Hi all. I have a question I hope you can all offer some advice on

Part of my on duty EDC is my Sure-fire E2e flashlight. It has served me well except once a few weeks ago when it failed at the most inopportune time(the bulb burned out) Fortunately I always have my pelican M1 as a backup. All my other lights for hunting, emergency use etc are LED with the exception of my sure-fire M3 combat light which is part of my home defence equation and is not required in LED as the xenon bulbs are way brighter. I bought the E2e when it first came out and there weren't many good LED options out there at the time for a reasonable price.

The curent army issue EDC flashlight is the mini-mag (which I hate in the worst way) so I just dropped money on something better.

I know the sure-fire is an excellent light and s**t happens so I am not upset that a bulb burned out(even though it was at a very bad time) however, I want to upgrade my on duty EDC flashlight to LED capability. For my use I need a higher lumen output than most people would need, longer battery life and the ability to add a red filter or even a red LED option for tactical use. Although I always have my pelican as a backup(also with a red lens) I don’t ever want to be caught with my pants down again. The pelican is very reliable, but doesn't put out very much light so it is not much use to me as a primary light at work. Especially for room clearances,vehicle searches etc

I was looking at buying the kl4 LED conversion head for my E2e, http://www.opticsplanet.net but for 130 bucks I can probably get a whole new flashlight that meets my requirements for a lot less. I need at least 65 lumen output but 100 would be better. It needs to be tough enough for military use and must fit in a nite-ize holder. I also need the removable red filter capability. The E2e with the KL4 meets these requirements, but…. My questions are:

Anyone have a KL-4? Is it worth the money?

I don’t mind spending money on good gear, especially a good light but I despise wasting money so I figured there would be no harm in hearing what others have to say first. If it is worth the money great, but there are some good LED lights out there now and the prices are lower than they were when I first bought the E2e. Since I already paid a few bucks for it I figured an upgrade would be the best way to go.

Thanks folks

Surefire is now marketing a few 100 lumen tacticals

Surfire L4 Lumamax

There's also their L2, L5, Ultra, and G3 LED variants (the G3 is only 80 lumens but the batts will last a bit longer).

Innova also has a decent tactical at 100 lumens.

I've seen one or two out there pushing the output up to 120 lumens. I've not had a problem myself overdriving LEDs a bit, but at 4 watts output, I would start to worry more about the heat dissipation.

Those Surefire LED lights are not going to fail you.

Dorcy 120 lumen 6 watter

Here's one of the 120s. For $40 that ain't bad, but it ain't no Surefire. Those three AAs will suck down quick at 6 watts.

I have the 3 Watt Dorcy and I'm pretty happy with it. You can't get more LED Lumens for the money with the Dorcy and Garrity lights...they're too cheap not to have some kicking around the house. Might not be reliable enough for tactical use though.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/index.php?

i would suggest looking around that forum plenty of info there.

P60 led dropins maybe worth looking at i have them in all my surefire 6p's. i like the p60 modules as they allow you to upgrade your lights cheaply. when out and about i carry a spare P60 in an old 35 mm film canister. dropins have a wide price range and quality range $10 to $100+.

http://www.opticshq.com/Merchant2/mercha...y_Code=Surefire

Cree Q5 LED conversion head for SureFire E2 series, HA3 natural finish. Output: 220 lumens Runtime: average 2+ hours Voltage: 3-8.4V (optimal, slight difference will have no detrimental effect) Price:$79.99

http://www.opticshq.com/Merchant2/mercha...y_Code=Surefire

Cree Q5 LED conversion head w/impact bezel for E2 series, Black finish with aggressive crenelations Output: 220 lumens Runtime: average 2+ hours Voltage: 3-8.4V (optimal, slight difference will have no detrimental effect) $79.99

turned up those in a quick forum search but for that price you can buy a good whole light.

spos i better stick in a disclaimer i have nothing to do with any of the companies above yadda yadda yadda

The KL4 is 5 watt for 65 lumens. I would like more but 65 lumens is still very bright and I guess I will get more battery life.(the high output 20 min battery life is not good for me) I dont need the light for combat ops like police would need but rather for prolonged searches in dark cellars, lofts, vehicle searches etc. If I need a combat light I have a M3 which I have the upgraded 225 lumen lamps for. I still dont know id 130 bucks is worth the upgrade though.

