Hello all,<br><br>I will soon be flying (for the first time), via Continental Airlines, from the east coast to Colorado on vacation. While out there I would like to do some hiking and, of course, would like to carry my survival kit with me. My kit contains several items for fire starting, such as lifeboat matches, sparklite tabs and sparker, and wetfire tinder tabs. Continental's website states that flammable items are prohibited on flights. Can I take this stuff with me? <br><br>Given the small quantities, I would think that they would allow it. However, being a backpacker, I have heard stories of people having empty camp stoves confiscated by airlines because they had residual fuel left in them. I really don't want to have to sort through my kit at the gate and discard certain items. Would it be better to stow it in with my check in baggage? Does anyone have any experience in this matter?<br><br>Thanks.<br>MVS<br><br>

Replace the matches and stuff with a 10 dollar bill. Dont want to hassel with them stop buy a local outfitters and buy what you need i wouldnt risk having that stuff on the plane with you (fire related). ive walked on a plane with a 4 and a half inch blade spyderco. knife with no problems. it was a spyderco. walker i took it out and put it in my carryon and walked thru and they didnt say a word. (i am only 15 though so i guess they didnt care )<br><br>

I haven't tried to carry a survival kit through security, probably someone else has more pertinent experience.<br><br>I have flown quite a bit, though, and I've had it drummed into me by experience that what they object to, except for obvious and extreme cases, is largely unpredictable. Sometimes it's amazing what just breezes through, and other times they just seem intent on keeping you from flying that day. It seems to have more to do with who's shift it is, how busy they are, and what their mood is that day (whether they feel the need to show you who's in charge) than policy- much like you'd expect in a third-world country. I have been hassled for a solid ash stick in one case, and a small (also solid) statue on another.<br><br>The strictest interpretation of "no flammable items" would prohibit briefcases full of paper. On the other hand, I wouldn't put any faith at all in security's being able to tell a metal box (which is going to look suspicious on an x-ray) containing a sparking device and "tinder" from a bomb- when you think about it, that's a pretty fine line. Personally, I'd check it as luggage AND arrive early enough so that any questions won't keep you from making the flight.<br><br>For what it's worth, they don't object to cigarette lighters or matches carried on one's person, and the instructions that came with the Windmill lighter say the policy is that a filled butane lighter MUST be on your person, not in checked OR carry-on luggage. That's sort of the opposite of what they want you to do with a knife, making it somewhat difficult to keep even the most basic survival gear together.<br><br>If you have the time, and are really concerned, you can do what I've done with other items in the past- ship it to yourself, care of the hotel at the destination, via UPS or FedEx. Call the hotel to let them know to expect the package, but they do this sort of thing routinely. We used to do this with computers in the days before laptops.<br><br>

Great advice, PL. My evperience confirms your observations. I once flew during a time of heightened security probably due to some terrorist activity getting a lot of coverage on TV news. I was carrying nothing suspicious, just my car keys and wallet. I couldn't make it through a single security station without at least a manual wand search. They were picking up a metallic signature from my hiking boots. Maybe the lace eyelets or the shank. At one point, one of the wand operators was beeping on a zipper. She refused to let me pass. I explained to her that she had found a zipper and I showed it to her and I requested a hand search. I had to ask to speak to her supervisor to get through the station. You never really know what to expect. Other times I have carried a folding Gerber LST knife with no problems.<br><br>I would never carry anything unusual through a security checkpoint that I wouldn't be willing to lose. I would definitely check my survival kit with my luggage. If you really feel like you need some survival items on the plane, put a disposable lighter in your pocket and a small folding knife that you wouldn't mind losing. Those won't look unusual to a security person. You might even assemble some other miscellaneous goodies in a zip-lock bag in your carry-on luggage. A zip-lock bag is far less suspicious than a carefully sealed metal box. A bottle of Potable Aqua, a signal mirror, flashlight, and whistle would all be fine. Anything that could be used as a weapon such as a wire or a wire saw, hatchets or blades could easily give you problems. Chances are good that they won't inspect it closely, but even if they do, your real kit will remain untampered-with and will be ready to go hiking with you when you get to Colorado.<br><br><br>

Both Presumedlost and Castaway gave good answers, especially to expect the unexpected with the uneven interpretation of airline rules, which varies between different airlines. I would either pack your hiking survival kit in your luggage or send it to yourself overnight carrier if you're worried about losing your luggage. Although I would hazard a guess that you'll have packed other critical gear with your luggage anyway. <br><br>BTW, the matches and firestarting gear is likely to cause no concern. I believe the law is intended to prevent canisters or containers of flamable liquid, gases or powders that may cause an explosion on board. The empty camp stoves are a risk of explosion should the plane suffer lose of cabin presure (even the luggage compartments are preasurized). Cigarette lighters and matched do not present the same catostrophic risk.<br><br>Still, you present an interesting topic for consideration. What should one carry onboard a commercial airline flight for emergencies. Obviously, there will be soom differences between your wilderness kit and an airline kit, as well as some similarities.<br><br>I'll start of with some ideas, even though some may be off base.<br><br>1. A small fanny pack to carry the items<br>In an emergency you should leave all carry on behind. A fanny pack around your waist solves this proble. It also allows airport security the opportunity to search the items easily if needed, instead of a metal case sealed with tape and cord (ala Doug's mini kit). Wear the kit during flight with the pack in front, in your lap, so items are accesable while in your seat belts.<br><br>2. A folding pocket knife.<br>Big enough to be useful but small enough to not represent a threat to security. I'd have it on top of the kit or in a separate side pocket so it can be found quickly in the dark. If you have to wexit the plane with no lights or a smoke filled cabin, you need to be able to find the knife by touh alone. It could be useful to cut away seat belts if the latch jams.<br><br>3. Bandana or hankechief.<br>Besides traditional survival and camping uses, a bandana could be used to cover your mouth to protect you from smoke inhalation during egress. This item should be in a pocket so you can retrieve it in a hurry. You don't want to be fumbling around in a fanny pack at this time if you don't have to. You need to leave the plane.<br><br>4. Meds.<br>Here I'm not totally sure what would be best. You may experience or need to treat all sorts of injuries, burns, cuts, broken bones, etc. Crash sites of commercial airliners are going to have immediate response. Extreem circumstances, such as weather conditions or terrain (mountains) may delay response, but survivers would likely be reached in hours, not days (is that a reasonable assumption?). So I would guess that antibiotics would not be needed, but pain meds would. As would gauze bandages, tape, maybe a SAM splint, but security might find that odd. What else.<br><br>5. Firestarting<br>In cold conditions, providing heat may be necessary, especially since survivers may suffer from shock. Lifeboat matches and Spark-lite & tinders, etc., should sufice and not present a problem with security. If you pack several alternatives, you'll have backup if you need to surrender one form, such as the matches.<br><br>6. Water treatment<br>Iodine tablets and/or Potassium Permanganate Crystals plus a condom or balloon to hold the water.<br><br>7. Signal mirror<br>Flares would be out of the question.<br><br>8. Sewing kit<br><br>9. Rite-in-the-Rain paper and pencil<br><br>10. Button compass<br><br>11. Photon LED light.<br>I'd have this on a keychain or a lanyard for easy access during egress. Perhaps I should hqave listed this near the top of the list.<br><br>12. Paracord<br><br>What else?<br><br>Willie Vannerson<br>McHenry, IL

