Here's the dilemma.

A while ago I was approached by a friend and asked if I could volunteer some time to work with the Scouts to do some bush craft/survival training. Of course I agreed, It would be great to help out the next generation of kids and prove to them that you can have fun without a game controller glued to a hand.

I was approached and asked today to teach ALL the lessons for a new group of kids, as well as lead the outdoor training. The two other guys(scout leaders) are great guys, and great instructors, but one is a city cop and the other is a teacher and they have admitted that they have little outdoor skills above the basic stuff. They want me to cover some more advanced techniques to these kids, but still within the realm of what Scouts do.

I have all day on a Saturday to teach classroom stuff, with small exercises thrown in and then two days to do a outdoor exercise with the 12 kids and the other two scout leaders. They are all kind of looking to me to put this thing together. The kids are apparently really happy and excited to learn more than the normal how to roast marshmallows stuff.

Sooooooooooooo. That being said, Any ideas on some stuff I could teach to these guys?

I was thinking of teaching some basic game tracking skills, some basic hunting skills like how to dress game, types of traps and snares, and maybe some rappelling followed by some night navigation and a few other thing I think they may find of interest. Some Archery training If I can get the supplies maybe.

My big concern is that I am used to training Soldier's and not 10 year olds. Some of these lad's are very un-used to being outside. They are very excited though, and I don't want to let them down. Any tips?

I know there are guys here who work with kids a lot

Thanks

Where can I sign up for lessons?

Really, the Scouting book has alot of good standard stuff to get into, and the Scoutmaster's Handbook has some great ideas. Newer Scouts have alot of level requirements to fulfill, you can kill off a few of those as part of your curriculum. Depending on time of year, improvising shelters is a great group activity, and kids can put something up and sleep in it. Plant and animal identification too - go on a walk and find 10 of each, what few poisonous plants to look out for etc. Something as simple as knife safety and sharpening their knife can get them onto their Tote n Chip and contribute a valuable skill. Maybe a primer on building a first aid kit and cleaning and dressing simple wounds.

Keep the talking to a minimum, hands on as much as possible. If the kids have been on campouts, hopefully the adult leaders have related what they carried to what they need to survive. If not, a few minutesw on the rule so 3s etc and the importance of going out prepared.

Consider having a few stations, and rotate the kids among them after an hour. Depending on how many kids you have, a larger class can be hard to handle and sorta boring for the kids. No matter how involved what you have to say may be, few if any kids will want to sit there all afternoon hearing about it (unless it eventually involves exciting stories ending in missing limbs and digits). Smaller groups working 2-3 together can get alot more done. Fire-making seems to be popular among kids and adults. Combine it with an hour on backcountry cooking, and have one group prepare lunch for the troops, another make dinner.

I recommend you involve your other adult leaders directly in whatever you do, if they lack experience get together with them beforehand to practice the skills you intend to cover, then have them cover a station instructing the kids. Don't make them students for the day, let them lead some of the skills, even if they aren't expert. My first time out with Scouts I was impressed that every adult leader knew so many knots (more than me), little did I know that a few of them had learned them just the week before the outing.

Last I would tailor this to the audience - if they're urban / suburban kids then cleaning game is overkill as a primary skill, if they come from hunting families they may already be familiar.

Taurus,

A similar thing happened to another member several years ago and the resulting thread had lots of good ideas. I did a quick search but didn't see it. Your Search-Fu may be stronger.

-Blast

Found a few relevant topics (I'm having a high-Fu day):

SwampDonkey's course for kids:
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=99989&fpart=1

Kids building shelters (with pics):
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=101104&an=

Young adventurer's club - course ideas:
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=123613&fpart=1

Preps for Scout hikes:
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=67492&fpart=1

Taurus,

While all that is indeed useful information, you have to remember the audience that you're instructing. My concern is that much of this information will be well beyond their attention span, if not over the heads completely. I actually have some experience with scouts, as I serve as a unit commissioner for my district.

Lono offered some very good suggestions, namely getting your hands on the BSA Handbook as well as the Scoutmasters Handbook. I would add that there is a "Wilderness Survival" merit badge (and a corresponding booklet to accompany it) that would be very helpful for you to review.

