Just saw this on MSN. link

Wow! After using one for years, I'm amazed I'm still alive! Seems like everything nowadays is going to kill me. And to think some thought the American Indian tradition of transporting water in animal bladders was distasteful...

This is not a surprise -- it's been coming for some time. No doubt Nalgene can see the writing on the wall for the consumer versions of this product line. I'm sure they'll continue making polycarbonate vessels for science and industry.

I have been a fan of Nalgene products for a long time. Whatever they're made of , they are well-designed, indestructible, leakproof, and long-lasting.

IIRC, the BPA issue has undergone a shift. Rather than talking about the "straight toxicity" of the chemical, we're now talking about its rather insidious bio-effects in animals due to its mimicry of a hormone. That changes the amount that's considered safe by a huge margin.

I'll still use my existing polycarbonate bottles for emergencies, or for transporting water for washing etc.

Note that Nalgene makes HDPE (high density polyethylene) bottles as well. A bit smelly, but just as effective.

And a number of manufacturers have already switched from polycarbonate to polypropylene and copolyester, which make good-looking products.

Betcha Nalgene will do the same.

There's talk of banning them in Canada this week. Some large chains/stores are offering refunds already, plus stopping sales.

I have two new Nalgenes, never used one before, always used SIGG aluminum. I'm not worried, I'll use the Nalgenes if I feel like it, I'm already "old" and not in any of the danger categories and there's plenty of bad crap already in the tap water.

Mine Just went in the trash.

I'm still going to use mine. All the research I've seen says they're safe for adults, especially if properly cared for.

Whatever you decide to use in a few years they are going to decide its use is bad for you. And then they will decide that plastic wasn’t so bad in the first place.

Supposedly there are over 2000 new chemicals introduced to the environment every year, and next to none are tested for health effects. Some of the known-dangerous brand-name chemicals have been around for years and aren't banned...the #7 plastic bottle manufacturers plainly don't have enough $$...

Reminds me of all the research on soap. Years ago everyone used regular soap to wash their hands. Then, they came out with anti-bacterial soap and decided that was much better than regular soap and everyone had to use it. Now they say anti-bacterial soap is bad for us because it helps to breed bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics. They also are saying regular soap is just as good. So now a lot of places are going back to regular soap.

I dnt like the HDPE ones becasue when you have to pourhot water in them (wich you have to do to rid of the smell) they kinda melt and go all squishy on you. Also they smell wretched and I am finding myself having to clean them during campouts to rid of the smell

Yeah, same here, climberslacker. I'd used the HDPE ones for years and years; the only drawback was the smell. Especially when a canteen stayed in a hot pack/car for a couple of days -- phew!

Polycarbonate seemed like a "cleaner" alternative so I switched. Now it seems like the smell is blowing the other direction.

The good news? The 12-year-old Nalgene HDPEs in my basement are still solid and good to go. And yes, they're just as smelly as the new ones! Apparently they don't improve much with age.

Well, that trend was more due to marketing than science. Around the same time, everything was being churned out with antibacterial properties, from moisturizers to cutting boards to socks to laundry detergents. Personally, I stuck with plain liquid hand soap through that craze.

You stuck to regular soap; I’m going to stick to my Nalgene bottles during this craze. I have a lot of them, enough to last a lifetime.

They're doing it purely to please the public...which isn't a bad business decision. They have at no point admitted there is a BPA issue with their bottles.

I've seen studies that show you'd have to drink like 40L a day from these bottles to get enough chemical into your system to be even remotely harmful.

^ And now they're saying that huge amount of "pure" water we're supposed to drink every day is pure nonsense, no scientific basis for it, it's just lore that repeated enough became "fact".

Which doesn't mean you shouldn't drink a reasonable amount of water obviously, depending on what you're doing etc. But now they're saying, as far as your body is concerned, water in coffee for instance is just as good as the water in water...it's the coffee that's debateable. Which leads into now they're saying a certain amount of coffee is "good" for you...they really haven't got an effen clue obviously, it goes on and on, depends who's paying the researchers.

You think that this is a big deal, my only daughter is going to have her first baby next month. Go shopping and try to find a baby bottle (plastic, we can not find glass anywhere) that is not made in China. We have become afraid of just about anything made in China that will come anywhere near your (or your grandkids) mouth...

Yea, me too.

I'm not worried much about BPAs, for as often as I drink from them while hiking its still only while hiking that I consume water from a Nalgene. If TEOTWAWKI happens and I start drinking water fulltime from a Nalgene, BPA will be among the least of my concerns.

I'm a tad more concerned about present day water quality, things like the oil additive MTBE that has leached into the groundwater and are present in the everyday water supply of most of the US. I get that whether I drink from a Nalgene or not.

I agree, my nalgenes will still get used. Won't be drinking coffee out of it or anything. But, as with most health warnings, I usually ask myself if its worse than the pollution I breathe in everyday. If not then I'm not gonna get too worked up about it.

