Got the new RC-4 today, initial impressions are VERY high, razor sharp even after a short hacking & slicing session in some dried maple!

Overall length:9.0"
Cutting Edge Length:4.06"
Blade Length:4.5"
Blade Width:1.25"
Steel:1095 carbon with protective coating
Weight (knife only):7.4 ounces

I own an Ontario RAT3 (in D2 which I now despise ). From what I understand, the RC knives have slightly longer handles and are a step-up in quality of manufacture. Great photos!

I like the look, wish I had the money and need for one. I am kinda topheavy on knives, and have several kit knives left to complete...

Been researching the RC-4 for a couple of hours since I read the post. Gotta have one! Great pics by the way.

Great knives great guys.
To all you Ontario-RAT fans; Ontario is in the process of attempting to legally force RAT Cutlery to lose their name. I sent OKC a nasty email telling them as a O-Rat owner I will throw/give away my Rat-7 and Rat-3 and never buy another Ontarion, Old Hickory or Queen knife if they keep this up.
I thought I would update the ETS crowd. Tell OKC what you think about their heavy handed tactics toward a small company.
I am sure the RAT Cutlery knives are top notch; I will have to get one.
Bill

Edit; I see Bear Claw CL posted a link about thhis at the bottom of his post.

I too just fired off an e-mail stating I will boycott Ontario Knives until thay drop the lawsuit. I have one of their large RTAK knives and would trade it for the real deal anyday.

-Bill Liptak

Good job Bill, keep the consumer pressure on. Money talks and so do happy consumer referals that we all will withhold.
Bill

With all due respect, fellows, I would lean toward more respect for Ontario's suit. They've been making knives for a long time (and most of them right here in the USA - a plus). If I have the story right, the Randall RAT series is owned by Ontario and they may have a point to their lawsuit.... well, certainly they think they do. Also, there's almost certainly more to the lawsuit than we can find out.

I'd let them settle it between themselves in court. RAT Cutlery based their name on Ontario's RAT series. I wouldn't speculate as to who's right or who might win out, but I would say they might have a point.

You have a picture of a boot clip?

Not sure where you got that, but the Ontario RAT series was being made under a five year contract from 2002-2007. The logo and designs according to the contract always belonged to Jeff Randall who was using the RAT (Randall's Adventure Training) logo and name since 1997.

I personally have seen 100% proof of that.

No your misinformed.

Randall's Adventure & Training is not owned by ontario knife.

Ontario Randall's Adventure & Training Knives are a collaboration between Ontario Knife and Randall's Adventure & Training.


Anyways, I received my RC-4 Earlier this week and think it's great.


-JRJ

No Bear Claw and JRJ, that's NOT what I said. You quoted it so there's no need to do it again. Read carefully and you will see that nobody in this thread yet has said RAT was owned by Ontario. Series of knives? Yes.

The only point I'm trying to make is this: if the facts are known to us and we've decided one way or the other, why would a court and judge be needed? Ontario's been around awhile, does it make sense they would file a frivolous suit against RAT Cutlery say....just for the fun of it? There may be something to it. Don;t be too quick to judge - that's all I'm saying.

I remind you (why? It's posted up there already), I'm not taking Ontario's side, nor should you be taking RC's so fast. I'm asking myself this: if RC can make their knives as they are, designed as they are, sold as they are, with the RC logo on the blades as they are, why is there a lawsuit?

Back to the RC-4. I couldn't help it. I just bought one.

Yes yes. All court actions and boycotting aside, I want one too!

That's what I understood you to be saying, and that's were your misinformed.

Ontario had a licensing agreement with RAT starting in 2002 and ending in 2007 to make knives under that Randall Adventure Training name, but Ontario never owned the name or logo or designs.

They are now trying to steal the man's own company name, that he has been using since 1997.

I guess we will just have to wait for a judge to make a ruling...

This was written by Jeff Randall:

The first thing we want to clear up is RAT Cutlery and Ontario RAT are two different companies. Mike and I design both lines but the RAT Cutlery line is solely owned by Mike and myself. Ontario has nothing to do with RAT Cutlery. We receive royalties from the Ontario RAT line for our design work.

Currently RAT Cutlery makes the RC-3 which is an upgraded model of the older RAT-3. We are also introducing an RC-4 and RC-6 before SHOT show time. All of these can be seen on our web site at www.ratcutlery.com There are also plans for a neck knife, tomahawk and forged hand ax for 2008.

What sets RAT Cutlery apart from the Ontario RAT line? RAT Cutlery is not a high production maker. In fact, you might call us more along the lines of "mid-tech." Rowen Manufacturing builds the RAT Cutlery line for us. Once you handle one of our blades you will see the quality, symmetry and attention to detail that goes into RAT Cutlery.

With all that said, we handle customer service for both RAT Cutlery and Ontario RAT. With RAT Cutlery we have a "no questions asked" warranty. You break it or screw it up - we replace it. Our knives will break if you abuse them enough, we make no claims otherwise, but if you abuse it and break it then we'll send you another one. If you have an issue with an Ontario RAT knife then please come to us on that also and we will do everything in our power to satisfy you.