I have taught wilderness survival to boy scouts (as well as scoutmasters) before as part of an outdoor weekend, and even the scoutmasters become overloaded pretty fast. Spending an entire day on the subject with two additional days to practice is a tall order, as you'll need to change things up quite frequently. At best figure no more than twenty minutes on any given subject before you'll lose them.

As a general suggestion, I would limit your training to simply touching upon the major requirements of the WS merit badge, as well as the seven priorities (as BSA sees them -- see #2 below) and be sure to break things up with plenty of hands-on instruction, activities, and breaks:

1). Basic first aid (frostbite, hypothermia, heat exhaustion/stroke, dehydration, rule of 3's, insect bites, etc.)

2). The 7 priorities (STOP, first aid, shelter, fire, signaling, hydration, food)

3). Attitude (don't panic, maintain positive attitude and good morale)

4). Scenarios (describe what steps to take to address basic survival given various likely scenarios)

5). Survival kit (outline the basic items to include in their survival kit and how to use and maintain each)

6). Fire (show/discuss different means of fire starting)

7). Signaling (show/discuss different means of attracting attention)

8). Shelter (show/discuss different types of natural shelters that can be built in the wilderness)

9). Protection (outline steps to protect oneself from insects, snakes, wild animals, etc.)

10). Hydration (show/discuss methods of purifying water in the wilderness)

11). Clothing (outline various clothing choices as they relate to scouting activities in the extreme heat or cold, layering, materials, etc.)

12). Food (show/discuss wilderness options (although keep in mind the BSA strongly discourages scouts from ever eating anything that they find in the wilderness)

The idea here should be to spark the boys interest in the wilderness survival merit badge activity, not to hope to have them complete all the requirements in a single day (or even a weekend).

Be sure to keep things fun, simple, and try to schedule hands-on activities that require the boys to work together as a team.

Feel free to PM me if there is anything I can do to help you out.

Jim

Some great ideas folks. Thank you

I simply don't have the time to become more involved. I would like to be a Scout leader someday, but with my schedule it may not be any time soon. I am totally in the dark when it comes to badges and qualification requirements and the like. I think the guys wanted me to do stuff not related to badges and stuff, simply because the other scout leaders have little experience in some areas that I do. None of them are hunters for example, and I think they want me to go a little bit "outside the box" on this one, just to teach some stuff that the kids wouldn’t normally see.

Problem is, I don't know what's "inside the box" with this one.

I like your list Jim, Its a place to start. I need to sit down with the other chaps and get a bit more clarification on exactly what they want me to cover.

I will have to get my hands on a handbook as well.

Coming from a scout leader (hey im assistan senior patrol leader)

They will talk, they will fidget, they will goof off!!

It is very hard to do something like

One preson will light this fire, then the next preson, then the next...if they are not ALL entertained, even just 1 person not entertained, from my experience will distract everyone.... Ihave been in scouts for 4 years and have been a leader in my troop ever since.

Man, you are in big trouble! This is exactly how it starts off. After you do this, you'll stay up late criticizing yourself and planning how to do it differently the next time. You won't even hesitate the next time you get asked... welcome to the world brotherhood of scouting...

Is this a bunch of kids in Scouts Canada? If so, you have some different rules and guidelines than BSA - neither good nor bad, but stick to the SC guidelines instead of the BSA ones.

Lots of hands-on and as much personal time with the individual scouts as you can manage. You already have a super-list (as in good-but-too-many-things) to work off of in the time available. I have a FEW suggestions for you:

1. Have fun and make it fun for the scouts.

2. Right up front, cut your class size in half - make them form buddy teams and stick to that theme the entire weekend. No Aaron Ralstons. If you want, you can then form "crews" of 2 buddy teams - which works out to about 1/2 a patrol. It would be nice to use their organic patrols, but at that age... it will not work.

3. LOTS of coached hands-on. I like our (BSA) current paradigm: E.D.G.E. - Explain, Demonstrate, Guide, Enable... pretty self-explanatory, but many scouters get stuck on E.D. and neglect G.E.