I also use my light in potential explosive enviroments as well so I need a light in which the bezel doesent get too hot. This was one concern I had with the xenon bulbs. They get real hot. I have a browning black ice head lamp which I use as well, but once again the light output is too low for certain jobs.

getting some good ideas. Thanks guys

I've seen where those new Cree LEDs are capable of over 500 lumens unregulated. I wonder how the Lithiums batteries will do with a semiconductor shorted across them.

Hi Taurus,

Sounds like you need something like the Fenix T1.

https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_85&products_id=386

Fenix T1 is a good light but i find the clip abit annoying hope the TK10 i ordered comes soon. my preffered carry light is the derelight CL1H V3 i have all 3 models plus assorted derelight dropins.

Though not for the E2, only (6P, 6Z, C2, M2, G2) Malkoff dropins are about the best you can get. The only problem is availability, they go fast.

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop2/

tell me about it they keep becoming avaliable while i am at work by the time i get home they are gone

Hi Jackal,

I recently got hold of a Ultrafire WF-502B and a Cree Q5 drop in for about $35 from Deal Extreme.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3371
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11074

Not as bright as the Fenix T1 or as tough but allows the use of 18650 2400mA 3.7 lithium rechargables. I got fed up paying for CR123s Although the Fenix does work nicely with the AW's RCR123A 750mah rechargable cells. The Ultrafire is surprisingly well made for such a cheap flashlight.

i have 5 ultrafire 501b's 3 x P4 sku:6090 2 x Q5 sku:11622 1 x R2 sku:11836

Romisen RC-M4 3V~8V Cree 1-Mode Flashlight (2xCR123/1x18650)

Price: $17.30
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7934

is a good host to with a better finish than the ultrafires

solarforce L2 is a good P60 host but you have to wet and dry the barrel abit to fir protected 18650 cells, but protected ultrafire 17670 cells fit as do protected rcr123's

i am abit of a flashaholic

fenix are ment to be bring out an 18650 light. till then the Derelights are my preffered carry.

1S(1-stage) cree XR-E Q5 module
Input Range: 2.8~4.2V
Output Range: 1.2A
Battery Type: 1x18650,1x17670
Features:
constant output at it's fully input range
over discharge protection
$32

http://www.dereelight.com/module-list.htm

an outstanding module

The Romisen RC-M4 3V~8V Cree 1-Mode Flashlight looks pretty good especially for the price. Do you know if it has a bezel diameter to take the 1.25 inch 31.74 mm FM35 Surefire Red Filter attachment? The Ultrafire WF-501B seems to have the correct bezel diameter.

http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/870/sesent/00/FM35-Red-Filter

the 3 RC-m4's i have measure 31.67mm across the bezel

For what it's worth I've carried a Surefire E1e-HA with KL4 head every day for, what has to be, at least five years now. I've even carried it in the same pocket as my keys the majority of the time. Believe it or not, it still looks near brand new, with the coating just slightly worn around the edges and on the rubber button. The glass isn't scratched/chipped up either, thanks to Surefire's sapphire coating.

I've taken this thing everywhere. I've had it snowmobiling where it was -30*F, I've had it in Aruba, the Bahamas, I've used it working construction, I've swam with it in my pocket, its been buried in sand and clay, it's fallen from a scissor-lift onto a concrete floor. Even through all that I've never had a single problem with it. The only maintenance I do is clean and re-grease the threads every six months or so.

IMO the KL4 head is worth it. I've never seen a more durable flashlight. I used to kill Maglights all the time, I rarely had them last more than a year. Yet I don't doubt this Surefire will last me for at least another 5 years.


