resqman: I hope I didn't offend you or anyone else. ("Messing about with flint and steel is great in theory,") I certainly don't expect to find flamethrowers or propane torches on commercial airliners, either. My point was simply that, in case of a casualty going into shock, you need to start a fire as quickly as possible, so use the most effective means at hand. In a survival situation, depending on the urgency, I might well choose to save the matches and use the flint/steel, even if I'm not highly proficient in their use. In a first-aid situation where I needed the fire immediately, I'd likely have no qualms about using a signal flare or gunpowder from a couple of shotgun shells, if necessary. I agree, if you're highly proficient with all methods of firestarting, and can start a bonfire in under 30 seconds with a handful of dead pine needles and your mag/flint, more power to you; I'll be glad to have you along. But is everyone on the forum as proficient as you? I know I'm not. :-)<br><br>"Last time I was on a flight, I noticed a sticker on one of the overhead bins indicating first aid. I opened the overhead bin and found a first aid kit about half the size of a briefcase."<br><br>I'm not sure what you think this proves. Surely they wouldn't keep expensive items like AEDs, medications, or large items like stretchers in the overhead bins? I think the common first aid supplies are kept ready to hand, but I believe they have a *limited* stock of other first aid supplies that are used more rarely. (I can't say this for sure, though. I don't know how much stock one can place in a Reader's Digest "Drama in Real Life" story, but I did read of one where two doctors on a British Airways flight from Australia to Rome were forced to operate on a woman passenger who had punctured a lung in a motorcycle crash on her way to the airport. By the time she realized how seriously she had been hurt, they were more than three hours from land in any direction. They were able to do quite a bit using the available first-aid supplies.)<br><br>"I would recommend carrying bandaids for minor injuries, lots of 4x4 guaze pads, roller gauze, antibiotic, and<br>gloves. A pocket face mask if you have lots of room."<br><br>All of this will be found in the airliner's first aid kits which are located in overhead bins throughout the aircraft. (And how much room does a pocket face mask take up? I have one on my key-chain.)<br><br>You're right, the airliner is not a hospital; but then, neither am I. I was responding to Mr. Vannerson's post - specifically the statement "So I would guess that antibiotics would not be needed, but pain meds would. As would gauze bandages, tape, maybe a SAM splint, but security might find that odd." I agree, if you're trained in First Aid, you should carry a personal first aid kit - not just for airline travel, but for any travel. (If you're not trained in First Aid, you should get some First Aid training AND carry a personal FA kit. :-) If you're an EMT or a paramedic, then go ahead and pack an AED and a stethoscope, or anything you're trained to use and feel comfortable carrying. <br><br>But I would question the assumption that you need to carry a whole bunch of extra stuff, just because it's an airplane. Why should I carry SAM splints and pain meds and antibiotics if the airline doesn't see a need for them? Where do you draw the line? That's clearly a personal decision, but I think it should be based on a realistic appraisal of the hazards. Statistically, an airline crash is so far down the list of things that *might* happen to me that I don't feel justified in going to any extra expense or unnecessary trouble. Memorizing the locations of the exits and the on-board first aid kits - sure, why not? I've nothing better to do. Carrying a pocket survival kit in one pocket and a copy of the SAS Survival Guide in another - well, I might get invited on a fishing trip, and it'll give me something to read if my laptop dies. A basic first-aid kit in a fanny pack sounds like a good idea, too. But other than that? Personally, I don't see the need.<br><br>

Beachdoc wrote: "Finally, is the issue of the crash in the Everglades. After reading accident reports in FAA publications, there were no survivors of the crash to die of shock. The aircraft impacted nose first in a near vertical dive and buried itself in the swamp. There were no survivors." <br><br>I think you're referring to the Valujet (?) crash a few years ago. There was another crash quite a few years back, in which the flight crew became obsessed with tracing a faulty indicator light and none of them noticed that the autopilot altitude hold had been disconnected. It's one of the classic case studies for CRM (Cockpit Resource Management or Crew Resource Management). I'm sure there were survivors from that crash; in fact, I remember television footage of a badly injured passenger being brought out on a stretcher and pleading with reporters to leave him alone. Of course, it was a long time ago and I may have gotten it confused with something else.<br><br>