4. Scouts have GREAT imaginations (they are kids) - make up an adventurous scenario for the weekend (a story - fiction) about where they are, what the circumstances are, etc. Tell it right off the bat, reinforce all the time; stay in character and keep them in character - of course, be safe and reasonable - they will really get into it and play their roles. You do not have to get overly detailed - it's not a movie script. Best way for kids to learn... we often forget that as adults. Make it play, not work.

5. It's a lot more meaningful to build an expedient shelter if one is actually going to use it... ditto boiling up a mug (and starting that fire), and so forth. Coaching them all through actually doing things will soak up enormous amounts of time - be prepared to sacrifice "events" if that's what it takes to actually teah them 2 - 4 skills rather than rushing them through a dozen things they don't have time to digest, let alone DO. Plan plenty and execute according the the situation as it develops - you will have a great feel for this after one or two iterations (see opening comments...)

6. Really pound (all the time) on having the essentials on/with them at all times - and be a little more open minded than, say, BSA official "lists" - time, terrain, weather, mission, resources available, etc. Then help them out early on - have them build personal fire starting kits (ye olde Altoid tins work great) they get to keep or 55 gallon 3-6 mil garbage bags (e.g. rain gear, shelter, wind shell, etc.) they get to keep, make a roll of 6'-8' of orange flagging to keep; cordage (they never have enough), etc - idea is they take some THINGS away besides memories. You can do a LOT with little expense for a large number of scouts if you think it through first, plan ahead, and prepare (Hey! First principle of LNT!).

That's plenty to consider, so I'll stop with one last thing: HAVE FUN!

Regards,

Tom - still a BSA Scouter (roped in like you) and dad of 3 Eagle Scouts.

I would have to say that teaching rapelling as a stand alone skill, that is, out side the larger context of rock climbing, mountaineering or caving, to any group or individual is not a good idea.

Giving them an introduction to safe climbing practices, and maybe just a little top rope work might be something that would get their attention, but I am not sure how enthusiastic BSA is about even elementary technical climbing.

My experience with Scout troops has been that they are highly variable, ranging from excellent to a good imitation of barbarian hordes swooping down to sack Rome.

Taurus,

Thanks for offering to instruct Scouts on important skills. There is a key Scout document called "The Guide to Safe Scouting" available online at http://www.scouting.org/HealthandSafety/Resources/Guidetosafescouting.aspx

It says that "Hunting is not an authorized Cub Scout or Boy Scout activity, although hunting safety is part of the program curriculum." but does not say that butchering is not allowed. Still, I would recommend that you let Scout leaders and parents know that you'll be covering this in case they feel it is not appropriate for their sons.

It gives specific rules & recommendations for climbing & rapelling.

Paragon & others gives some good suggestions indeed. I myself would stick to the survival/navigation topics and stay away from the hunting/dressing/trapping topics. Young boys LOVE to learn how to build natural shelters, build fires, and use survival tools (whistles, signal mirrors, knives). Keep it simple. Their coordination is such that use of saws and hatchets can be dangerous to them (hands & fingers in the wrong place & time), so take use of these tools very seriously.

Keep in mind that some of these guys could be just 11 years old. Short attention spans. More likely than not, some may have behavior issues that need to be considered. Some love to get dirty and others hate it. Be flexible.

A wise scoutmaster friend told me once that boys join boy scouts for three reasons; 1. to Build Fires, 2. to Build Fires and 3. to Build Fires. I'd opt for more fire building and debris shelter building sorts of things. These are hands on which will keep the kids busy and keep them from getting bored. Have them build a fire, then cook lunch; build a shelter, then sleep in it overnight, that sort of thing. Also, maybe assembling personal survival kits and then using the kits in your demonstartions.

I met up with the kids last evening just to say hello during one of their club meetings and they were a very interesting crew to say the least !

They saw me in BDU which is our daily dress uniform and now they are really excited to have an "army guy" come along with them. I will stick to everyone's advice given here and keep the lessons more geared toward the age group. We will be covering PSKs, Field first aid(basic) improvised shelters, and some basic signalling techniques(signal mirrors and ground signals) And then fire starting techniques and principals. I think I will try to cover other not often seen fire types like the Dakota fire pit and maybe that will hold their attention a bit. We will stay in improvised shelters overnight and I want to show them a bit of good old fashioned campfire cooking.

