Some good points by all involved in the "Great Gun Debate". The shotgun argument is a good one with todays ammo technology. The sabot round is impressive and is highly accurate to 200+ yards. The sabot is basically a smaller caliber projectile inside a sleave that is the same diameter as the bore. When the projectile leaves the barrel, the sleeve detaches immediately and the projectile maintains the spin provided by the sleeve. I've never been a big fan of the shotgun because of my interest in precision marksmanship, but it is the hands down champion at home defense. I have 3 custom built AR-15's (.223), two with open sights, one with a scope/bipod that are designed to shoot accurately out to 1,000 yards and I would not choose them for home defense because of all the walls they would go through before or after they took out the intruder. Nobody wants to shoot a member of their own family while trying to protect them. As for the .223 for deer and other medium game, they are capable of the job, but not a very good choice; not to mention they are illegal to hunt deer with in all but a handful of states because they lack the required energy at the target. They are also too damaging to small game to be a decent choice. I hate to dog the .223 because I have more invested in them than all my other guns combined, but facts are facts. My AR-15's only purposes in life are to win High Power Rifle matches, or rid the world of varmits... and they do that as well or better than any gun made. Guns are like tools; it would be nice to have one do it all, but that's not reality. I don't even own a shotgun, but I'd have to side with the shotgun guys when talking about them being an all-around weapon... I hope my other guns don't read this!
George

Im not certain how much sabots co$t but they are probably more expensive than standard slugs and less expensive then high powered rifle fodder. You could reload them to make it cheaper. <img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Looks like I owe benman an apology. Im not sure of the terrain in California but in central New York the shotgun reigns supreme. That has some help in that only shotguns are allowed for deer season. But when shooting long distances with sharp eyed game, thats where the rifle comes into its own. Of coarse, with good stalking skills one could even (shorten actually <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) the playing f eild and bring into shotgun range. I wish they still made 8, 6,2 and 0 gauges. Those look fun! <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Central New York? As in Brooklyn? <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Matt

Discarding sabot rounds for the moment, what I haven't seen here yet is a discussion of "less than lethal" or LTL rounds for shotguns, specifically for home defense situations. In our current legal climate, where you can get sued for killing someone who was just a microsecond away from pulling the trigger on you, LTL rounds gain some credibility as the first round in the shotgun barrel. I'm referring here to the "beanbag" or rubber ball rounds, which can be found on the Internet for about $4-6 U.S. each. Is that a lot of money? Sure. But hit an intruder with any of these at close range and he/she's not going to get up any time soon, which gives you time to chamber your very lethal 12-gauge buckshot round and politely tell them they have a choice - lay there until the police arrive or try their luck again.

No find New York (State) and put your finger on the center of it and Im somewhere in there. Dont use black magic and try crushing me though!

I dunno. I have heard its just better to blow them away the first time, otherwise they sue you. Sued if ya dont, sued if ya do. Plus they could grab their gun and get you if you arnt careful. If you want a cheaper LTL get some dust or #9 or higher shot. That ought to do the trick, and wont go through any walls.

If I crushed you where would I kayak?

Matt

Or just get a Tazer and mount it to the forearm...

Less than lethat? We're not that "enlightened" down here... if someone breaks into my house and I'm lucid enough to know what's happening, then they are going to have a very bad day.

A couple of years back, our Attorney General even wrote an open letter to SC Law Enforcement stating that they were NOT to charge anyone who had shot someone while defending their own home.

I love the South! <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I agree. If someone is in your house with a gun with bad intents (dont turn on your hunting buddy for coming in for some hot coffea after a freezeing hunting trip, I mean coffea aint that expensive!) certainly blow em away. Most criminals will flee when found out, the best thing to do there wold be to send a few reminders to fall all around them once they get out far enough.