious job ( now retired) Try Swan Valley Idaho. but you better like the 4 seasons.

"...Is there a better place to live than central California?..."


Since we are currently (and temporarily thank God) in Central CA again, I have to say that just about anywhere would be better.

If you want to stay in CA, we have a couple of lots in Alturas we just put on the market, we could give you a deal on the price...

Arizona seems to be a pretty decent place. Lots of outdoors if you want it, and a major metro area if you want/need that.

We just left SW Arizona after six months there. It does have some nice features...

Hi big_al



http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/326925176_8a815899b8_o.jpg

Swan Valley Idaho, Nice!!

I was going through something like this a few years back. Contracting for a number of years (mid west), and orignally coming from Canada, I took a job in the Caribbean. Now I have a career with a company I like, I have a life I enjoy, and love the island. It took a few years of contracting to figure this one out, but I wouldn't trade the experience for anything.

What better time to try a new place/city/state/country? You never know what could happen, and might find your new home. I did.

Good luck in your search.

There's a lot of good jobs around Houston. The oil business is struggling to find people. There is wilderness around Houston (check my blog) but it's not super.

pforeman was right about Minnesota and South Dakota. They are awesome areas and both had been looking for more workers, especially SD. The wilderness available to you there is stunning and very, very big.

What skill sets do you have? If I remember correctly you worked in a title company, didn't you? Petroleum "Landsmen" use similar skills. They are the ones that track down and buy the mineral rights to land that oil/gas companies want to drill. You spend a lot of time travelling around visiting courthouse records libraries and talking to people out at their ranches. Right now it's a pretty good job if you don't mind living in hotel rooms for two weeks at a shot.

-Blast

There is a ton of stuff going on in Orlando. I have my Master's in Instructional Design and there are gobs of companies in the area. I just don't want to live in Florida; no offense to any current residents of the Sunshine State. Caveat: any booming area will level off and then possibly decline. It is a natural cycle.

Where I am in OKC is too bad. Again, not for me. It has just recently been listed as the most recession/depression resistant city in the country. Again, not for me.

I am actually moving back to a depressed area, my hometown. However, after 26 yrs in the military and 2 years of waiting for my wife to finish college, it is time to go home.

In general, I agree with the upper Midwest, particularly the Twin Cities area. Then again, I like snow!

I know you have cut everything to the bone; keep it that way. Whatever does not fit in your car or BOB you do not need. Start fresh. Live a spartan or simple life. Enjoy that freedom.

Even where I am going in Upstate NY they are looking for these guys. I think they found some promising sites for natural gas. Actually, the area is the "Soaring Capital of the World" near Elmira. I may look into it myself.

More detail:

I have practiced law. I have been a civil law arbitrator many times; a mediator a couple of times. I have taught at law schools, private universities, and as an instructor on various legal and ethics topics. I have organized many professional and recreational events and have often been a speaker.

I am an avid and very quick reader. I am a skilled PC user. I am able to organize lots of information and documents into useful form. I can write well. I take decent photographs.

I have no second language, military, or construction skills worth mentioning. I have enjoyed working as unarmed private security a few times.

I am ready to pack some gear and work overseas, at least for a while.

Ideally, I would like to find two places to live and work: one from which I could flee winter, and a second to which I could flee in winter. In any event my first choice would be a tiny home in the country that I could - but do not have to - develop into a largely-off-the-grid, largely self-sufficient place, so long as I am no further than a couple hours from a university town.

I have been a recreational fisherman all my life, mostly freshwater. I hunted in my teens for various upland birds, and want to expand into mammal hunting. [In my area those activities has devolved into put and harvest, polluted waters, etc.]

So-called primitive skills intrigue me, I have been taking classes, I helped found a club of fellow enthusiasts, and I look forward to getting a more complete skill set. I would like to live somewhere that it is reasonable to go fishing, hunting, plant foraging, etc. with reasonable confidence it is safe to eat and use all of the critters and plants that it is appropriate to harvest.

I thinik Jean-Paul Sartre, the French philosopher, was right when he said : ''Hell... it's the others.''

If I wasn't in a pretty nice spot already (Yukon, Canada has something like 0.2 people per sq. mi.) I'd move to a low density area like Alaska with 1.1 per sq. mi.
Five times more crowded is Wyoming. Montana, N. or S. Dakota. are next.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_density

I currently live near Dayton, OH.

However, my daughter attends IU in Bloomington, IN.

I love it. Small town atmosphere. Plenty of things to do. The University has a vibrant cultural side to it - Sports, Theater, great Opera program. Hoosier National Forest nearby. Indy is only 45 minutes away. Law School too!