Basically you are carrying fancy matches and some tinder. Matches should not be a problem. The tinder should not be a problem in most cases. I have found that if you have a piece of carry on and you pack your survival kit inside your carry on, that most things go through with no problems.<br><br>As mentioned earlier, you have about $10 worth of supplies. If it is confiscated, pick up some additional supplies at the other end of the flight.<br><br>You could also carry alternate tinder material that may be less obvious to the security types. Dryer lint, 0000 steel wool, char cloth, cottom balls, magneisum blocks, etc.<br><br>I carry a Leatherman, matches, MFS, and other similar supplies in a fanny pack and throw the fanny pack in a day pack when traveling on airlines. Throw the day pack on the X-ray belt and no questions.<br><br>Empty coleman stoves make sense to me. Even though the fuel tank is "empty", there may still be lingering fumes that could ignite. Fires on planes are not much fun.<br><br>

Thanks for the kind words.<br><br>I’ll just add that, in general, they seem less interested in small items in carry-on luggage than on your person. They often seem a little reluctant to start opening bags (slows things down), whereas anything that you pull out of your pockets is fair game. This is a little odd, since once you’re on the other side of the checkpoint, as in waiting at the gate, you can transfer anything you like from your carry-on to your pockets. Don’t wait until you’re on the plane- you need to get seated quickly. Personally, I’d do this for anything but the tiniest pocketknife. Lighters, matches, bandannas are not going to cause problems in your pockets.<br><br>I’ve never had anything actually confiscated by security. I’ve tried to avoid giving them anything to even think about, and even then I’ve had them insist on transporting items in the cockpit. I have wondered, though- can they actually take your property over your protests, or can you opt to withdraw with it (provided it’s nothing actually illegal, of course)? If the latter, I’ve wondered if you could carry a padded envelope and mail it to yourself from the airport, then go back through security, rather than losing it for good.<br><br>But then, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a mailbox in an airport, either. Bottom line, they’re not very accommodating… you’d never guess that you’re paying hundreds of dollars for the privilege of being treated like cattle.<br><br><br>

Your suggestion of a bandana for smoke is a good one because the risk from a fire during a crash scenario is a major consideration. Assuming you survive the impact, which you don't have much control over, your next major risk would be smoke inhalation from a fire (unless it's a water landing, then you have to worry about drowning and hypothermia). I would also assume a relatively quick rescue, but there's no telling what kind of environment you could be facing (desert, mountainous, etc).<br><br>The problem is that I don't think a bandana would have any effectiveness against deadly smoke in a burning airplane. One item that could be useful specifically for airline travel would be an emergency smoke hood. I don't know exactly what they are called, but there is something available that consists of a filter canister and a transparent hood to cover the head. It's one-use-only for emergencies and designed to be compact. I think it's about the size of a soda can when it's sealed. It gives you a few minutes of good air to find your way out. A powerful flashlight might also be helpful finding your way through the smoke. <br><br>If I wanted to be prepared for an airline crash, I'd want to have one of those hoods more than anything else.<br><br>

One of the problems with a stove is the fact that it is (potentially) a pressurized container. Airlines have a problem with that even without fuel vapors. For example, if you travel with scuba tanks, they are not allowed on an airplane unless the regulator is removed, leaving the tank wide open. Many divers have a problem with this because they don't want to risk getting any moisture or debris in the tank.<br><br>With a stove, you could just take the cap off, but then the fuel vapors become a problem. So you have two issues there.<br><br>

I think if you have an item that is a problem at a security checkpoint, it is not confiscated, you are just not allowed to pass the checkpoint with the item. You can choose to remain outside the secure area. You could return to your car, for instance, and leave the item there. This may not be practical if you are rushing to make a plane or you are not at your home airport. In most cases you would have to leave the item at the checkpoint and they would probably dispose of it.<br><br>Of course, if posessing the item is illegal, it would probably be confiscated.<br><br>I didn't realize that transporting items in the cockpit was an option. What was it that had to go that way?<br><br>

>>BTW, the matches and firestarting gear is likely to cause no concern. I believe the law is intended to prevent canisters or containers of flamable liquid, gases or powders that may cause an explosion on board.<<<br><br>Certainly that’s what was intended. I’m not sure how an ignition device and fuel would be interpreted, though.<br><br>>>What should one carry onboard a commercial airline flight for emergencies. Obviously, there will be soom differences between your wilderness kit and an airline kit, as well as some similarities.<<<br><br>I think this is a change in direction- I think “MVS” was concerned with transporting a kit intended for wilderness use- but it’s an interesting one, and I’d be happy to hear opinions on it. Obviously, there’s an excellent chance than no one will survive a commercial plane crash… don’t know what the actual odds are, perhaps someone here does.. but, on the other hand, for many of us it’s the only time there’s a reasonable chance of ending up in practically any terrain, any circumstances. Even if the odds are very long, it does seem silly to have nothing at hand. I'll never forget those poor folks in the '70s who were suddenly facing alligators in the Everglades<br><br> >>2. A folding pocket knife.<br>Big enough to be useful but small enough to not represent a threat to security.<<<br><br>“Craig” and I were discussing this off-line recently, and I’ve seen some discussion on other forums. I think you could probably have an entire thread , and an interesting one, on just where this line is. <br><br>A friend of mine was denied permission to carry a pocket knife with about a 2-inch blade from Ireland, because the blade locked. I’ve also seen it mentioned that US security apparently doesn’t like serrated blades, for some unexplicable reason.<br><br> I stumbled upon one on-line discussion where a person claimed to have carried a Victorinox “Huntsman” on board flights with no problem. He made the point that security seems disarmed by the familiar Swiss Army Knife logo and red handle. While I haven’t tried anything that large in an airport, I have noticed the effect. I sometimes carry a Victorinox “Picknicker”, which is a larger-than-normal SAK (111 mm closed) with a longer, locking blade, and people react to it far less than any comparable folder I’ve carried. Just looks “friendly”, I guess. <br><br>>>3. Bandana or hankechief<<<br><br>Good idea- and causes no security concerns.<br> <br>>>4. Meds.<<<br>… So I would guess that antibiotics would not be needed, but pain meds would…<<<br><br>Not qualified to say much, but, as someone who was a teenager in the ‘60s, I’m extremely cautious about carrying any drugs of any kind. The penalty for illegal drugs in Singapore is death, and in many places it can get you at least an overnight stay while the drugs and/or prescriptions are examined.<br><br>>>5. Firestarting<br>In cold conditions, providing heat may be necessary, especially since survivers may suffer from shock. Lifeboat matches and Spark-lite & tinders, etc., should sufice and not present a problem with security. If you pack several alternatives, you'll have backup if you need to surrender one form, such as the matches.<<<br><br>Again, personally, I’d carry a lighter. It causes no raised eyebrows at security, and it gets you straight to fire without the Daniel Boone act (and I’m pretty good at flint-and-steel, so I can say that). I’d consider everything else a possible backup.<br><br>Just my take on it…<br><br><br>

