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#129382 - 04/05/08 06:17 PM Re: Bacteria that thrive when fed antibiotics. [Re: Arney]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
The soil didn't cause this problem, and the bacteria didn't start this problem.

Mismanagement and ignorance started this problem. Like most others.

Cynical Sue

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#129407 - 04/06/08 01:08 AM Re: Bacteria that thrive when fed antibiotics. [Re: Arney]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
An piece in the paper today mentioned the same thing.

Quote:

Antibiotics-eating bacteria in soil worry researchers

April 5, 2008

Hundreds of bacteria in soil can thrive with antibiotics as their sole source of nutrition, Harvard University researchers reported Friday in the journal Science.

These bacteria outwit antibiotics in a disturbingly novel way, and now the race is on to figure out just how they do it -- in case more dangerous germs that sicken people could develop the same ability. The next step is to identify the actual genes that let these bacteria devour and degrade antibiotics. Then the question becomes whether that genetic mechanism is something soil bacteria might be able to transfer to human pathogens, thus making them more drug-resistant.



http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-briefs5apr05,1,5660585.story

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#129413 - 04/06/08 02:19 AM Re: Bacteria that thrive when fed antibiotics. [Re: Susan]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: Susan

...Bacteria have been around for about three million years...


uh... don't you mean BILLION years? wink

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#129418 - 04/06/08 03:58 AM Re: Bacteria that thrive when fed antibiotics. [Re: MDinana]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Oh... pick, pick, pick! One tiny little letter and everyone gets excited! Fingers moving faster than brain...

BILLION, yes, BILLION.

Sue grin


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#129452 - 04/06/08 09:25 PM Re: Bacteria that thrive when fed antibiotics. [Re: Susan]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
This looks to be the same, or similar, article:
http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/n03434274-bacteria-antibiotics/

Bacteria have a nasty habit of exchanging snippets of DNA. And for all practical purposes once a bacterial line develop resistance they never seem to lose it. There was/is at line of thinking that says if a bacterial line isn't exposed to an agent it is resistant to that over time they will lose its resistance. But this hasn't been demonstrated. It doesn't mean it isn't true to some degree. Perhaps it takes a thousand or more years for the effect to be seen. Unfortunately, given the rate at which bacteria are developing resistance we don't have a thousand years.

Antibiotics should be much less widely dispensed. The main reason why cattle get antibiotics is because we tightly pack them on feed lots where they live 24/7 in their own excrement. In those conditions antibiotics are vital to prevent infections and contagion in the close-packed herd. Range-fed cattle fatten up more slowly but they much more rarely need any antibiotics.

Humans taking antibiotics excrete them relatively unmodified in their waste. If we really want to limit the development of resistance we might think of enforcing use and isolating the waste stream from people taking critical antibiotics. These wastes would be disposed of by means which destroy the antibiotics. High temperature incineration should do it.

In the wider view you have to remember that most, if not all, have their origin in bacteria and fungus. Penicillin from bread mold as an example. It took, presumably, millions of years for the tiny critters to develop this material. While humans like to think we developed them in fact we just use what others had originally created.

IMHO we need to make best use and preserve any advantage we can. Blowing the benefits of an antibiotic on useless activities or because we are lazy about how we raise livestock is foolish.

... "mysterious Morgellons Syndrome and some scientists traced it to people being infected with a strain of soil bacteria."

There is very little evidence that says this is anything but hypochondria and a desire to be 'special'. Essentially a psychological condition. Possibly including a form of Münchhausen's syndrome. The supposed relationship between a known bacteria and Morgellans, assuming it is an actual disease, is based entirely on a known tendency of this bacteria to produce something resembling threads and an assumption that the visually similar stringy structures have something in common. So far there is little to no evidence to support this assumption.

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#129490 - 04/07/08 01:24 PM Re: Bacteria that thrive when fed antibiotics. [Re: Art_in_FL]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Antibiotics have been around almost as long as bacteria have been. Penicillin is a mold that grows in the soil in temperate climates, and has been for a long time. Some antibiotics are synthetic, but many originated from natural sources.

As for the endochrine waste cycle, we've addressed that before, and I think it is safe to say that hormones and pharmaceutical excretions into the environment have a relatively short half life due to biologic processes, free radical decay, and other incdental chemical treatments.

This is like the DDT blowout in the 70s, when everyone was sure we would destroy the ecosystem. Come to find out migratory waterfowl populations have not been decimated by DDT, despite it's persistence and a wholesale lack of effort at remediation. What's more, all those waterfowl that head to central America for the winter go places where widespread use of DDT continued long after it was banned in the US (in some places down south, it is still being used to control malaria). Not something the enviro-mentals will admit openly. So much for "Silent Spring".

With ambient levels of undesirable waste products sitting at ppb still, and the fact that these products do not bioaccumulate, I would be more concerned about sunspot activity increasing the background radiation levels, which I am not. Besides, RO filters on waste stream outfalls are being mandated more and more, which fairly preclude the long chain molecule strands like hormones and pharmaceuticals from re-entering the environment. Septic tanks are a bigger problem, but with the cost of installing those now solidly in 5 figures, I expect process tanks to replace them more and more. Even so, the wee beasties in both septic systems and wastewater treatment plants do a pretty good job of digesting most of the organic waste products into inert constituents.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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