"But I would question the assumption that you need to carry a whole bunch of extra stuff, just because it's an airplane. Why should I carry SAM splints and pain meds and antibiotics if the airline doesn't see a need for them? Where do you draw the line? That's clearly a personal decision, but I think it should be based on a realistic appraisal of the hazards. "<br><br>I agree with you that it is not necessary to carry additional first aid supplies simply because you choose to travel on airlines. I am an EMT and I do carry first aid supplies with me all the time. Personal decision. I carry extra supplies with me when I travel because I will not have my "normal" supply stashes available to me. I keep survival and first aid supplies in my vehicles, stored at my home, and kits at my office. In my normal daily routine, I know where the hospitals are located, I know where drug stores are located, I have friends and family I can contact for additional support. <br><br>When traveling, I have to rely on others to provide support for me. Those others are limited to basically Public Safety and well wishing good samaratans. So when I travel, I carry additional supplies because I feel it necessary to provide a higher level of personal protection.<br><br>I think we are also talking about two different circumstances with regards to airline emergencies. Those that happen in flight that are not aircraft related, passengers or yourself requiring medical assistance, versus aircraft crashes. <br><br>In flight medical emergencies can be addressed in several ways. The flight crew can land at alternate locations to off load critical patients. They can get assistance to via radio to walk the flight crew through performing various procedures. Passengers can offer to assist based on their training. (Like the doctors who performed surgery you mentioned).<br><br>In a crash scenairo, you may have only been minorly injured. The aircraft's first aid and emergency supplies may not be easy to locate at the crash scene. You may wish to provide assistance to those you were traveling with. To provide that assistance, you would need to have your own supplies with you. <br><br>If the crash occurs near an airport or in a urban/suburban area, then the local Public Safety will respond and provide assistance. If the crash occurs in more remote areas, it may be considerable time until assistance responds, if ever. In this situation, it would be helpful to have your own supplies.<br><br>As a volunteer member of public safety, I have participated in a county wide mock plane crash recovery scenairo. Like any operation that involves more than about 10 people, things get complicated in a hurry. Some areas have too many people and supplies standing around wishing for something to do while other areas are understaffed and looking for even the most basic of supplies. When you have 50+ patients, how many ambulances can you get to the crash site and still support the normal work load of EMS calls. <br><br>Assuming my flight was uneventful, when I get to my destination, I am in a strange city with limited backup resources. I prefer to have a few extra supplies to handle things that come up. I frequently did into my fanny pack and produce solutions to help my family and traveling companions address minor inconvienences before they evolve into major problems.<br><br>How much is too much? I think that has to be decided by every individual. I carry more than most but less than some who reguarly post. One thing I always try to carry is cash. If I don't have the needed supply, I have found cash very useful in convincing local vendors to provide for me.<br><br>

While setting in a waiting room yesterday, I picked up a Fortune magazine and saw an interesting article. It seems that a catalog company now places a catalog in each passengers seat to view while flying. If you find an item you like you can call ahead and they will have it ready for you when you land. One of the items they were promoting was a breathing apparatus with a hood. They didn't have any specs on the hood. By the way they said there most popular item was a set of "nose hair clippers", a real survival necessity. Make me think that there hood would be about as useful.<br><br>

Unfortunately, this thread is probably a moot point, in light of recent events. I wouldn't dare to try to board a plane with a toothpick in the foreseeable future.<br><br>

Yes, I heard on the radio today that the FAA and Airline representatives spent all night discussing and negotiating changes in airline security. One of the points that both sides reportedly agreed on as a desireable change was banning all knives for passengers (as opposed to the current 4 inch blade length restriction). This is apparently in reaction to reports that the terrorists used knives and box cutters as their weapons.<br><br>Doubtless there will be numerous other changes. I hope so. <br><br>

I think Minela (?) said that all cuutting instruments, including plastic are banned. This unfortunately precludes the little plastic seatbelt cutter that I was going to carry next time I fly.<br>I presume that since pens and pencils are at least as dangerous as plastic butterknives, they will also be contraband.<br>JB<br><br>Expect poison with the standing water.<br> -William Blake

I can confirm this to be true in Canada. Knifes of any length or style will NOT be allowed on your person or carry-on luggage. They may be allowed on your checked baggage. I confirmed this with a conversation with a local airport rep. "Anything, that may be construed as a weapon is not allowed." Sorry, I forgot to ask about things like mini-survival kits. <br><br>Sometime today, the US will start allowing back into the US the flights that were diverted to Canada during the crisis. Some places like tiny Gander Newfoundland were overnight hosts for the hundreds of flights that came from Europe. (They almost doubled their population with an extra 7000+ "guests" in a town of only 10,000) <br><br>

those with martial arts training, large people, strong people, keys, metal objects, heavy objects, glass, sharp plastic things, writing utensils, anything flammable, rap music, disco, ... We should make planes a no crime zone like our schools and ban from society anyone who makes any item from paper or draws on paper any item that bears the likeness to anything not politically correct. Then we should be safe.....<br><br>

Oddly enough, I think that your seatbelt cutter if it what I'm picturing in my mind is the same item. Does it resemble those letter openers where the blade (razor) is recessed in a narrow slot? An item that doesn't look like a blade may not catch the attention of the x-ray machine operator.<br><br>Likewise, last week I saw a knife that folds over and doubles as a money clip and does not really look like a weapon. At the time I saw it, before the WTC attack, I thought to myself that one could easily place it in the tray for metal items while walking through the metal detector, and the security staff would probibly not think twice about it. Of course, if they were well trained, then they would have been forewarned of such items. <br><br>Willie Vannerson<br>McHenry, IL