So, I'm looking to replace my Leatherman Crunch in my newly-minted EDC. I'm looking at something a bit lighter. So far my choices loook like the Leatherman Juice P4 or the Gerber Clutch. Any other options are welcome.

Feel free to opine at will.

take a look at the Leatherman Micra, i love mine

I have used both.

Gerber Clutch:
- pluses: has a decent, useful small blade; can fit on a keychain though it's a trifle big; often found for $10 on sale
- minuses: gripping teeth don't go all the way to the tip of the pliers (I filed mine down); plier handles dig into your palm; screwdrivers are very limited; very tiny wire cutters
- overall, a very light duty tool

Leatherman Juice series:
- pluses: weight and size are pretty good; pliers are thin but useful with good wire cutters;
- minuses: tools aren't held open very securely (inadequate spring); handles aren't long enough to give good leverage; screwdrivers are pretty small; and IMO too expensive for what you get
- overall a light-to-medium duty tool

The thing is, IMO, you lose a lot of utility when you go to the mini multitools. If you can find a Sideclip or better still a PST-II (diamond file), you can do a lot more "real" work for 5 ounces. For that matter, a Victorinox paired with small needle-nose pliers would probably do more, but may not be ideal for EDC.

The question is, how light do you need to go? And what tasks would you expect the multitool to do?

My two cents' worth.

I don't really care to have scissors. I'm trying to keep the weight/bulk down so that my belt pouch doesn't explode from being overloaded. I'm trying to get under 4 inches and 5 ounces. From the looks of it I may be in for a tough ride.

I gave my wife a Pink Clutch last fall and it quickly became a permanent fixture on her keychain. Sometimes I'll ask her for it as opposed to using my SAK as it better at certain tasks.

I've tried it, and come to the conclusion that my Leatherman Wave is going to be as small a multi-tool as I can tolerate. From my point of view, there's no point in having something smaller if I get so frustrated using it that I feel like giving it the heave-ho. I have a SAK classic on my keychain just so I am never without a blade of some sort, but no way I'd carry a smaller Multi tool as a primary, and no point in having one if I have my Wave with me.

Part of me wants to not carry the Crunch around but, I got for $20 a few years ago at Lowes. They had some weird clearance thing going on. I should have bought two. The jaw mechanism is a bit of an annoyance. The handle will slip and flop around and the jaws come undone from the little clip thingy.

I was looking into some other four-inchers from Gerber yesterday. I don't know (he said in a dejected manner), maybe I'll research this to death and do nothing.

I know what you mean. I would desperately love to have something smaller that would work as well, but I've just not found it yet, and something useless to me is not a deal at any price.

Sometimes we can compromise ourselves right into dysfunctional I think.

Is there a Juice P4? Do you mean a Leatherman Squirt p4?


Anyway, I carry a Squirt P4 on my keychain for EDC. Does everything I want it to do, and therefore prevents me from having to show my Wave (wich is in my bag) in public.

Good point, Jim. I think we have our models mixed up a bit.

The Squirt P4 is nice and small on a keychain, but very limited, and IMHO not worth the price. Mine (bought used via TSA auction) lives in my briefcase -- perfect for pulling staples. In the "keychain" category, I think the Clutch gives more bang for the buck.

Have you looked at the Victorinox SwissTool Spirit? It doesn't quite meet your specs, but it's a lot thinner than the Leathermans and Gerbers, so it's not as noticeable on the belt, and it has real pliers and real tools that lock. I would probably go with the two-blade model; the scissors are only average.

EDIT: here's a link. http://www.victorinox.com/index.cfm?page=193&lang=E

ditto.

my squirt p4, on my keychain, works for me on a regular basis.

my wave is on my pack, in my car, nearby, if needed.

just as my real tools are in the garage, in a tool box.

Juice, Squirt...my confusion. Sorry. Squirt P4 was the intended object.

The Spirit looks rather nice. It is very close to the Crunch. However, it looks to have a little more functionality. I'll go look at one. Thanks.

I second the spirit s... lives in my edc bag and use it daily. Always with me.

I carry a Squirt P4 and a Squirt S4 on my keychain, with Swiss Tool Spirit in my kit. Handles everything I want them to do.
My kit also has a small pair of ignition pliers for bigger jobs

I have a P4 and like it. The pliers aren't up to big jobs, but they are OK as tongs and for things like cutting and bending safety pins. I was surprised at how useful the small philips screwdriver is. It often fits where one from the bigger tools won't.

I also have several in the Juice range, and currently every-day carry a Juice Cs4. To some extent bigger is better, but I suspect the cases where the P4 is inadequate but a Juice sufficient are rare. Generally if the P4 can't manage, you need something a lot bigger rather than just a little bit bigger. Eg for opening packages, in my experience there's not much difference between the blade on the P4 and the blade on the Juice. For a real cutting job I use one of my Ritters.

I am a fan of the Leatherman tools and own a few.

I bought a P4 about a year ago because I use pliers more than the scissors, I intended to attach it to my keyring.

