+1 on the 12 gauge and the .38 revolver, for all the reasons stated above and one other consideration in favor of the revolver: reliability and low maintenance. A semi-auto handgun relies on various springs etc. to feed. Dirt, time, just laying around unused might cause a failure to feed just when you need it most. You don't have that problem with a revolver, which will sit happily in a drawer and fire when you need it most: everything is strictly mechanical.

I guess it would depend on the ammo you are able to get and put away for future use. You said ammo was severally limited; a gun is nothing more then an expensive club without ammo. For survival use I would want a good supply of ammo put away. If you are restricted in the amount you can buy, I would but up to that limit every time you were allowed to buy it. When you go out to target shoot, don’t shoot it all up, save 10 rounds from every box of 50 and put them away for future use.


Is there a limit to how much you can have on hand? And if so, are you comfortable with storing more then that limit for survival needs?

As far as choices of calibers, 12 gauge and a 22 lr rifle are a good choice. These 2 will pretty much handle all your needs. Handguns are nice if you are allowed to also have one of them, but the 12 gauge can fill in, in the middle of the night just as well as a handgun. It’s much more powerful, and more intimidating then even the biggest handgun. Just looking at the business end of a 12 gauge can many times defuse a bad situation. And everyone on the planet knows the sound of a shotgun action being racked. It gets attention like no other sound.

I know many will disagree with me, but a 10-shot 22 pistol is (Ruger, 6 inch or longer barrel) enough to stop a person if you shoot well, nobody has a bulletproof face. If you shoot them 10 times they are going to loose interest in you.

Also it is nice to have a rifle and handgun that use the same ammo. It makes buying, storing and carrying logistics a lot easier. Also a 22 is not intimidating to woman, they can handle a 22 without being afraid of it. A gun your wife is afraid to pickup is next to useless.

My x-wife (we were married at the time) loved shooting the 22 lr’s and the 32 Mags pistols & revolvers. She hated the 38-357 Mag, 45 ACP, 9mm and she definitely did not like any of the rifle calibers I shot in the contender (a single shot handgun) I think the single shot contender makes an excellent survival gun, but many seem to think you need a fast shooting gun. I like a single shot and feel very confident with it. A 45-70 or 357 Max bullet coming out the barrel will do in anything I’m ever going to see.


If you feel you must have a larger caliber handgun, of the choices you listed. Go with the 38 spl. Don’t bother with the 32 or 380 ACP pistol rounds. They will not give you much more then a 22 rifle or 6-inch pistol for stopping power and ammo cost many times more.

If you are not restricted in your gun purchases, it opens up your choices and you can end up with 1 or 2 (or 4 or 5) of everything you want, this was my chosen method.

Revolvers are not more reliable then semi autos, this is a myth. Every army in the world used semi autos, they are in the killing business, if semi autos were not reliable, they would not use them. Also a revolver is an open gun it can become clogged with debris causing the cylinder to stop indexing to the next round.

The working / moving parts are open to outside influence. If not cocked, a person can grab a revolver that you are pointing at them tightly and keep you from firing as the cylinder is open and needs to turn to fire.


I use to work at a gun shop years ago, my friend still owns his own shop and we have tried this experiment many times (with unloaded guns) you point a revolver at a person, they grab it and hold on tight and twist the gun to point away from them. You can’t fire the gun while they are gripping the gun tightly.


PS It’s always a good idea (according to what I’ve read) keep a person 12-feet away from you when you are holding a gun on them, it’s close enough to not miss, and far enough to keep them from grabbing the gun and also they can’t cover that distance before you react to their movement(shoot them).

Ha. The best autoloader in the world can jam, the best magazine can gum up. Never had a revolver do that. Failed to fire with bad ammo, sure- pull the trigger again, can't say that about an auto, either.
For sheer, raw ability to take abuse, neglect, and bad ammo the only better choice is a break action.

And while people can talk about a cylinder grab, it is like talking about someone with serious martial arts skills forcing the slide of an autoloader out of battery or possibly even disassembling it- theoretical, but pretty much Hollywood. My revolvers have been carried on my side when I'm hip deep in mud- danger of a barrel rupture a few times, but nothing that would have prevented the cylinder from indexing.