You will also notice major upgrades to sheathing when you buy a RAT Cutlery product. Mike and I have invested a pile of money in molds and other components to build the most versatile sheathing in the market.

Mike and I both consider most all the production companies and knife makers friends of ours. In fact, we regularly steer users towards the great products made by companies such as KaBar, SOG, Kershaw and many others. We are in competition with NO ONE. We make no claims that our knife is the best at anything. We let our users and customers speak to the quality of the blades and the guys behind them (us).

Lastly, RAT Cutlery is heavily involved in building knives for law enforcement agencies. We specialize in private label and specialized knives. If you have a project, then we will look at it and quote it.

I don't sit on the fence for any issue, especially BS like this. It's pretty transparent what's going on here. If you think big companies don't file frivolous suits.. I have a bridge for sale, for cheap, if your interested.


-JRJ

What you quoted is from last year, much of the situation has changed since then, as a result of Ontarios actions.



03-14-08 "if you have warranty issues that Mike normally handles for you, please contact Ontario direct since we are no longer associated with Ontario Knife Company."

Ok JRJ, the issue of who owns what is lost on me. I retract any mention of which company owns who and who owns why or where. It's true, everyone in this forum knows I'm naive, so I'll concede that I was wrong in trying to make a point.

BUT...if it's not too much trouble, can you tell me the legal basis of Ontario's suit? Surely it's "on the web" somewhere and you've read it in its entirety. Just paraphrase please. Thanks.

I'll take the bridge if it's cheap enough AND delivered.

I don't think Ontario's suit is on the web, but I've seen the US Patent Office documents where Ontario is trying to trademark what would be considered Randall trademarks by prior use.
RAT Trademark
RTAK Trademark

They filed these a year AFTER their contract with Randall was over. But I'm clueless too, I don't know what this could mean.

That's the only point I've been trying to make. We don;t know exactly what the suit is. We could do three things right now:

1. We could ask Ontario and get their view (not necessarily what the lawsuit is, exactly).

2. We could ask Rat Cutlery and get their view (not necessarily what the lawsuit is, exactly).

3. We could continue judging one or the other with a biased view without knowing what the lawsuit is about.

Yeah I just came upon it at blade with post date of 12/13/07 so didn't know that much can change in 2.5 months...

I was looking into RC3 since it will fit our budget for a work knife but now the rumor has it that they may be an orange handle rc3 that will be worth waiting for.

No idea when, but Jeff posted this picture of a possible future RC-3.



Looks great!!!!!!!!

Yeah mate. Few weeks ago I asked about a knife like that and RC-3 was one of the candidates. I was away for a while and last night while trying to order one I saw his posting and decided to wait for orange to come out. Sweet looking blade.

I am planning to get a desert tan one when they come out, but since my old High School colors were orange & black, I may have to get one of these as well!!!

IIRC, back in 03 I was looking around at what I considered high quality field grade knives (btw, my definition of field grade is something that isn't polished to a mirror finish with exotic wood handles and hard/brittle metal, or very soft/malleable metal), and seriously considered buying an RTAK. Then I happened upon the Busse knife website, and became an INFI addict. Nice to see someone else making knives that look very much like what Jerry Busse and crew have been building for years. If you can't afford to drop hundreds of dollars on a good fixed blade knife, then the Rat line isn't a bad choice at all.

I hope Randall and the Ontario folks work out their problems. I always figured market competition was the best way to settle such things. Once the lawyers get involved, no one wins but the lawyers.

Just came yesterday. Got it for $91 including shipping. Best price I could find. Can't wait to get out and play.

I simply couldn't resist any longer so yesterday I ordered a RAT RC-4. I will be anxiously awaiting its arrival. I also have a Ontario RAT 5 and I look forward to comparing them. I'm pretty sure that my next knife will be a RSK Mk3.

For what it's worth in reference to the discussion of the dispute between RAT and Ontario, I came across this on RAT's web site:

"RAT only guarantees and offers customer service on knives built by RAT Cutlery Company (knives found on this web site) and does not guarantee or offer any customer service for knives that are manufactured by any other company, regardless of the misuse of our trademarks."

It seems that the issue is ongoing.

I love the Ontario Rats!! Great purchase.

2nd the Rat Cutlery.

It looks like a nicely designed knife. Like Benjammin, I'm addicted to INFI and SR101 (52100 produced by Busse's sister company, Swamp Rat Knife Works).

I have observed Jeff Randall's conduct on another forum, long before he was producing/endorsing knives. He was such a <insert insulting word here>, that I vowed that I would NEVER purchase anything with his name on it. However, like always, YMMV.

Having gone on that rant, Bear Claw, I'm glad that you are happy with your knife. It's a nice design, and I hope that you get many years of good service out of it. And I do mean that sincerely.

My RAT RC-4 arrived today and my first impression is that it is a very substantial knife. I look forward to using it but, for now, I will be content to drool over its aesthetic appeal.