What are your (plural) thoughts on these?

(BTW) I was thinking about them before all this came out.

sigg bottles

I agree. Mine are still getting used (and I don't drink an ungodly amount from them). And besides, I've already put too much of an investment in the ones that I have (I've got four 1L bottles along with 4 little flasks that go in each pouch on the outside of my rucksack). Anybody can die at any time, not just from BPA. You could die in a car wreck or just get a brain anuyerism (sp-whatever you get the point) at home. I could have died from something hitting my head, had the earthquake here in Indiana the other day been any worse.

So needless to say the whole Nalgene/BPA/OMFG deal is inside my circle of concern a little bit, but not affecting my circle of influence.

Looked on Nalgene's website and they are offering bottles made out of eastman plastic or some such. BPA free and looks and feels like polycarbonate. Now you can have the best of both worlds

How 'bout a plain old USGI plastic canteen??? I wonder about that plastic now...

I"ll still be using mine every day. I've been picking up a few with every pay check, it's still the best bottle I've found. This is the new aluminum scare- the EU looked it and gave it a resounding "no big deal".

I think my opinion of the BPA issue with adults can be best summed up with a quote from my DGF- "[Raven] drinks about a gallon a day from Nalgenes- if they've effected his hormones or sex drive, he's hiding it really well." I don't like it for baby bottles, or pretty much anyone smaller than a large dog, but once your out of puberty, it isn't an issue. Cancer risk, maybe, but everything causes cancer. There are going to whine and legislate everything- next thing you know they'll be mother henning us about chromium contamination from stainless steel containers. They did the same thing about copper kettles back in the 50s, but without the appeals to Aunt Sam.

I've always been interested in these SIGG bottles, but thought they were pretty expensive. That's the only drawback I can see.

Their fuel bottles are tough as heck. I imagine these would be too.

They're also much lighter than plastic. And at the end of their life, they can be recycled easily.

I've seen cheaper knock-offs, but I wouldn't buy one. Heaven knows what they're using for the coating.

I just went and bought a few more, so hopefully, I'll have enough for a long, long time. I love the Nalgene polycarb's, and ain't too worried about what they did to release the "bad, bad" chemicals. Are all the outdoor stores going to pull all the lexan coffee cups they offer?

I would be interested in steel or alum if they were single walled, so that you could boil water in it. That would be nice.

i never got into the Nalgene craze. I picked up one of the sports bottles because it's more durable than the typical disposable water bottle, but for camping, hiking, etc i always use the old steel canteen my grandpa gave me, and i'll continue to do so.

Glass? That's right it is a bit on the fragile side. I guess we'll have wait for NASA to come up with some cool alternative.

I'll keep mine. Heck, I'm drinking out of one as I type. Carry it to work every day for water.

So far there seem to be little sound science behind this (as usual). There are possibilities and conjecture, and a healthy dose of media sensationalism. We have seen this over and over, from saccarin, to DDT, even eggs.

The fact is that plain old water has killed more people than any of these. Heck, millions of people have died because we banned DDT.

Guess I need to go buy a few more bottles. Maybe there will be some good deals on them. Another decent product doomed by ignorance. Sigh...

Greg

I wonder if anyone has done any testing on insulated plastic water jugs, any size from a qt. to the five gallon models???

I was at the MEC 2 days ago and they've already pulled their entire inventory. They only had hydration bladders (so I bought a new Source 3L bladder). I suspect they'll have Nalgene back on the menu once they get the BPA free versions in stock or something like the SIGG bottles.

It's not the first time MEC has done this...they tried it last year when the hype first started.

MEC's polycarbonate stock was pulled quite a while ago. Everything else has been stripped bare (media hype rush etc.). Five days ago there were a couple dozen Nalgene HDPE bottles, a few clear and the rest opaque reddish (read: butt-ugly). I put my snout in one and got that old familiar HDPE smell I remember so well. But check out their website: lots of cool new products coming.

Like I said before, I'll keep my polycarbonate stuff for occasional use. The risk is likely a lot less than talking on a cell phone while driving.

An interesting link to a CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corp.) web feature on BPA: http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourinterview/2008/04/bisphenol_a.html . Love 'em or hate 'em, the CBC jealously guards its independence from government and corporate interests, so they're not shilling for anybody. It's a bit of a hype-deflating piece.

Great article.

I especially like the part where he says there is no evidence of long term effects for people working with BPA where direct exposure an inhalation can occur.

It's also nice to know that this same stuff is used in can liners. Cans are heated in the canning process and then store food for long periods of time...many times acidic food. If these bottles should be pulled from shelves so should canned food LOL.