I've heard that there is a simple rule on blade length which I think is 4 inches in the US. It would probably vary internationally. <br><br>Of course your are right that it all depends on how it is enforced and image plays a big part in that. It's a crap-shoot.<br><br>

>>I didn't realize that transporting items in the cockpit was an option.<<<br><br>It might not be any more- it's been many years.. both times it was "suggested" by security, they wouldn't let me carry the items on.<br><br>>>What was it that had to go that way?<<<br><br>Sigh. You had to ask.. :-)<br><br>The first time it was a walking/hiking stick, about 4 feet long. I was going backpacking in California, and I figured people must take their walking canes on, didn't expect a problem... this was the 70s, and things weren't as tight then.. some airports were still only spot-checking with x-rays and metal decectors. Security went down the entire length of the stick, an inch at a time, twisting it, trying to find some hidden way it unscrewed, and then told me I couldn't carry it on.<br><br>The second time it was a set of juggling clubs- hollow plastic things that look like bowling pins, but only weigh a few ounces. I think you'd have a hard time killing a chipmunk with one, and it honestly didn't occur to me that they'd object. They were just too bulky to go in a suitcase, so I had them in a tote bag. The bag didn't close, so I couldn't check it.<br><br>In both cases, security took them away at their checkpoint, and they were returned by a flight attendant as I disembarked from the plane.<br><br><br>

>>>Of course your are right that it all depends on how it is enforced and image plays a big part in that. It's a crap-shoot.<<<<br><br>You're right on here. Aside from federal regulations, airlines have a huge amount of discretion in applying their rules. I have friends who will travel the country to exchange rare tropical fish. Some airlines will let them carry them on board, others will not. Some that allow it one time will not on another. Often, it's the folks at the gate making interpretations on the spot.. and their decisions become spotty.<br><br>Willie Vannerson<br>McHenry, IL

Clothing can kill. Wear natural woolens and cottons and sturdy. leather shoes. You dont need polyester hawaiian shirts and tennis shoes melting, or burning your skin. Many crash victims may survive the initial crash, only to succumb to shock or injuries waiting for emergency responce crews. Remember that bad weather is often a contributing factor in accidents, and that distills down to one word-cold.Seating can also determine survival. The wing area is usually considered the safest, and if intact provides an egress platform if escape chutes are inoperable. I always sit directly by a door. Women and children first is a marine tradition that doesn't work in a plane wreck. Survivers will stampede over each other to escape. lastly , a few in flight survival tips. That mini bottle of rum may dull the screaming kid in front of you, but in a emergency you may as well be drunk. The safety belt isn't just for takeoffs and landing either. Sudden wind sheer, power loss, structural failure etc. can send passengers flying without notice.<br><br>

>>Obviously, there’s an excellent chance than no one will survive a commercial plane crash… don’t know what the actual odds are, perhaps someone here does.. <<<br><br>It's a good question. Why plan for the aftermath of something you can't live through? A plane crash makes good news because it is so catastrophic and seems like something that couldn't possibly be survived. <br><br>I don't know what the actual stats are, but I think that they are relatively survivable. I always take note of the number of deaths and number of survivors whenever I hear about a crash. Often there are numerous survivors. <br><br>The 747 that blew up over the Atlantic Ocean near Long Island and the ValueJet that caught fire and went straight down into the everglades are two examples of everyone on board being killed. Also the Concorde accident. <br><br>However you often hear about a hundred or so deaths and just as many survivors. Remember the hijacked plane that ran out of fuel and ditched into the ocean near a resort beach? There were many survivors. Based on my informal observations, I think that with a little luck, you stand a decent chance of surviving a plane crash and it would be worth planning for.<br><br>Another way of looking at it is that you will either be dead or you will be alive. There's no point in preparing to be dead, so you might as well prepare to be alive.<br><br>

here's the smoke hood link $62.50<br><br><br><br>

from AirSafe.com:<br><br>(The way I read this is you have about a 1 in 3 chance of surviving a fatal accident on a large airliner. Forget about surviving on a propeller aircraft.)<br><br>"If the plane crashes, don't most people die? <br>One can argue this question several ways. Based on a review of accidents between 1978 and 1995 with at least one fatality to a passenger, there were a total of 164 fatal accidents involving large jet transports designed in western Europe or the U.S. In 68 cases, all passengers died and in 15 others between 90% and 100% of the passengers died. In 37 cases less than 10% of the passengers died. Among propeller driven aircraft, there were 178 events involving aircraft designed outside of the former Soviet Union and eastern Europe. Of those, all were killed in 108 cases, between 90% and 100% in six cases, and less than 10% in nine cases."<br><br>