After that, I have acquired a whole bunch of cam paint and stuff to play with some personal camouflage training. then I may conduct a small stalking exercise just for fun. I have permission to sign out a number of NVGs to let them play around with for this and IF possible, I may be able to organize a ride for them in a LAV III armoured vehicle here on base. If my friend bigmothertrucker is back from Texas in time I may request his help to run the Rappel tower as we are both unit rappel masters. After talking to the Scout leaders last night, they assured me that the kids would be VERY disappointed if I didn't teach some army related stuff to these kids(that appears to be what they want the most)


I wonder WTF I have gotten myself into now

There are a few points that I would like to make.

As stated before, The Guide to Safe Scouting is a must. This can be found at the national BSA web site: www.scouting.org

Please keep in mind that the scouting program is designed with what is considered "age appropriate" activities. If you are dealing with Cub Scouts, the "little guys", this might be an issue. One of the concerns that BSA has is that if young boys are doing these activities at a young age, they don't have as much to look forward to when they get older and lose interest.

I'm not advocating to hold them back, just to be aware of this. It is always a fine line on this subject. When I was an Assistant Scoutmaster we ran into just this situation. I ended up forming a High Adventure patrol in our troop for the older boys.

Thanks for taking the time to get involved with the youth of America. I can speak from experience when I say that it will be one of the most rewarding experiences of your life. That's why I'm still doing it even though my boys are in their 20's.

ScouterMan raises a good point - no matter how good the magic, only some of the kids will take interest. After your intial demos most of the Equipped Appeal (TM) will be to the older Scouts, and an organized High Adventure curriculum is tailored to older Scouts going on tougher hikes with more in depth information on preparedness tactics. Definitely I've seen interest in more advanced wilderness first aid topics appeal to fewer and fewer Scouts, but those often take it to heart and go right on through EMT training and into medicine and emergency response as a profession.

Don't worry if all the younger ones don't take to your stuff right off, there's time in a few years to catch the bug, if they're interested.

Is your profile location correct? It says "Canada".

Guys, if this is a Canadian scout unit, BSA is NOT the guide for Scouts Canada, as I pointed out previously. Stop telling him what he can and cannot do with BSA - it's Scouts Canada, not "America"

See http://www.scouts.ca/default.asp?cmPageID=81

Lots of great info available there and from the magazine archives.

Regards,

Tom

Yep. I was waiting for someone to notice that. I did not want to be rude as I was still getting some top shelf info. A lot of the fundamentals apply between the U.S and Canadian Scout organizations I am sure, but I think our rules are less strict up here.

Correct me if I am wrong on this.

Either way, All the ideas were good learning for me. I don't deal with kids often.

Ha ... pretty funny!

Taurus,

I was a Troup Scouter for about 4 years.
When I first got started, I was introduced to a very small troup; so small it couldn't have more than 2 patrols.
The troup didn't have any set curriculum, and the parents in the scout comittee didn't have any experience with boys of the scout age.
Pretty much my goal was to prepare them for camping outdoors without the use of cabins. CubScouts mostly cabin camp.
I don't think there was a boy there that had even slept a night out in a tent.
First thing i did was bring in some of my own gear, and introduce them to backpacking style of camping. By introducing my gear, i talked about types of gear and their uses.
Safety being important, i introduced them to the basic 'survival kit'(Fieldbook Chapter1). During this time, they all constructed their own and talked about the various uses for the kit items.
When i introduced them to actual camping, i took them out to a ranch, gave a quick talk about shelters. The week before i went to a lumber yard and picked up a bunch of old lumber tarps. The kids then broke into pairs, and set up shelters. After they were finished, we talked about their successes and improvements on their shelters.
Then we talked about Fire, and its' uses, and different ways to start fires. The kids then broke into pairs again, and practiced firelighting with different methods.
We spent the weekend doing these simple things(and camping), and other outdoor skills, which in the end led to their Camping and Woodcraft badges.