I plan to retire there...

They say the market for houses and jobs is really strong in D/FW now...

I get emails and calls all the time from headhunters wanting me to come interview for new positions.

I work in IT doing Database Management and Administration.

+1 on DFW. I'm not a big fan of the summer heat, and the area will be prone to water problems in the future, but my wife and I love the area. Still plenty of rural areas to choose from less than an hour from the metropolitan areas.

The biggest advantage is the size of the area. 2 Big cities, large suburbs with duplicate large cities activities (2 zoos, 2 sets of museums, 2 symphonies/opera companies, etc.)

For sports there are major league football, basketball, baseball (well, it's debatable with the Rangers ) and hockey. Big speedway with 2 Nascar races, 1 Indy car race, and lesser series. Nice new horseracing facility. Three minor league baseball teams, three Division 1 colleges, two major golf tourneys. Incredible high school sports. Fishing, hunting, boating all nearby.

Food: BBQ, Tex-Mex, Southern Home Cooking, Southwest and just about every international style you can imagine.

Downsides: The area sprawls with some lengthy commutes. Commuter rail still in infancy. Bus service is average. Succeptible to droughts, tornados and ice storms and serious thunderstorms. Roads becoming increasingly congested due to rapid population growth. Increasing number of former felons being signed by the Dallas Cowboys

Other upsides: diverse economy no longer concentrated in oil industry. Much growth in technology, health-care, transportation. However, Banking and finance being hit hard due to failures of subprime mortgage lending companies. Biggest airport (in size) on the planet. Largest amount of shopping/retail space per capita in the US. Finally, home to TWO Bass Pro Outdoor Worlds and 1 new Cabela's.

[quote=BrianTexas

For sports there are major league football, basketball, baseball (well, it's debatable with the Rangers ) and hockey. Big speedway with 2 Nascar races , 1 Indy car race, and lesser series.
[/quote]

Hockey is great.

Lesser series - NASCAR: Turn left, turn left, turn left....

Either way, DFW does have alot going for it. FW more so IMHO. However, I'm moving back to Upstate NY so what do I know?

Tips on how to evaluate suggested places?

I have been looking at various websites, read stories / articles on various places, but I don't see how I can get a real sense of each place without visiting there.

Are there some tools you would recommend?

Thanks.

I would do some googling and find out things like sales tax, personal income tax, vehicle registration fees, auto insurance rates, etc. One of the reasons we are about to become residents of South Dakota is that all of those things are very low there...

Wyoming may be a very good choice right now, considering the economic environment. It has what is probably the best coal and largest natural gas fields in the U.S., is doing pretty well relative to other states, and still is not a very expensive place to live, if you are not in the area around Jackson.

Jackson is now a playground for the rich, and housing costs are high. I think some of this has spilled over into the Cody area, but that's based on things I've heard, not on what I've spent. (I've been to Wyoming at least 1/2 dozen times in the past 4 years, mostly to Jackson.) If you really like being outside and have soem skills, there may be decent temporary opportunities in Jackson. The tourists coming in for the summer need people to be guides, etc. Many of those who work in the Jackson area now live in Idaho, but that's a good drive across a pass each day.

Last year we spent almost six months in the Pinedale area, 'bout 60 miles SE of Jackson. When we got there housing prices were thru the roof, thanks to all of the gas fields. But most of the fields are on BLM land, and BLM is not re-newing leases when they expire, so gas workers are leaving in droves, and housing prices are dropping like a rock. Nice friendly state. Prices of everything else seemed normal to us (we had been in WA and CA prior), but another couple from FL thought that prices were outrageous...

OBG, that's surprising about the gas fields. DW drove through there last year, and she was stunned by all the work going on in and around the gas field.

Dweste, If you want to try Wyoming and look for a job before you get there, you could try:

http://www.pinedaleonline.com/jobboard/

http://www.jacksonholenews.com/classified_page.php?art_id=475

https://www.wyomingatwork.com/saintro.asp?session=jobsearch

I'm sure there are other places to look too.

We were there 'til the end of Oct, and had seen a big slowdown in gas workers (many of them lived where we were "working")...

> Ideally, I would like to find two places to live and work: one from which I
> could flee winter, and a second to which I could flee in winter.

Give some consideration to Reno, NV. There's a college in town, right now the housing situation is reported as sales increasing, prices decreasing. Look at a house outside town for your country life-style, maybe a few acres. If you make friends with a real estate agent, you probably can find a nice place to rent till you want to buy.