On a side note the KL4 head is 100 lumens now, not 65. Even my older one on my single battery E1e body is very bright, enough to temporarily blind someone (as I've found out on a few occasions.) It's nearly as bright as my regular E2e.

Now, on the E2e body the KL4 has more flood than the regular E2e (making it good for searching inside a dark area), but I don't think it throws as much light over a distance as the regular incandescent E2e does. It's pretty close though. Either way, I've never felt lacking with the KL4 driven on one battery, never mind two.


You can see my light in this picture:

Paul810- Thanks a lot for the good info

despite the one bulb failure I agree that the surefires are tough. I think there is a video somewhere that shows a dude hammering a bunch of nails with one(not that I ever intend to do this) but I did clock a guy up side the head with my M3 combat light once with no lessening of performance. My beef is not with the surefire but rather the xenon bulbs which are bright but burn out fast and are really expensive. I get (maybe) a months use from a bulb at 13-16 bucks each. I also didnt like the fact that I could not store a spare inside the flashlight body itself and my spares carrier was not always with me due to its bulk.



I wish I had a dollar for each one killed....



this is great. I must have been looking at a older add because the only place that references this is the actual surefire website.

I think I may be sold on the KL4. Best of all I appear to be able to use the slide on red filters that I already have.

Thanks again

Taurus,

I have a Surefire G2 now with the P60L assembly as well as the P60 and the P61 for what it's worth.

However, my main reason in this reply is not to talk about flash lights (torches) but to express my happiness that you are still safe and well over there.

Thank you for your sacrifice sir, I wish you well, and hope that you will continue to stay safe.

You will continue to be in my thoughts an prayers.

Sincerely,

Blitz

Wow dude. Thanks for the kind words but...

I have been home about a week now. I was not on a full deployment but rather a TAV(tactical assistance visit) To replace a guy who was badly injured until the next troop rotation. Just long enough for 5-6 missions. I am all in one piece and only suffered a broken nose, busted lips, two loose teeth and some fairly good bruises(I thank God every night for this cause a lot of guys are not so fortunate with their injuries)

I got a bit of time off and then I start work up training for task force 1-09 which will be a full deployment.

After spending some quality time with the family I plan to hit the outdoors once again and not worry about that hell hole until I have to go back.

Besides, hiking is a lot funner when you arnt getting shot at, and hunting is great when the deer dont shoot back

Take care

Damn. All this flashlight talk has forced my hand! I picked up 2 cheap Dorcy flash lights on the way home and it seems my prophecy was self fulfilling.

The 1 Watt light with a focusing beam I picked up didn't work right out of the bubble pack...it's dead right in the circuit by my tests and the circuitry is a single piece crimped into the end of the light so it's not serviceable...I guess it's going back.

The other is a 6xAA, 130 Lumen, Aluminum body, K2 light which is very big but holy light of God is it bright.

Tarus, if you're willing to risk under $20 US, I've bought a Cree LED drop-in which works very well in my Surefire Nitrolon G2, from these guys:

http://www.dealextreme.com/products.dx/category.917
The drop-in goes into the surefire WITHOUT the spring. And, the head doesn't screw down the last full turn. However, I find no loss of water resistance even so.

I've also bought 1/2 dozen of these:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1993
they're remarkably small and bright. Others have complained that they're not too durable, but that is not my experience. My ham-fisted hunting buddies loved them... and haven't screwed them up. And, they're so small I EDC carry 2 rather than backup the LED assembly. Runtime on ONE AA is very long. In fact, my Surefire is now the stow-away and not my EDC
They're not $100 plus units. But they do fine for me. YMMV

The dealextreme folks are a bit strange to deal with, so be quite patient. They pay shipping, but ship via Hong Kong post and airmail. Just wait... it'll get there eventually.

the C3 is a good torch i have 11 of them in 1 xAA and 2 x AA config's.

few words of warning the last few i have got have been the stainless steel version first one was fine the next 2 where aweful.

the P4 version is the better model as in the link above, 1 x enelooplasts about 90 minutes the 2 x version last about 4 hours with 2 eneloops.

http://www.light-reviews.com/uf_c3/review.html

2 x AA version

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4452

i like the 2 x aa version as it gives me the choice of config's for afew dollars more.

