This may be good stuff, but just one note: if it says "poly/cotton," then they're not USGI. They may be perfectly fine, but I just thought that it might be good to mention that these aren't government issue or made to military specifications.

> Can someone please give me a steer on BDU's? Are they all pretty much
> the same? Where do I purchase them? That info is probably back there
> somewhere, huh...

If they're real government issue, there are some variations in materials and weaves, but mostly they're all alike. I buy mine at government surplus stores in the various towns around here, so I can try them on. I've bought them in black, khaki, and navy, but not the camo patterns - I have no desire to look military. In solid colors, they just look like cargo pants.

I'd suggest trying a variety of makes, though: BDUs, REI, Ex Officio - whoever makes cargo pants. My preference is personal, and yours will be, too. I find heavier fabrics stand up better in use. The pockets on nylon and other thin man-made fabrics sag more than heavy cotton and don't maintain their shape when full of stuff; in the desert, I get some static electricity in unnatural fabrics that can be an unpleasant surprise, and while cotton absorbs sweat and lets it evaporate, some man-made fabrics don't absorb it and are very uncomfortable when I'm sweating like a pig.

I haven't bought pants that zip off at the knee, and I've lost track of how many guys I've seen wearing them - Many with the zipper pulled out at the seams, because the zipper is where your knee is when you're kneeling or sitting.

A comment on the zip offs: Definitely make sure to buy some where the zipper is well above the knee. If not they a) make poor shorts, b) are less comfortable 'cause the zipper drags across your knee, and as has been pointed out c) you create a point of failure.

The quality name brand ones are more expensive, but sometimes you get what you pay for. The REI ones are pretty good. A lot of the time, if you wait, they'll put them on sale as a "loss leader" to get people to come in to the store.

While not a mark down, right now there's a 20% discount for all REI members. If you're not a member, you can join on the spot, and they'll still give you the discount.

A comment on BDU's: the heavier, temperate climate ones are really tough, but are warmer. One option is to get the heavier temperate climate pants and the lighter hot climate shirts. This is a good option if you're going to be firing from kneeling position or doing a lot of things where your kness will hit the ground. Also, the heavier ones are great in brush and resist snags well. The temperate climate ones are definitely not as breathable as the hot climate ones.

Here's an interesting link on BDU's: BDU Info Note that the army has now switched to ACU's.

I'm not sure if that site is military issue for sure and this site
http://www.georgia-outfitters.com/index.html has AUTHENTIC ENHANCED GOVERNMENT ISSUE they claim. I'm not sure if US Calv or who else might sale them? I know they have an assortment of blends, and cotton is a big no no. I'll still keep looking around to find a site other than getting a friend to buy them on base.

http://www.georgia-outfitters.com/woodland.shtml

TRU-SPEC® WOODLAND 60% COTTON 40% POLY TWILL PANTS
(MADE TO US MILITARY SPECIFICATION MIL-T-44047E)
(MEDIUM WEAR - ALL CLIMATES)


TRU-SPEC® WOODLAND 100% COTTON RIP-STOP PANTS
(MADE TO US MILITARY SPECIFICATION MIL-T-44047E)
(MEDIUM WEAR - HOT CLIMATES)

"Enhanced" government issue generally means "not government issue." They might meet a mil-spec, but if they're poly-cotton, they're not the same as the ones issued to the troops. It's a fairly moot point if they're good quality, but I can't imagine that poly-cotton would be as strong and as breathable as cotton-nylon.

While cotton is sometimes considered a "big no-no," it's not really. In hot weather it's not going to contribute to hypothermia. However, having hiked in Japan and Korea over the last few years, cotton just doesn't dry out well in humid climates and can present a "funk" problem if you're overnighting in the field. Nylon still soaks through in a humid climate, but it dries out well. Cotton gets pretty nasty, particularly socks and undies after a few days in the field in a hot, humid climate. Give me synthetics any day. Cotton is great in warm or hot weather in a dry climate like the American SW.