The problem is that after carrying a full-sized Leatherman (PST, Wave and now TTi) on my belt for about 14 years I just cannot bring myself to stop, the P4 is still unused in my knife drawer. I guess I just do not have faith in it's small size.

Maybe I will use it on an EDC lanyard I have been thinking about making (whistle, spark-rod, multi-tool, mirror, para-cord) or in a readily accessable PSK.

How tough/useful is the P4?

Thanks,

Mike

I use a Leatherman TTi for serious stuff (work) and a Juice XE6 for E.D.C. UK carry laws being what they are. I have looked at a lot of mini tools and the XE6 is by far away the best of the bunch.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

I have one simple question: Why in the Sam Hill do these companies waste space with a corkscrew? It is totally useless to me. I can't think laterally on this one.

Tradition for one. I've used the corkscrew in a SAK as a leather awl before.

Believe it or not, I actually got to use my Swiss Army Knife’s corkscrew as a corkscrew once. My former employer got a bottle of champagne for a Christmas celebration at work one year, but no one could find the darn corkscrew in the kitchen drawers so we could open it. My Swiss Army Knife came to the rescue and “ensured the survival of the Christmas spirit”! (Yeah, I know… lame attempt at justifying the corkscrew for survival purposes. Sue me.)

Well, the Juice series is Leatherman's attempt to compete directly with the ubiquitous Swiss Army Knife. They're aimed at the young, affluent, urban crowd who ski, backpack, etc. SAKs have corkscrews, mostly, and a certain segment of the market likes that very much.

This segment of the market is likely to bring both beer and wine on an outing, so a corkscrew is highly necessary. At condo-type ski lodges, in mixed and intriguing company, the corkscrew on my SAK has saved the day more than once.

Europeans, of course, go for wine as much as beer. Even the surplus W.German military pocketknives I've picked up have a corkscrew as standard equipment. So if you want to break into that market, offer a corkscrew.

The only use I've found for a corkscrew in the bush is to loosen stubborn knots in shoelaces and paracord. It slips in without damaging the rope, you twist it a couple of times, and give it a pull. Works like a charm.

I can tell you what kinda hero I was when we had a friday celebrate at the office and the boss whips out a case of wine and no corkscrew! I got the first glass.

I love the corkscrew on saks, because it give me a place to put the mini screwdriver. I don't really have a use for the philips head, which is what you can get instead of the corkscrew on certain models. However, that removable mini flat screwdriver comes in handy all the time.

+1 on that. The mini screwdriver is a life saver!

You can put the Swiss mini screwdriver also on the Leatherman
corkscrews! Perfect solution! Why? The little tool can reach places the Leatherman can't.

Update: I was able to play with a Leatherman P4 and a SOG Crosscut yesterday; the Gerber Clutches are all in vacuum-packed sets with some kind of knife. Between to the two the P4 felt much better in the hand. I think, generally, the needlenose provided the functionality that I would need.

I also spied a Spirit. It was likewise vacuum-sealed so I could play around with it. Initial looks are that the length appears the same +/- .1". Possibly a little slimmer; minor weight reduction.

Thanks, as always, for the inputs everyone.

same carry and reasons for carry as leigh has stated. prefer the larger one but people slowly step away from me when i pulled it out to perform tasks. now when i produce a purple xe6 people carry on talking in a matter of fact way. perhaps if i had painted the Ti pink or yellow it would have been more appropriate, except to mr plod

Really handy to help untie a over tight knot. Holds the mini-screwdriver perfectly, and I've used it in wine many a time while hiking.

I originally wanted the corkscrew because it seemed silly to carry a multitool and a separate corkscrew. I think Europeans do drink more wine; especially the female ones. That said, I don't use it often. Most recently on holiday when the hotel left a bottle of wine in my room. Without my own corkscrew I'd have had to take it down to reception and ask them to open it for me. (OK, maybe that's not the best survival story on this site.)

It turns out that the corkscrew is the only thing on the Cs4 that's good and pointy. I had to change the wick on the lighter the other day, and the corkscrew was the only thing which helped. The awl is useless for this.

I've also heard of people screwing the corkscrew into a tree to provide an anchor point, although to me that sounds like rather a waste of a multitool.

I have one, but I find it a bit too big and heavy. Also, it has more layers on one side of the pliers than the others, which offends me.

I also have the S2, which is equally asymmetric but somehow doesn't bother me as much. It's significantly smaller and lighter than the CS4, but still has knife, pliers and scissors and the range of screwdrivers. It covers the basics, and for me every extra tool the larger ones adds is worth a bit less.

That said, I'm currently carrying the CS4 which is intermediate (and the most symmetric). That's partly because I made a discrete paracord belt-loop so I think I can afford the extra weight. Also because the S2 hides the scissors behind the bottle/can opener, which makes it slower to deploy.

Don't know anything about the Gerber but I have both the P4 and S4 models. I like the S4 a bit more than the P4 for everyday carry. I also carry a LM Wave in my daypack so I don't need the small pliers. The scissors works a LOT better than the Fiskar type scissors found on most other type of multi-tools. Comes in handy for trimming moustaches and is quite useable as a nail trimmer.