>>>However you often hear about a hundred or so deaths and just as many survivors. Remember the hijacked plane that ran out of fuel and ditched into the ocean near a resort beach? <<<<br><br>That was just off the coast of Cameroon, if I remember correctly. It seems to me that most survivable jet airliner crashes are at take off or landing at or near an airport. Remember the Iowa crash in a cornfield adjacent to an airport the pilot where the pilot flew the disabled plane. And in crashes such as that, the key factor was escaping from the burning wreckage.<br><br>To that end:<br><br>1. Make sure you know where all of the exits on the plane are, not just the nearest. The nearest exit may not be accessible following a crash. Whenever I fly, which is not often, I make a point to locate all of the exits as well as read the instructions on how to operate the door. I usually do that while I'm standing in in line at the doorway upon entry.<br><br>2. If the flight goes over water, one or more of the overhead bins will have an inflatable raft. Locate that bin.<br><br>3. A pocket knife to remove seat belt should the latch get stuck.<br><br>4. Some type of breathing protection (maybe?). If a bandana is not useful, what would be a good replacement, short of the hood mentioned earlier.<br><br>5. Photon LED light on a key chain or lanyard.<br><br>6. A little luck. :-)<br><br>Of course the advice on natural materials and seating over the wings still stand. I've tried to get exit row seating, but that's reserved for better customers who value the extra leg room and I don't fly enough miles to qualify. I suspect that an aisle seat would be better than a window seat as well.<br><br>The odds may be stacked against surviving such a crash, but there's nothing wrong with trying to improve the odds.<br><br>I would also carry the other, allowable survival items, especially if I know the flight was to be over remote terrain. There was that one flight in the Andes where several passengers survived a crash in the mountains. So it is possible.<br><br><br>Willie Vannerson<br>McHenry, IL

No blade whatsoever will be allowed in a Federal Building. I had to leave a treasured spot in line at an INS building to put my Gerber Mini EZ Out back in the car. The only alternative was they would throw it out. Then they scrutinized the tiny wire cutter in my keychain SeberTool and brought over another key to see if that tiny plier qualified as an "Edged Weapon." They let me keep it.<br><br>

I think the way most airlines manage exit row seating is that they keep those seats unassigned until the day of the flight. Often you can request a seating change when you arrive at the gate and they may give you an exit row seat at that time, usually about 20 minutes before the scheduled departure time.<br><br>I'm not certain why they do that, but it may be so that airline employees can have some ability to hand-pick the exit row passengers, ensuring that the people are not obviously incapable of opening the exit doors (ie, no young children, medically frail, handicapped, etc.) Also it would allow accomodating passengers that may want or need extra leg room. It may also increase the likelihood that the exit row will be vacant in flight which would allow the trained FA's to operate the exit if needed.<br><br>A word of caution: if there are 2 adjacent exit rows as there often are over the wings, the front exit row seat backs will not recline. This prevents blocking the exit row behind. It can be less comfortable on long flights.<br><br>

Did they make you trim your fingernails?<br><br>

>>Some type of breathing protection (maybe?). If a bandana is not useful, what would be a good replacement, short of the hood mentioned earlier.<<<br><br>Maybe one of our firefighter friends will have some expert advice here, but I don't think you will get any meaningful protection from poisonous gasses and smoke in an airplane fire without a serious, certified filter media. I've seen some filter masks at Home Depot and Lowes hardware stores that have various classifications and rated for various hazards. I don't recall any of them being specifically for fires, but a study of the different classifications might bear that out. In any case the better ones have detachable cartridges and are not cheap. You would be hard pressed to save a lot of money relative the the Evac-U-8 device and you would lose convenient portability and compactness.<br><br>So if you don't want to go that route, I would suggest trying to hold your breath, staying low and crawling near the floor, and being close to an exit that you can quickly find and open, maybe without being able to see.<br><br>

>>I've heard that there is a simple rule on blade length which I think is 4 inches in the US.<<<br><br>Really? A 4 inch blade is a pretty large folder, probably about eight and three-quarters inches open. I'd think that would encompass perhaps 60 percent or more of the "tactical" folders out there, and I sure wouldn't want to try to take one of those on a plane.<br><br>

>>No blade whatsoever will be allowed in a Federal Building.<<<br><br>Actually, that varies a lot from building to building, with no apparent overall policy (like the airlines, come to think of it).<br><br>I worked for over two years in federal buildings within 2 blocks of the White House in DC (no, I am not and never have been a government employee- it was a contract). This is an area with closed-circuit TV cameras covering every sidewalk and alley (usually visible cameras mounted a couple of stories up on the corners of buildings), and a forest of radio antennas, parabolic antennas, large, panning TV cameras, and even spinning radar antennas on the rooftops. Many of the rooftops are permanently closed.<br><br>In one of the buildings there were no metal detectors, and only parcels and bags were searched coming or going- and that was relaxed in the period of time that I was there. The other one had metal detectors and x-ray machines at every entrance, and everything entering the building had to go through one or the other. The legal limit for any carried blade in DC, regardless of where, is three inches, and they had pre-measured 3" strips attached to the edges of desks, so they could tell whether it was legal instantly by laying the blade against the edge of the desk (the 3" mark was labeled "ILLEGAL"). I know that anything larger was confiscated, and I know that there had been some arrests based on that- I never asked if *everyone* with a larger blade was arrested.<br><br>It's worth noting, though, that probably unlike the INS building you mention, neither of these buildings was really open to the "public". Those without government ID badges had to be escorted by someone with a badge.<br><br><br><br>

I walked into a federal building earlier this year and they took my two knifes, multitool, and leatherman micra before they would let me enter. A lawyer friend walked in just before me and they didn't even look at her. I'm almost sure she was packing. She always does. <br><br>

I agree, I wouldn't be comfortable approaching an airport checkpoint with a 4 inch folding knife. It would seem like an obvious potential weapon. I checked it again at the link below and it said:<br><br>"Knives with a blade length in excess of four inches (10.2 cm) are not allowed on board aircraft in the U.S. State or local laws in the U.S. may restrict the carraige of smaller knives. Other prohibited weapons include throwing stars, swords..."<br><br>http://www.airsafe.com/danger.htm<br><br>Of course, the way this is worded, it doesn't specifically allow knives of less than 4". <br><br>

>>Of course, the way this is worded, it doesn't specifically allow knives of less than 4"<<<br><br>Nor does it distinguish between carry-on and checked baggage... I may have violated that length restriction myself for checked baggage.. since I have no access to it, and it poses no threat to the airplane or personnel, it never occured to me that there would be such a restriction. I wonder if they'd really enforce it- why would they care?<br><br>In any case, I suspect that the "working" restriction on carry-on blades is much stricter. This may be one of those (many) cases where ambiguity in the policies or laws is deliberately preserved to, in effect, let them enforce anything they want.<br><br>Good link, thanks.<br><br>