Weather is not too bad in winter (I lived in North Dakota four years, and I'll tell you winters suck - North Dakota _and_ Minnesota). There is an active arts community that is friendly. Fishing and hunting will fit you right in to the community. It's not too far from Central California. Louise and I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, and it's a 5-hour drive for us on the other side of Tahoe (your flee-to site?).

The Reno Gazette-Journal has a good online presence:
http://www.rgj.com/
Check their sections on weather, neighborhoods, real estate, and whatever else interests you.

"No matter where you go, there you are" as they say. So you can't ever really move away. Good luck where ever you land - you'll make it work for yourself. Or not. Who can predict?

It's not Disney Land but we do have a theme park.

Jeanette Isabelle

You guys are great, thanks!

Maybe you could get some ideas from this quiz.
http://www.findyourspot.com/

Interesting. Based on my first time through the quiz:

Portland OR
Tulsa OK
Clarksville TN
Salem OR
St. George UT
Shreveport-Bossier City LA
Little Rock AR
Jackson MS
Tacoma WA
El Paso TX
Chattanooga TN
Bryan-College Station TX
Corvallis OR
Kent WA
Hattiesburg MS
Alexandria LA
Greenville SC
Eugene OR
Olympia WA
Fort Wrth TX
Athens GA
Bellingham WA
Johnson City – Kingsport TN
Oklahoma City OK

Not one California suggestion!

"...Not one California suggestion!..."

No big surprise there, why in the world would anyone want to move TO CA???

I wasn't suggesting that anyone base a future move on this quiz , only suggested that it might help. I'm sure if you took 100 people from a survival forum and 100 people on a big city forum you would get different answers. I like snow so most of mine were up north, probably would have been different if I had said I hated snow. At any rate it does come up with some questions that anyone should ask themselves if they plan to move to another location and start over.

No worries , Angel, I don't think any one site or source is gospel on the "better places" issue. Thanks for pointing toward the site.

If you've got any questions on this end of the state I can help with let me know. Off the top of my head we've got three good size state parks, three national parks/rec areas, & 5+ lakes within ~100 mile radius. Larger cities & metropolitan areas are Chatanooga, Knoxville, & the Tri-Cities (Bristol, Kingsport, & Johnson City).

Stockton now adds to its various titles that of most expensive gas in the country. Not making it any easier.

Feedback from local job applications so far: I am over-qualified for what I want even if there were job openings.

Fighting denial about how bad it is.

Trying to rally to sell off my stuff to get ready to move. Tough market for a seller.

You might try downgrading your resume to see if the overqualified reasons will change anything.

I know a fellow with a Master's in ME had to obscure that and present himself as only having a Bachelor's in order to get a job.

Sometimes you have to change flies to get a strike.

Yeah, that is the strategy I am pursuing. Seems the odds are better.

By the way, I am bugged in today because my access out to the west is crawling with fire, police, etc. as Stockton's finest knockdown a brush fire along Interstate 5 that spread into a condo complex and single family areas. From TV coverage it looks like some 4-6 8-unit condos and some 7-8 homes have been lost. This is all about 1/4 mile to my west and south.

My access to the east is doable but would require going through the evacuation center area set up in a large local church. I figure traffic is a mess there, too, and they don't need any more folks going to and fro. This is all about 1/4 mile or less to my east and south.

[Because I live along a slough there is no ingress or egress to the north.]

I took my Master's off my resume in order to better the odds a bit. Since I am retired military I can "afford" to do something a little less "aggressive" income-wise. I do not in any way want this to be construed as "rubbing your face in it" because of my retirement income. The point is altering the resume to fit the situation.

I had a hard time getting over the feeling that not telling them I had an advanced degree was not a lie. It is just giving the necessary information to get the job. Over-qualified? Probably. Employed? Yup. Let the other experience you have slowly, if ever, creep out over time. You can present it as dabblings or experimenting with new and different things. It will show that you have the desire and ability to learn new things.

Just a few random thoughts and babblings.

2 cents.

I noticed an article on CNN a few weeks ago that ranked OKC as the #1 US city best suited to weather the resession. I noticed today that CNN is running a story today that says OKC was ranked last among 50 U.S. cities in a recent study on areas best able to cope with high oil prices.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/12/news/economy/cities_oil/index.htm?cnn=yes

Why can't they just admit that don't know anything? lol

I can tell you that the housing bubble did not happen here. Wages are low compared to the coasts, but the cost of living is just about the cheapest around. Gas has yet to hit $4.00 a gallon.