Speaking of upgrades I just went out and upgraded my Mini Maglight. It already had the NITE-IZE LED bulb with 3x5mm LEDs in it but that wasn't enough to get me to carry it all the time as the beam wasn't very directed or very bright. Today I picked up the 1 Watt NITE-IZE bulb and the tail cap button switch.

Wow, what a difference! I especially like the fact that you can reduce the intensity and that there's a slow flashing red LED in the switch to help you find it in the dark (every time I drop something black in the bush at night I swear I'll never buy black gadgets again...but I do!)

And the fact that there is now two switches is a total bonus. I can't tell you how many times a Maglight has turned on in my bag from bumping around only to be dead when I get to where I'm going. Less a problem since I went to LED but still annoying.

Nite-Ize 1 Watt LED Upgrade Kit for Maglight MiniMagLight Nite Ize LRB-07-1W
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2664

Nite-Ize LED Conversion kit BLUE LED
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1775

Nite-Ize LED Conversion kit GREEN LED
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1776

Nite-Ize LED Conversion kit RED LED
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1774

http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=181

This last week, our Target store (Arlington Texas) had the maglight C or D cell LED conversion bulb that normally sells for 10$ on clearance for $2.68. These bulbs are fairly bright and actually will work in just about any light that is in the 3 to 12 volt range. Brand is Nite-Ize. I've been using these bulbs for years in maglights, and other D-cell lights with never a failure and great battery life. I bought all the bulbs thet had at this Target, and upgraded a couple more lights around the house.

They also had the Nite-Ize mini maglight upgrade kit on clearance for $2.68.

Well folks, as I sit here with an extra lg Tim hortens coffee not willing to start work yet I figured I may as well let everyone know about this situ.(I doubt anyone cares but I am bored......Stupid desk job)

After reading everyone's replies and doing my research I have decided to replace my sure-fire E2E with the fenix L2D as my work/on-duty EDC flashlight. After some recommendations from the good people on the forum and chatting with MDinana, Hacksaw and a few other chaps on PM.

Here's why:

-sure-fire KL4 bezel was 151 bucks(cheap as I could find it in Canada) Not including shipping etc, AND this is just for the stupid bezel.

-100 lumen output with only an on and off position. 1 Hour of max input with 2 more hours of usable light.

- The L2D has an adjustable output(6 settings) of 12 -180 lumens. This is excellent range for my use and will be good for normal tasks as well as extended searches in dark places while on the job. on low setting you get 50 plus hours of use.

-It comes with a holster, 2 spare 0-rings, a spare tail cap, and a lanyard. I ordered 2 extra red filters, 2 cone diffusers, and a orange tail cap and with shipping it still only cost 90 bucks.

-It is still aircraft grade alum,(rugged)compact enough for EDC in uniform(147mm) and has scratch resistant lenses. It is fairly waterproof according to all the reviews from other forums.

-The biggest seller for me was the fact that it uses AA batteries instead of the CR123A used in the sure-fire. True, the 123A is a more efficient battery but they are very hard to come across depending on where you are(I had a real hard time finding these overseas) The good old AA batteries are cheap and found everywhere which makes them the best choice for me. As an EDC light and when backed up by my M3 and the 500 lumen sure-fire monster in my locker this should fill the gap in my current requirements for a good, small, reliable EDC light with my faithful pellican L1 as a last resort(always on my keychain)

Of course the biggest test will be when I actually gets the thing to put through its paces myself. In the meantime I think it was money well spent.

For all who replied with advice, thank you