I once saw a sign at the El Paso airport that stated. No blades longer than 3.75 inches allowed as carry on. But, I have been to Mainland China four times carrying a 5 inch Cold Steel Voyager in checked in luggage, and a Benchmade A.F.C.K. in my pocket. The A.F.C.K. has also been to Africa and France with no problems. The only problem I have run into was in Newark, N.J., on a lay over to Canada. The girl at the metal detector looked at it closely. I stated, " 4 inches is the maximum limit for carry on isn't it." After talking to the male guard they let it pass. I guess it depends on the guard. Just don't take one you can't leave at the guard gate. <br><br>

To avoid questions about blade length etc., put all your change and metallic objects in a small ziplock bag. The rent-a-security folks at the security checkpoints didn't even look it. <br><br>

Airport security had no problem with my little Gerber last night. I showed it to them before I went through, they just said "Less than four inches." They didn't even look at my little kit, but thats in a tiny Altoids tin, about half the size of the usual. I didn't take the paint off this one just so it would be more ordinary for this type of situation.<br><br>

>>http://www.airsafe.com/danger.htm<<<br><br>I note also that literally the first item on the prohibited list is matches, and it's actually repeated in another category, but I've certainly never heard of anyone having trouble carrying a matchbook on board. After all, it wasn't that long ago that smoking was common on airplanes, and it was back to the beginning of commercial flights.<br><br>I can understand their not being happy with matches in the luggage, especially the fast-vanishing "strike anywhere" kind. I once asked a traditional general store owner for some (Ohio Blue Tips), and he told me that his insurance carrier refused to cover his store with those in it.<br><br>I get the feeling that this page is actually an attempt to summarize some much larger document or documents, and the result confusingly ignores the distinctions between carry-on, checked baggage, and even air freight.<br><br>

resqman,<br><br>I know I'm going to sound ignorant, but what's an MFS?<br><br>

The penalty for anything illegal in Singapore is death. Sure simplifies the justice system.<br><br>

That 4-inch rule is open to interpretation. The underpaid, undertrained, and bored security guard can make your 1-, 2, or 3-inch blade an exception. All they have to say is, "It looks scary," and you're cooked.<br><br>

No blades at all in jury duty. If your clothing develops a loose thread, better hope your teeth are sharp.<br><br>

You should have asked her to bring in your tools for you. Grin.<br><br>

>>but what's an MFS?<<<br><br>I'm pretty sure in this context that MFS = Magnesium Fire Starter. That's usually the military kind and it's clones.<br><br>Of course, it might be Multi-Function Spoon (hey, nobody thinks "multi-function knife" is a weird concept). :-)<br><br><br>

Cool. Thanks.<br><br>

... or I could easily imagine a security guard thinking that the 4" rule would apply to the overall length of the whole knife (blade + handle). That would rule out anything larger than a Victorinox Classic. <br><br>

Sorry. I have seen MFS so many times on this board I though I would start to use it. Oh well. Yes. Magneisum Fire Starter.<br><br>

> I'll start of with some ideas, even though some may be off base.<br><br>> 4. Meds.<br>> Here I'm not totally sure what would be best. You may experience or need to treat all sorts of injuries,<br>> burns, cuts, broken bones, etc. Crash sites of commercial airliners are going to have immediate <br>> response. Extreem circumstances, such as weather conditions or terrain (mountains) may delay <br>> response, but survivers would likely be reached in hours, not days (is that a reasonable assumption?). <br>> So I would guess that antibiotics would not be needed, but pain meds would. As would gauze bandages,<br>> tape, maybe a SAM splint, but security might find that odd. What else.<br><br>Commercial airliners are likely to carry a very extensive array of first aid supplies. I'd stick with a regular first aid kit, plus some ASA or acetominophen (St. John Ambulance in Canada insists that a first-aider cannot give any medications, except aspirin - and then only for someone having a heart attack, not for a headache or as a general painkiller. It makes some sense, in that some people are allergic to aspirin and they could turn around and sue.) If you require prescription medications, carry them, but make sure they're clearly marked as such. It's generally, IMO, a bad idea to carry someone else's prescription meds for them, even a child, because if you get separated, they need the medication and you don't (something that we had problems convincing the Scout Leaders at a camp a few years ago; they wanted us to hold all the medications at the First Aid post. When we refused, they got one of the scouts - who was trained in First Aid and should have known better - to carry all the medications in his pack. You can imagine the confusion that resulted when one of the kids had a severe asthma attack and they couldn't find the kid who was carrying his inhaler; when they did find him, they had to go through a sack full of medication looking for the right one.)<br><br>> 5. Firestarting<br>> In cold conditions, providing heat may be necessary, especially since survivers may suffer from <br>shock. Lifeboat matches and Spark-lite & tinders, etc., should sufice and not present a problem <br>> with security. <br>> If you pack several alternatives, you'll have backup if you need to surrender one form, such as <br>> the matches.<br><br>Messing about with flint and steel is great in theory, but if you have someone injured and going into shock, especially in a remote or inaccessible location, you need a fire NOW! Airliners will have emergency flares; use one of those if you have to. Use a flamethower or a propane torch if one's available; someone in shock doesn't have time for you to mess about with your magnesium shavings and flint sparker. (Something that I was told rather forcibly by my Wilderness First Aid instructor back in February, and it made sense to me. :-)<br><br>In general, a commercial airliner crash is likely to be the least of your worries. I think that you'd have to board a commercial airline flight every day of the year for over 1,900 years before you'd have a 50-50 chance of being involved in a fatal crash; and even then, you'd probably survive.<br><br>

