We have about 4 acres, densely wooded, with the exception of a 150' long, 55' Wide and about 4' deep pond, there's no clearings at all.

We can garden cold weather crops, however, things like tomatoes and corn and the like are simply not possible with all the shade.

I am ready, willing and able to drop trees to make some sunny space where I'll have direct sun from about 10AM to about 3PM, however, I'm unsure how long it will take to establish a decent growing area, or if I should just save money and buy 40 or 50 yards of topsoil soil and start there. Basically, I want to be growing in summer 2009 or 2010 at the latest, and I would like to get some advice on the idea. I can allocate about 1/2 an acre to a large garden.

Martin:
You can tell the authorties that you are cutting a fire break and makeing a stageing area for the fire season.

+1 on IzzyJG99's things to check.

Add to them checking to see if there are any "conservation" easements held by, for example, the county. The county has such an easement on my property, in exchange for letting the builder build here, and he had to replace the trees he cut down, on a 2 or 3 to one basis, somewhere else in the county. I can only cut down trees with the express written permission of the county.

Also, you have a pond, and could run into "wetlands" restrictions. A friend has a beautiful lot in rural PA he wants to put a cabin on, but can't because the "development" would disturb the "wetlands" (a stream).

You probably have checked on and/or are aware of these many many restrictions, but some members might be surprised at how many you can run into.

Wow! There must be a lot of tree-cutting restrictions back east. Out here in the west, it's clear-cut all the way.

If you can remove some trees on the south side of the house, you will also get some solar gain in winter for your home. I would go crazy if my house was buried in trees. Another type of claustrophobia, I guess. It might also be a viable argument for cutting the trees.

If you do have valuable trees, DO NOT attempt to mill them yourself. Trees of that type have more value as veneer wood, not lumber. Find a couple of people who deal in veneer wood and get them into a bidding war.

If you do have some trees cut down, find a local farmer with a large tractor and have him pull the stumps, as they won't rot fast enough for your purposes, no matter what you do.

Chemical gardening could well affect groundwater, but organic could be different.

Have your soil tested by a reliable ag lab. I would recommend Kinsey Agricultural Services. Kinsey literally wrote the book on agronomy: "Hands-On Agronomy" (2006, Acres U.S.A.). He also has an hour-long video with the same title, but of course it isn't as in-depth as the book. http://kinseyag.com/

I don't have any connection with him other than to soon be a customer of his lab services.

Sue

I agree with all said so far......

Hey Martin.....feel like you're in over your head yet?

Martin,

Go to the local college andsee if they have an Ag and/or Forestry program. Offer to have the students come and identify the trees, attempt to determine health, and make recommendations on "thinning".

I would get a hold of the Penn Dutch in the area and pick there brains. You may allow them access to the wood. When I was stationed at McGuire AFB a few years ago there were tons of Amish/Penn Dutch furniture makers around. That is of course depending on where you are in Bucks County.

As a side note: I was part of a theater company in Morrisville, PA right by the Calhoun Street bridge.

Excellent idea MoBOB....I didn't even think of an ag college program.....

Isn’t it nice that when you buy a house and property you still don’t really own it as Big Daddy tells you what you can and can not do with it?


If it is so that you are limited in what trees you can cut down. Start out with a small garden, even in and around the trees and each year you take out more trees up to the limit. Also you could trim the remaining trees to allow maximum sunlight.




PS the less you ask the local authorities for permission, the less they can say “NO!”

I use to live in a mobile home park, they had rules against outside antennas. I was an amateur radio operator and an amateur radio operator needs outside antennas.


Never once went to them to ask it a given antenna was OK as I knew they would turn me down. I would put them up as I needed (some in stealth of the night) and ended up with 7 outside antennas. Never had a problem. Stay under the radar and you can do more then you think.


Get a good electric chainsaw as they don’t make noise like a gas powered one, and they cut fine as I have 2 of them. Do all the work on a Sunday at one time per tree, clean up your mess, do it in moderation and I would guess it can be workable for you.

Perhaps start with a woodlot management plan? The trees are a significant resource, either for sale as pulp/lumber or as fuel, and take a long time to replace if cut in error. Looks like these folks do it in Bucks County: http://www.savatree.com/woodlot-management.html

State universities often offer cooperative extension programs for small farms, woodlots and pond management. I have used these services in NY state with good results. Penn State website seems promising: http://www.extension.psu.edu/

Then the only other thing you need is a Troy Bilt Rototiller (http://www.troybilt.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_14102_91388_54971_-1), the cadillac of walk-behind tillers, capable of turning a parking lot into a petunia bed in 2 passes, the mainstay of every hippie dropout agricultural commune that popped up like mushrooms in the 60's. I used one for seevral years gardening in the Adirondack Mountains, and found it too be most effective. If you are starting with good Pennsylvania hardwood forest humus, you may have everything you need right there on your acreage. If not, cooperative extension will tell you what you need. If you decide to add livestock, goats are easier than cows, and pigs are just too smart for ease of management. Good Luck!

Wow.
OK, first of all...I am well aware of the limits of the tree-clearing - I'm allowed no more than 20, and there's no restricted species. The trees I'd be dropping are mostly Tulip Poplars, a horrid tree for lumber, firewood and just about everything else. They are weak, they drop sap, and they are frightfully tall and fast-growing. My pond is man-made, it was originally going to be the basement of the house, but they hit water, so they moved the house closer to the road. I don't need any special permits to create a garden, it's going to be too small.

As you can see from this picture I took of my house 2 winters ago, I have PLENTY of wooded land around me, and I'm taking advantage of the fact that the pond is already an open area just north of the proposed garden:


The purpose of this garden is to grow FOOD to EAT. I like a nice fresh green bean and we love to can tomatoes. My last garden was not so big, but was really productive. My "cooperative extension" is anything but "cooperative" being unavailable by phone when I can call and unresponsive to email. So, basically, I'm looking to learn what I can from others who might have done something like this.