Re acidic food -- the other casualty is a nice Aussie Shiraz carried to a remote campsite in a Nalgene polycarb, and produced with a flourish alongside the evening's one-pot-glop entree. In mixed company, this has been famously effective. Need a new shameless ploy now. :-)

Nalgene has handled this beautifully. Rather than trying to defend their product, or dispute the science, they voluntarily remove their stock from the shelves. Now, instead of being seen as distributers an evil cancer causing agent, they act quickly and are seen as good corporate citizens looking out for our collective best interest.

Able to maintian their customer base thanks to their quick action, Nalgene rushes their new BPA-Free "Tritan Everyday" product line to shelves. Everyone throws away their polycarb bottles and heads out to pick up a replacement. Oh, and it's the familiar, friendly shape and is odor free. Everyone drops ten bucks a pop on new bottles from the people we trust.

Kudos to Nalgene for turning a potential PR and sales nightmare into profit.

I agree it's smooth...it's too bad they're promoting the myth and filling their pockets at the same time.

Those who refuse to learn for themselves must pay. I guess I'll go back to my pewter and tin bottles for water storage now.

Someday they're gonna tell us there's a glass shortage cuz we're running out of sand, or that aluminum foil is going up in price because the global demand for aluminum is exceeding the supply. The sad thing is you could say that today and a lot of people would believe it was true

What about common sense? From what I've seen there is no shortage. I'm sure there is alot still on the shelves because not many people are using it....

<sarcasm>
Yeah! Just keep buying it from the Canadians instead.
</sarcasm>

All fun aside I keep seeing adverts on american TV for 'clean coal'...seems like an oxymoron but living in Alberta I don't know squat about coal.

Canadian stores already pull these bottles from the shelves. Major retailers have also canceled the sale of these bottles.

I have begun to use Sigg stainless steel bottle now.

I live close to the Sun refinery in Toledo Ohio, I can see the burn stacks (for lack of a better term) from my house, and they do in fact burn off some type of gas all the time. I can’t for sure say what it is, but the rumor is there is a poisonous gas byproduct of the refining process that they burn off.

The burning runs almost 24-7, 365 days of the year. I live ½ mile away and at times you can easily read a book at night from the glow of the flames.

Re the clean and dirty coal, it's typically like this, or at least was when I was involved in such things: Canada mostly has dirty coal, which they sell to the U.S. to burn there. Canada buys the clean U.S. coal to burn in Canada. LOL. It's a good thing the air stops at the border...

(How the heck did we go from polycarbonate to coal? Oh well, here goes.)

I don't know about Central Canada, but my understanding is that all the coal in that broad region (on either side of the border) is high in sulfur, which is a big problem in terms of smog and acid rain. One deposit is always different from another, of course. And geology does not respect borders.

Coal in Western Canada (and I would assume in the States south of us) is very low in sulfur. And we have a huge amount of it, close to the surface. As with most coal, there's a little bit of mercury and arsenic to give it "flavour." There are many initiatives underway in this part of the world regarding coal gasification ("clean coal" in hype language). Billions of dollars are committed in Central Alberta alone; and much more is coming as we try to build networks to pump CO2 (and other crud) from coal and oilsands underground. This is an undertaking as large as the coal/oil industry itself; it'll be interesting to see how it turns out.

^ It is kinda complicated, and logic won't give the reasons. I think it's politics, and the associated regulations. And some contracts are entered into for a decade plus. Also, what was even stranger to me than the coal jurisdictional movement, is how it is shipped (often literally) between and around Canada and the U.S. and the routes. Again, politics and regulations, besides available infrastructure. It is similar to people here asking: how come Canada imports more oil than it consumes, and also exports more than it consumes? Wouldn't it be a lot simpler and easier and more secure (and cheaper!) to just keep it mostly "in house"? That is a lot simpler to answer and makes perfect sense, if you consider who owns the refineries, the pipelines, the oil, the transportation. There is nothing like selling stuff to yourself (indirectly), moving it around and charging a good markup to yourself for each stage. The government takes a chunk of each of that too, so they'll soon complain... LOL, I really do find it funny, wish I had a piece...

How keen are people in BC about coal mines? I bet not much, not nearly as keen as people in Alberta would probably be. I'm in Ontario, and I guess (been a while, so may have changed too) it was all-round cheaper to get clean coal from the U.S. via the Great Lakes than shipping it by rail from elsewhere in Canada. Plus didn't have to have as good scrubbers etc. to meet whatever regs there were. And ship "our" (Canada's) dirty coal to places that burn it anyway and are set up for it reg-wise (if any, grandfathered). And the contractor's brother-in-law owned a clean coal mine, and his uncle a few GL freighters, etc.


I have noticed the Nalgene-style bottles are very hard to find now around here. They sure cleared them out quickly. Wal-Mart had big bins of some Chinese #7 plastic containers on sale last week...advance notice??

Dihydrogen monoxide has killed more people than BPA.

It's funny because it's true.