I would caution against assuming that commercial aircraft carry extensive first aid kits. Last time I was on a flight, I noticed a sticker on one of the overhead bins indicating first aid. I opened the overhead bin and found a first aid kit about half the size of a briefcase. They carry FIRST aid. Not extended aid, or traumatic aid, heart attack, or baby birthing aid. <br><br>SAM splints are cool but bulky. I have a couple in my home disaster kit but don't carry them. Splint material is all around you. Anything mildly rigid can be used. In a plane crash, the area should be littered with all kind of things to use like broken tree limbs, airplane frame, umbrellas, magazines, etc. Most Over The Counter meds are given orally. General field practice is to NOT give anything orally to prevent potential air way obstructions for patients. Carrying a few OTC pain meds for personal use makes good sense. I would suggest you follow the guidelines as set out in your training to provide the best defense if you are called into court to defend your actions. <br><br>I would recommend carrying bandaids for minor injuries, lots of 4x4 guaze pads, roller gauze, antibiotic, and gloves. A pocket face mask if you have lots of room. <br><br>"Messing about with flint and steel is great in theory, but if you have someone injured and going into shock, especially in a remote or inaccessible location, you need a fire NOW! Airliners will have emergency flares; use one of those if you have to. Use a flamethower or a propane torch if one's available; someone in shock doesn't have time for you to mess about with your magnesium shavings and flint sparker. (Something that I was told rather forcibly by my Wilderness First Aid instructor back in February, and it made sense to me. :-)"<br><br>I would be very surprised to find any commercial airliners that carry flamethrowers or propane torches as part of their emergency equipment. I would be suprised to find flamethrowers anywhere other than a military installation. Flares can be effective fire starters if you can locate them on the damaged aircraft. Starting fires with methods other than matches can be more difficult if you have not practiced. Fire building is a skill that needs to be practiced and mostly is about good preparation. I would prefer to start a fire with matches but I can start a fire with a magneisum fire starter, hot spark, or steel wool and batteries in just about the same amount of time it takes to start one with matches. The time consuming part is gathering the fuel, not the actual lighting of the fuel.<br><br>I would guess that your WIlderness First Aid instructor has very good first aid skills. People who follow this forum often have better than average outdoor and survival skills. Building fire with alternate means is a skill many practice. <br><br>The common thread of most of the questions on this forum is what can I carry with me to ensure my survival. In other words, I cannot rely on others to provide the supplies and skills to resolve the problem, so what should I carry on my person or in a container on my person at all times to help me overcome adversity. Certainly take advantage of supplies and materials in your area, but also have your own materials that you can reply on, have practiced with, and know you will have available to you.<br><br>So yes, I carry a magneisum fire starter with hack saw blade and lifeboat matches with me in my fanny pack when I travel on commercial airlines. I typically have a fanny pack on my waist while flying. I also have a daypack at my feet. The day pack is typically only half full to allow me to add items during my travels. I normally include an unlined nylon jacket with hood, at least one bottle of water, 50' of paracord, a SAK, a large trash bag (or 3), trail mix or other snack, and matches in the daypack. Bulky items that don't fit in the fanny pack.<br><br>The fanny pack has a first aid kit, flashlight with extra batteries, Leatherman, imitation SAK, matches, lighter, MFS, trashbags, bandanna, 50' paracord, tin foil, cash, paper & pencil, pen, duct tape, chemical light stick, water purification tablets, space blanket, whistle, compass, needles, fishing line, hooks, sinkers, bobber. The first aid kit includes the the items listed above as well as a few OTC pain meds and immodium AD.<br><br>When going through airport security, I put the fanny pack in the day pack and put the whole thing on the conveyor belt X-ray machine. Once through security, I put the fanny pack on my waist. Never had a problem with knifes or matches.<br><br>

I would hardly worry about method of firemaking after a large commercial crash. The airliners may have inadequate first aid kits, but they do carry lots of tinder that self ignites on impact. I think its called fuel.Friend of mine in the C.G. was one of the first on scene in the Florida crash. there were plenty of secondary fires in spite of the the site being in a swamp. Most of the victims that survived the initial impact succumbed to shock.<br><br>

Regarding airline medical kits. The FAA has recently issued rules that require domestic airlines to carry a small number of prescription medications for MD's to use. The first aid kits are just that, for first aid when someone is injured on the flight. It is unreasonable and impractical to imagine an airliner carrying sufficient trauma supplies to treat survivors of a crash. <br><br>Second issue is that of pyrotechnics. Life rafts that are USCG approved are required to carry a FEW signal flares. It is my understanding that none are required by the FAA. Certainly, the airliner does not keep a stock of flares stowed away anywhere.<br><br>Finally, is the issue of the crash in the Everglades. After reading accident reports in FAA publications, there were no survivors of the crash to die of shock. The aircraft impacted nose first in a near vertical dive and buried itself in the swamp. There were no survivors.<br><br>Jeffery S. Anderson, M.D.<br><br>

The medical kit required by the FAA is in my opinion very inadequate. However, most MD's and RN's are not well trained nor experienced in the treatment of emergencies, especially those occuring out of the hospital.<br><br>Jeffery S. Anderson, M.D.<br><br>

I was refering to an earlier commercial crash in which the aircraft bellied in. The first unit on scene was a C.G. helicopter. my friend, a ASM entered the wreckage and found the pilot alive, conscious and with what appeared to be non life threatening injuries. He then moved on to seek out other survivors. Another crewman soon informed him the pilot had succumbed. My friend was very upset and went back to confirm it was the same crewman. The pilot died of shock, as apparently several others did that night. My point is this, both rescuers and the victims of accidents are easily lulled into false complacency after rescue. The effects of injury or exposure to the elements do not cease just because a search party, ambulance or John Wayne show up. <br><br>

I still vividly recall my Boy Scout first aid training as a youth. Almost every single treatment for injury ended with "...and treat for shock." It was almost comical. But it does emphasis that almost any trauma can trigger the circulatory system into shock.<br><br>Willie Vannerson<br>McHenry, IL

Stop the bleeding, Start the breathing, Check for wounds, Treat for shock. Drilled in by the U.S.M.C.<br><br>

There you go!! I've always heard there's a trick to everything if you know the trick...<br><br>