That being said, I own several of both. Each has their niche.


For Fabio, my advice is going to be mixed:

The shotgun and the .22 are the easiest to get ammo for, and versatile. The shotgun is more skill intensive, and kicks harder. The .22 lacks power, but no recoil, and dirt cheap. That is why for the pistol, I'm going to recommend a good .22 auto or wheelgun. Pistols take training, and three or four hits to the upper chest with a .22 is a hell of a lot more effective that a double tap from anything that completely misses the target.

Or play this sound as a deterrant...

http://www.sounddogs.com/previews/2224/mp3/439569_SOUNDDOGS_SH.mp3

Fabio



I love questions like these.

I fire a lot of .38 special from my .357 and I can tell you it would be an excellent choice for a home defense revolver. Some points and info you may consider.
-.38 is a very versatile round and avail in a wide selection, from wad cutters to JHP

- easy to find and cheap(where I live at least)

-plenty of power to stop an attacker, I would suggest anything in 125 gr for this purpose.

-a revolver, like IR said, is a very rugged weapon and very easy to use and maintain. If you buy a revolver I would suggest a few speed loaders and at least 12 dummy rounds. Then practice your loading/ unloading drills until they become second nature. Practice to load quickly in the dark or blindfolded. This is VERY important when selecting a revolver. The last thing you want when something happens is to be fumbling with trying to put rounds in the chambers.

- The advantage of any auto is the speed of loading/reloading. the higher magazine capacity, and the rate of fire. I can’t foresee many home defense scenarios where you will need to be firing that many rounds, so a revolver is more than enough most times. With practice with and without speed loaders you can easily get a complete unload/reload done in under 5 seconds.

-the advantage of the revolver is that it is very unlikely to jam and if you get a dud round you just pull the trigger to rotate the cylinder to the next one. In a gunfight, the last thing on earth you want is a jam, especially if you have only one gun. The next most terrible thing is running out of ammo. This is the disadvantage of the revolver. In a HD scenario, you should hopefully not need to reload but if you do its best you are quick. Revolvers take practice to do this quickly.

-the .38 special rounds have very little recoil. It is very easy and forgiving to shoot and your wife will be able to fire it just as easy. The heavier grained rounds will recoil more. Any round with a +p or a +p+ stamped into the bottom is a hotter round. These can kick a good deal harder and some are close to the performance of the .357 rounds. Do not shoot these hot .38s out of an older revolver and note that hot rounds will burn out your barrel very fast.

ABOVE ALL ELSE, when it comes to home defense guns or ammo remember that SHOT PLACEMENT is the single most important thing IMHO. people can argue all day long about expansion, stopping power, terminal ballistics and the like but If you miss the tgt or if you don’t hit the tgt in the proper place it won’t be of much good to you so practice every chance you can get.

On that same note, a 12 ga is one of the best home defense guns available, bar none. The big advantage is the wide variety and selection of ammo available (from shot, slugs, or some of the more exotic ammo like terminator rounds or flechettes) and of course, its massive stopping power at short range. A pump is far superior in reliability to most semi-autos, and some such as the Mossberg 590 will hold up to 9 rounds.

- for home defense, stick to the 2 3/4 inch rounds and if you cannot reload your own then buy some reduced recoil rounds. This gives you more ability to bring the muzzle back on tgt for follow up shots. a reduced recoil #4 or 00 buck will be more than enough to stop any threat dead in its tracks if you are on tgt, Literally

-to prevent the threat of over penetration inside your home, stick to #4 buckshot as the smaller pellets easily smash through flesh but not walls. A shot of double buck (8 pellet) will be like getting hit with 8 .32 cal pistol rounds all at once. These tend to go through people and walls, and are better used outside or where there is no danger of hitting anything unintended beyond your tgt. a center of mass hit on any intruder will most likely end your problem very fast.