The military still uses cotton content for their "all climate," general issue uniforms. I speculate that part of it is that synthetics alone are a bit noisy; the cotton blend quiets it down some. The cotton does present something of a hypothermia risk, particularly since the majority of hypothermia cases occur between 30F and 50F, a temperature range in which the military generally wouldn't issue specialized uniforms. On a more positive note, they finally started issuing wicking T shirts and long johns which are a huge improvement over the cotton stuff they issued back in my day. Even though cotton has its problems, the cotton-nylon BDU material is a HUGE improvement over the old OG 507 poly-cotton fatigues which tore easily, didn't breathe well at all, and really weren't all that practical in terms of pockets, freedom of movement, etc. We still had a few of the old OG 107 100% cotton uniforms around when I first got in which were a lot better than the OG 507's, but still the BDU's are a huge upgrade over even the OG 107's, not to mention the fact that BDU's are camo and the 107's/507's were solid OG. I remember being skeptical when the BDU's first came out, but a couple of low-light condition ops more than convinced me. Camo really works, particularly in low light when your eyes aren't able to see as clearly.

Brigade Quartermasters is probably worth a nod and a look:

http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/tame.exe/agcatalog/index.tam

A quick after-action report.

Executive summary: For the shooting sports, all cotton shirts. No synthetics!

I ordered a few of the Boy Scout action shirts and wore one to the range to practice for the shoot. They're priced right, and comfortable and cool. However, I found that shirt with synthetics in them are right out for the shooting sports. The sling was slipping down on my arm, and the stock wouldn't stay put. During the first day of the shoot, one fellow was wearing his favorite stay-cool hiking shirt, also loaded with synthetics, and it was doing the same thing to him. On the second day of the shoot, he showed up with all cotton, and had no problems with the sling and the stock staying put.

For hiking the boy-scout shirt will be great. For the shoot, I showed up with an all-cotton BDU shirt I ordered. It worked great. The sling stayed put like it was glued on.

The slacks I wore were a cotton/poly BDU bottom. They worked great. Kept me cool, had plenty of pockets. My only gripe is that the size adjustment straps on the waist won't hold, because of the slippery synthetic fabric. Well, I've got a belt for size adjustment, so no big deal there. I think the BDU design is for cotton fabrics, so it's no surprise that synthetic fabrics break the design.

I sweated plenty--drank a gallon and a half a day--but had no problem with the cotton shirt. It breathed fine and didn't collect sweat, despite being rather heavy fabric. Same for the cotton/poly slacks. Wish I could say the same for the undies. I regret that I have yet to follow up on your recommendations for skivvies, for they got uncomfortable when I was sweating the most.

Thanks again. You helped this city boy deal with the desert sun. It was a good shoot.

Wayne,

I'm glad you had a good time at the Appleseed. The closest I came to a desert shoot was at the Boulder City shoot earlier this year, and it wasn't very hot yet. That said, I am originally from Texas, and I would recommend long sleeve cotton shirts, bandanas for the back of the neck, and a good hat. I wear 5.11 pants but then I wear them everyday. I actually had a very old pair split out on me dropping into sitting at a shoot... Ah memories...

My biggest problem is with eye protection. They always fog up on me when in prone for long periods of time (ie Stage 4). Especially if it's humid. You don't have to worry about that much in AZ.

Greg

Hmm, I've not had a problem with synthetics shooting afield or at the range. The butt plates on all my rifles (except the lever guns) are all soft rubber, and my stocks have a neoprene backing, so all are sticky enough to work with synth material.
However, I know that finished leather, cordura, metal and finished wood all are going to be slippery on synthetic fabric, so I can see where that could be a problem. I am also a big fan of long sleeved shirts and bandanas and hats in the sun.

An old diving remedy for foggy lenses was a cotton bag of wet cigarette tobacco. Rub that on your lenses and it should fairly eliminate the fogging up problem. I think there's some products made for treating windshields that'll do the same. Rain Dance or something like that.

Thanks! Out of curiosity, how did you know?

"Shooters, prepare one magagine with 10 rounds. The course of fire will be ten rounds standing on the top target. Your one minute prep period has begun!" Here's me and my trusty bolt gun getting ready for stage 1.



I was one of two shooters that took home a rifleman patch.

Benjamin, It's not just the stock, but the sling that I had trouble with. I couldn't for the life of me get the loop (or half-loop, since I was using the Safari Ching Sling) to stay put on a nylon-cotton sleeve. But you're exactly right when you guessed that my rifle's butt plate is slick.

A bandana, I could have used. I forgot to bring one. I went through a lot of sun screen. Portable shade was provided, but I was on the end of the line on both days, and got no use of it.