resqman: I hope I didn't offend you or anyone else. ("Messing about with flint and steel is great in theory,") I certainly don't expect to find flamethrowers or propane torches on commercial airliners, either. My point was simply that, in case of a casualty going into shock, you need to start a fire as quickly as possible, so use the most effective means at hand. In a survival situation, depending on the urgency, I might well choose to save the matches and use the flint/steel, even if I'm not highly proficient in their use. In a first-aid situation where I needed the fire immediately, I'd likely have no qualms about using a signal flare or gunpowder from a couple of shotgun shells, if necessary. I agree, if you're highly proficient with all methods of firestarting, and can start a bonfire in under 30 seconds with a handful of dead pine needles and your mag/flint, more power to you; I'll be glad to have you along. But is everyone on the forum as proficient as you? I know I'm not. :-)<br><br>"Last time I was on a flight, I noticed a sticker on one of the overhead bins indicating first aid. I opened the overhead bin and found a first aid kit about half the size of a briefcase."<br><br>I'm not sure what you think this proves. Surely they wouldn't keep expensive items like AEDs, medications, or large items like stretchers in the overhead bins? I think the common first aid supplies are kept ready to hand, but I believe they have a *limited* stock of other first aid supplies that are used more rarely. (I can't say this for sure, though. I don't know how much stock one can place in a Reader's Digest "Drama in Real Life" story, but I did read of one where two doctors on a British Airways flight from Australia to Rome were forced to operate on a woman passenger who had punctured a lung in a motorcycle crash on her way to the airport. By the time she realized how seriously she had been hurt, they were more than three hours from land in any direction. They were able to do quite a bit using the available first-aid supplies.)<br><br>"I would recommend carrying bandaids for minor injuries, lots of 4x4 guaze pads, roller gauze, antibiotic, and<br>gloves. A pocket face mask if you have lots of room."<br><br>All of this will be found in the airliner's first aid kits which are located in overhead bins throughout the aircraft. (And how much room does a pocket face mask take up? I have one on my key-chain.)<br><br>You're right, the airliner is not a hospital; but then, neither am I. I was responding to Mr. Vannerson's post - specifically the statement "So I would guess that antibiotics would not be needed, but pain meds would. As would gauze bandages, tape, maybe a SAM splint, but security might find that odd." I agree, if you're trained in First Aid, you should carry a personal first aid kit - not just for airline travel, but for any travel. (If you're not trained in First Aid, you should get some First Aid training AND carry a personal FA kit. :-) If you're an EMT or a paramedic, then go ahead and pack an AED and a stethoscope, or anything you're trained to use and feel comfortable carrying. <br><br>But I would question the assumption that you need to carry a whole bunch of extra stuff, just because it's an airplane. Why should I carry SAM splints and pain meds and antibiotics if the airline doesn't see a need for them? Where do you draw the line? That's clearly a personal decision, but I think it should be based on a realistic appraisal of the hazards. Statistically, an airline crash is so far down the list of things that *might* happen to me that I don't feel justified in going to any extra expense or unnecessary trouble. Memorizing the locations of the exits and the on-board first aid kits - sure, why not? I've nothing better to do. Carrying a pocket survival kit in one pocket and a copy of the SAS Survival Guide in another - well, I might get invited on a fishing trip, and it'll give me something to read if my laptop dies. A basic first-aid kit in a fanny pack sounds like a good idea, too. But other than that? Personally, I don't see the need.<br><br>

Beachdoc wrote: "Finally, is the issue of the crash in the Everglades. After reading accident reports in FAA publications, there were no survivors of the crash to die of shock. The aircraft impacted nose first in a near vertical dive and buried itself in the swamp. There were no survivors." <br><br>I think you're referring to the Valujet (?) crash a few years ago. There was another crash quite a few years back, in which the flight crew became obsessed with tracing a faulty indicator light and none of them noticed that the autopilot altitude hold had been disconnected. It's one of the classic case studies for CRM (Cockpit Resource Management or Crew Resource Management). I'm sure there were survivors from that crash; in fact, I remember television footage of a badly injured passenger being brought out on a stretcher and pleading with reporters to leave him alone. Of course, it was a long time ago and I may have gotten it confused with something else.<br><br>

"But I would question the assumption that you need to carry a whole bunch of extra stuff, just because it's an airplane. Why should I carry SAM splints and pain meds and antibiotics if the airline doesn't see a need for them? Where do you draw the line? That's clearly a personal decision, but I think it should be based on a realistic appraisal of the hazards. "<br><br>I agree with you that it is not necessary to carry additional first aid supplies simply because you choose to travel on airlines. I am an EMT and I do carry first aid supplies with me all the time. Personal decision. I carry extra supplies with me when I travel because I will not have my "normal" supply stashes available to me. I keep survival and first aid supplies in my vehicles, stored at my home, and kits at my office. In my normal daily routine, I know where the hospitals are located, I know where drug stores are located, I have friends and family I can contact for additional support. <br><br>When traveling, I have to rely on others to provide support for me. Those others are limited to basically Public Safety and well wishing good samaratans. So when I travel, I carry additional supplies because I feel it necessary to provide a higher level of personal protection.<br><br>I think we are also talking about two different circumstances with regards to airline emergencies. Those that happen in flight that are not aircraft related, passengers or yourself requiring medical assistance, versus aircraft crashes. <br><br>In flight medical emergencies can be addressed in several ways. The flight crew can land at alternate locations to off load critical patients. They can get assistance to via radio to walk the flight crew through performing various procedures. Passengers can offer to assist based on their training. (Like the doctors who performed surgery you mentioned).<br><br>In a crash scenairo, you may have only been minorly injured. The aircraft's first aid and emergency supplies may not be easy to locate at the crash scene. You may wish to provide assistance to those you were traveling with. To provide that assistance, you would need to have your own supplies with you. <br><br>If the crash occurs near an airport or in a urban/suburban area, then the local Public Safety will respond and provide assistance. If the crash occurs in more remote areas, it may be considerable time until assistance responds, if ever. In this situation, it would be helpful to have your own supplies.<br><br>As a volunteer member of public safety, I have participated in a county wide mock plane crash recovery scenairo. Like any operation that involves more than about 10 people, things get complicated in a hurry. Some areas have too many people and supplies standing around wishing for something to do while other areas are understaffed and looking for even the most basic of supplies. When you have 50+ patients, how many ambulances can you get to the crash site and still support the normal work load of EMS calls. <br><br>Assuming my flight was uneventful, when I get to my destination, I am in a strange city with limited backup resources. I prefer to have a few extra supplies to handle things that come up. I frequently did into my fanny pack and produce solutions to help my family and traveling companions address minor inconvienences before they evolve into major problems.<br><br>How much is too much? I think that has to be decided by every individual. I carry more than most but less than some who reguarly post. One thing I always try to carry is cash. If I don't have the needed supply, I have found cash very useful in convincing local vendors to provide for me.<br><br>

While setting in a waiting room yesterday, I picked up a Fortune magazine and saw an interesting article. It seems that a catalog company now places a catalog in each passengers seat to view while flying. If you find an item you like you can call ahead and they will have it ready for you when you land. One of the items they were promoting was a breathing apparatus with a hood. They didn't have any specs on the hood. By the way they said there most popular item was a set of "nose hair clippers", a real survival necessity. Make me think that there hood would be about as useful.<br><br>

Unfortunately, this thread is probably a moot point, in light of recent events. I wouldn't dare to try to board a plane with a toothpick in the foreseeable future.<br><br>

Yes, I heard on the radio today that the FAA and Airline representatives spent all night discussing and negotiating changes in airline security. One of the points that both sides reportedly agreed on as a desireable change was banning all knives for passengers (as opposed to the current 4 inch blade length restriction). This is apparently in reaction to reports that the terrorists used knives and box cutters as their weapons.<br><br>Doubtless there will be numerous other changes. I hope so. <br><br>