-avoid magnum rounds for home defense. They simply have more pellets than the non-magnums but recoil much harder. If you can’t keep on tgt there is little advantage to more pellets.

-unlike the movies, a good hold and aim is still required of a scattergun. at 10-15 feet, which is a reasonable long shot in the home, the pellet spread may still be the size of your fist or smaller. IMHO I would avoid the "from the hip technique" and stick to a gun with a good solid shoulder stock. Shot placement is paramount, even using a shotgun. The advantage of a hard stock, besides the better aiming ability is that if someone gets the jump on you a good butt stroke to the throat will be a good way to keep the close quarter fight in your favor.

Man. I can go on all day but I will sum it up there. No matter what you choose, practice makes perfect. I vouch for the .38 and the 12 ga out of what you listed, but any firearm in the hands of a skilled individual can be a very effective tool indeed. With good drills and shot placement, even the tiny .22 will stop a very determined attacker.

This is my home defense revolver. I use it in conjunction with my .45 APC Para ordinance semi-auto, and my Mossberg 590 in 12 gauge. My HD rounds of choice for the .38 special are 125 grain Hornady XTP JHP. The little bag holds 9 pellets of 00 buck as a comparison to the size of the .38 special 125 gr bullets.

[img][IMG]http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll200/taurus-135/revolver.jpg[/img][/img]

Forget the pump action shotgun. For your purposes a Double barreled shotgun would be better. Depending on the "Threat" either heavy ball in one chamber and birdshot in the other, or bird in both/heavy ball in both. As required.

One point of clarification please: Is that two guns per household or two per person?

You need to practice with whatever you buy. You say ammo is hard to come by. Have you considered buying an additional airgun for practice? I don't know if your laws consider these "firearms" and thus regulate them.

Buy yourself an inexpensive Crosman 1377 or 2240 air pistol to practice trigger control, marksmanship, etc. For practicing marksmanship, an "airgun" would be better than an "air soft gun". Airsoft are lower velocity and power and use different ammo and are not very accurate. I consider them more as toys - but fun toys! In the U.S you can buy a new 1377 (pump action) for $49 and a 2240 (CO2 cartridge) for only a few dollars more than the 1377. The 1377 will be far cheaper in the long run since you don't have to buy CO2 cartridges for it. You may want to do a trigger job on these guns, but that only takes you an hour or two and about $4 worth of parts from a hardware store. Very easy, and a vast improvement. You can buy airgun ammo at about $8 for 500 great quality pellets, $4 for 500 decent quality, or $2.50 for 500 lower end pellets. Unless you're into high accuracy and target shooting, you can use the cheaper pellets for practicing sight picture, trigger control, etc. A decent quality air rifle (as opposed to air pistol) would run you in the neighborhood of $100 - $150 if you shop around.

Using reloaded ammo for home defense is a risky thing to do.

I have a fellow shooting enthusiast that is also a judge for the local city. His advice to all his fellow shooting friends is to use factory ammo in any gun you have for home protection. The reason is that a defense lawyer could easily make it look like you were manufacturing your own powerful ammo because you wanted to kill someone. He could make it look like you were looking for an opportunity to shoot someone. Better to have factory ammo to eliminate this attack on you and your shooting of the slime ball that broke into your home and harm your family.


He also said to make sure that if you shoot anyone, make sure you kill him. This way there is only one story to be told, yours. The slime ball can confuse the facts with his lies if he’s not around.

I guess I better not grab the shells that are filled with M&Ms and finishing nails by accident then.

your statement is true to a degree I think. I imagine that any hand loaded EXOTIC ammo would be hard to argue if you waste a guy with it.(flechettes, dimes, rock salt, marbles)etc. Buckshot is buckshot though, and I hunt with it all the time. I could also argue that the pistol rounds are reduced recoil so my kid can learn to shoot. And my buckshot rounds were reduced recoil for hunting. If it all comes down to it, It depends on who has the better lawyer. I hope I never need to find out.

In the meantime, I will hide all my 3 1/2 mag rounds filled with sharpened American dimes marked "anti-morale cartridges" and hope no one finds them.