Myself and a leader from another troup tried rock climbing/rapelling, but in the end, the comittee decided that too many 'bad things' could happen for kids this age; especially in the beginning of scouting. Mabye after a year, i'd run something in a controlled environment, like a rock climbing gym.

As for military content? Well i for one dont't have any military training or experience, however I can think of a few ways to make compass work, and navigation somewhat 'tactical' and fun for boys.

I pretty much just studied the "Field Guide" and elaborated on that. I think the fieldguide is a bit outdated when it comes to lightweight gear, but that was easily remedied.

Easy. Pick a badge or two and journey onward!
Oh, and one more thing, make sure the parents take part.

onward and upward!

al

Taurus..i would find a old scout handbook--1950's or older
and pick some skill training out of that..

I have a 50s vintage Scout Handbook, its a valuable resource and an interesting read, but I wouldn't try to train up young Scouts according to it. Alot of knowledge has flown under the bridge in 50 years. I was reading the Wilderness Survival merit badge book last night (sad, what I do in my free time) and was pretty impressed with how current and accurate was their advice on things like surviving heat stroke (something like "don't let your brain get to 103 degrees, you will die"). There can be valuable nuggets of info, but for actually passing on knowledge to a younger generation check out the most recent resources.

All of which isn't to dismiss the survival knowledge of anyone who made their bones in the 50s or 60s, I'm not, alot of what I know came from guys who did just that (my brother the Eagle Scout, my Dad the Eagle and Scoutmaster etc). You can probably survive according to texts from any era, but in terms of training a new generation, not alot has been lost from the 50s, but alot of newer info has been gained since then that we have to cover. Maybe relying on a 50s era first aid manual would be a better example of what I'm talking about.

So now here is the real question....When can you come down to MY troop?

no really, if you are ever down in San Diego, you would be welcomed on our campouts!

Me? Be careful what you wish for. I'm boring on campouts and hikes, and frankly still don't know enough knots to impress anyone. And my best contribution to Scout meetings will never be used, hopefully - ex. we repeated three times in three meetings a 5 minute activity on rolling a suspected spinal injury to further assess, then beaming them onto an insulation pad. Do it once and their memory for it gets sketchy, but by the third time they had the rolls and transfers down pat, which is what I want if *I* should tumble down a rockface on a Troop outing.

lol...it was an open invitation to all scouters on ETS...maybe i should tech the wee ones what to do if I get injured...

Lots of great ideas and input here. I'm the Scoutmaster for our local troop, and if I have learned anything in my tenure, it's that these boys don't start learning until they are smiling. They don't have to be yucking it up constantly, but, they have to have some fun, with hands on activity, along the way. If they are smilin' and laughin' from time to time, you're doing fine. I often wonder if they are picking up anything, and then one of them really surprises me and does the right thing without any coaching!

Have fun! Oh yeah, and the person who said the boys like fires, well, I'd have to say that's a priority for them for sure:-)

shelters from forest materials are fun, but realistically carrying a small tarp and some paracord with the knowledge of proper knots to rig it up tight is lots of fun and more practical, use knife skills to cut and notch some tent stakes from sticks

I'd suggest some basic knots and a tarp setup exercise.

build tinder bundles.

You could also make char cloth over a fire. After its done, pass out a square to each kid and have a contest to to strike sparks into the char cloth from the back of an axe or some other carbon steel with a rock. throw into tinder bundle and get flame!

set flame under a fire lay w/ pot filled with water handing on a tripod, first team to get a rolling boil wins. have an adult lead each team and get kids to assist in building tripod, hanging apparatus (use knife to whittle a hanging hook), firelay etc.

make some slings (paracord, leather patch http://slinging.org/index.php?page=making-a-simple-sling-an-illustrated-guide) and teach kids (safely) how to sling rocks (maybe into a lake or something) this is lots of fun! primitive hunting tool.

make a simple orienteering course to teach compass / map skills

hide a "geocache" to teach GPS skills

definitely make simple traps like the figure four deadfall to practice precision whittling skills

show them how to properly sharpen knives

bring some slingshots - more projectile fun