I think Minela (?) said that all cuutting instruments, including plastic are banned. This unfortunately precludes the little plastic seatbelt cutter that I was going to carry next time I fly.<br>I presume that since pens and pencils are at least as dangerous as plastic butterknives, they will also be contraband.<br>JB<br><br>Expect poison with the standing water.<br> -William Blake

I can confirm this to be true in Canada. Knifes of any length or style will NOT be allowed on your person or carry-on luggage. They may be allowed on your checked baggage. I confirmed this with a conversation with a local airport rep. "Anything, that may be construed as a weapon is not allowed." Sorry, I forgot to ask about things like mini-survival kits. <br><br>Sometime today, the US will start allowing back into the US the flights that were diverted to Canada during the crisis. Some places like tiny Gander Newfoundland were overnight hosts for the hundreds of flights that came from Europe. (They almost doubled their population with an extra 7000+ "guests" in a town of only 10,000) <br><br>

those with martial arts training, large people, strong people, keys, metal objects, heavy objects, glass, sharp plastic things, writing utensils, anything flammable, rap music, disco, ... We should make planes a no crime zone like our schools and ban from society anyone who makes any item from paper or draws on paper any item that bears the likeness to anything not politically correct. Then we should be safe.....<br><br>

Oddly enough, I think that your seatbelt cutter if it what I'm picturing in my mind is the same item. Does it resemble those letter openers where the blade (razor) is recessed in a narrow slot? An item that doesn't look like a blade may not catch the attention of the x-ray machine operator.<br><br>Likewise, last week I saw a knife that folds over and doubles as a money clip and does not really look like a weapon. At the time I saw it, before the WTC attack, I thought to myself that one could easily place it in the tray for metal items while walking through the metal detector, and the security staff would probibly not think twice about it. Of course, if they were well trained, then they would have been forewarned of such items. <br><br>Willie Vannerson<br>McHenry, IL

Aye,that's the item, but here's the rub:<br>a few days ago, such items were LEGAL, just frowned upon by the airlines. If you were caught with one it needed to be checked or otherwise kept from you (depending on the airline). NOW if you try to carry one, you will be violating federal laws, and dealt with as if you were a terrorist.<br>JB<br><br>Expect poison with the standing water.<br> -William Blake

Bravo AndyO,<br><br> Wonder what the terroist would have done if Crocadile Dundee was on the jet. If the men on the jet were carrying Buck 110 folding hunter's along with, or instead of, cellphones, these tragedys might have been avoided. I think the pilots might need some training in extreme tactics. There is no way the terrorists could have stayed on their feet if the pilots would have done a dive and hard bank. I know some of the passengers might get hurt but they would still be alive. It's like the Doctor told the rescue worker when that little girl fell in the well in Texas. If you break her arm, we can fix it, but we can't bring her back to life. Take the knives away and they will make them out of the hinges of their briefcase. Does titanium leave a signature?<br><br>

>>and ban from society anyone who makes any item from paper or draws on paper any item that bears the likeness to anything not politically correct. Then we should be safe.....<<<br><br>You might think you're kidding. An associate's child was sent home from a school Halloween party with a stern reprimand and warnings because a homemade Peter Pan costume included a cardboard representation of Peter Pan's dagger. It was referred to as a "weapon".<br><br><br>

>>Does titanium leave a signature?<<<br><br>Yes. More to the point, last night on the news they were talking about the possibility of forcing full-body x-rays at airports.. they showed the equipment, and said the president of the company had been called to Washington. They specifically said it can detect plastic knives. Apparently, it can also confirm your dental records and show whether or not you've been circumcised.<br><br><br>

This just copied from the FAA's website http://www.faa.gov/apa/faq/pr_faq.htm:<br><br>"Can I carry my pocket knife on board? <br>No knives or cutting instruments of any size or material will be allowed in the aircraft cabin. Knives may be transported only in checked baggage. Airlines will no longer provide steak knives for on-board food service." <br><br>

>>>There is no way the terrorists could have stayed on their feet if the pilots would have done a dive and hard bank. <<<<br><br>But at least one of the hijackers claimed to have a bomb. The pilot would not know if that were a valid threat. He or she would also not now the hijacker's intentions, such as suicide crashes. Until Tuesday, such events were not part of our normal thought processes.<br><br>The pilots are trained to respond in a manner that should normally provide for the safety of the crew and passengers. There's little that can be done to prevent the suicide outcome unless that outcome is known, as seems to be the case in the Penn. flight where the passengers learned via phone and/or internet that the previous flights were crashed into buildings. <br><br>The press has been covering the changes in airport security extensively the past few days, and rightly so. But what I haven't heard is what operational changes have been made, if any (and I hope there have been changes made).<br><br>I don't know if any of these suggestions are valid, but here are a few that I have thought of:<br><br>1. Immediate communications to all airborne craft that a hijacking is in progress on another plane. This would alert aircrews to be on the alert and help reduce surprise attacks if another synchronized hijack is planned. Of course the hijackers prevented the hijacked transponder code from being entered, which would have delayed such a warning.<br><br>2. Automatic backup transponder that activates if primary transponder fails or is manually turned of while in flight. The backup transponder would be programmed by the primary settings during the preflight check and could not be changed during the flight. Only a hijack code in the primary could overwrite the secondary in flight. The secondary transponder would also be inaccessible from inside the aircraft to prevent in flight tampering.<br><br>3. Secure area autopilot. Certain high density or secure areas could have a transmitter that kicks in an autopilot setting if an aircraft encroached within a specified range. This is a little more "Buck Rogers" but it may be possible to develop a system that prevents over flying certain areas, such as the White House. Or prevents planes from dropping below a certain altitude over others, such as Manhattan. The planes could not have hit the towers if the plane could not drop low enough. Of course, such a system has its risks as well. Like all machines, it is susceptible to failure and it also takes control out of the pilot's hands, which may actually prevent a pilot from controlling a plane in an emergency.<br><br>Sorry for the rambling.<br><br><br><br>Willie Vannerson<br>McHenry, IL

>> last night on the news they were talking about the possibility of forcing<br> full-body x-rays at airports.<br><br>I do not like the sound of that.... Why do you suppose that you wear a big lead vest whenever you get dental X-rays, and why does the hygenist leave the room?<br><br>I would not want to fly too often, as I may wish to have another child!!!!<br><br>

Significant health risks will result from routine full body x-rays at airports. And, not only is the reproductive system at peril, but other organs including the thyroid gland and eyes. As invaluable as dental x-rays are, they are used only when absolutely necessary. Full body x-rays dwarf<br> dental x-rays so far as exposure is concerned. <br><br>