Hi Am_Fear_Liath_Mor,

Nice coat you posted, I hunt (and sometimes wear around town) a very similar coat from Cabelas seen here http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templa...t&noImage=0

I have the green colour version, has been a terrific cold weather hunting coat (waterproof, quiet, lots of pockets), the only negative is that it is a little heavy.

Mike

Nice Post Hacksaw. I have two of the coats mentioned (one's rather beat up and I use it for "work" type situations and my newer one I use for everyday. I can understand what you are getting at here, but for me the versatility of the 3-in-1 system really is helpful. I've been out working and just stripped off the outter layer to keep cooler. In the cold of winter, I try not to open the vents wide open as I just feel it's too much cold air and too fast of cooling. The other nice feature is that for the money, you essentially get a 3 season coat. Lightweight windbreaker, Warm "chill-proof" fleece (if wind stays moderate, it's still very comfy). and Deep Winter. I've been out in some pretty low temps with that coat without any sort of discomfort.

I would be afraid that a motorcycle jacket that's meant to be worn in warmer months might not provide that level of flexibility.

The Colombia 3-in-1 is pretty tough material (although it probably isn't going to withstand a spill at high speeds!). It has a waterproof shell, it's fairly breathable with just the fleece (though it does tend to retain moisture if you have them put together. And it has vents and a great collar. Although the hood is next to worthless for insulation, it DOES help keep the wind out, so it has a warming effect - but heat loss occurs.

To each his own, I suppose, but I guess I don't see why the Teknic jacket is more suitable in every way except weight. Perhaps I'm missing something, but the Columbia and the Cabella's and I think even the LL Bean jacket "systems" are very flexible and offer a everything you've pointed out for a reasonable price (on sale).

I'm not saying you're wrong... I'd just like an analysis to see what I'm missing. The Motorcycle jacket looks cool, but I'm afraid I might not be able to pull that off at my age. Or weight. :-)

massacre: Don't get me wrong. The Columbia is a nice jacket and I've been wearing the Columbia pretty much any time I'm not riding my bikes for the last 2 years...here are some of the beefs which led me to this line of thinking:

• I never full zip to gether the 3 in 1 system. I build my own layers and even when I am wearing the Columbia Fleece which it came with (or another which I purchased last October which is less fluffy but wind/water resistant) I don't zip them together because if I do, it's time consuming and a pain to un-zip them to shed a middle or top layer only. This type of layering can be done with any jacket(s) which fit. The liner in the motorcycle jacket is only a vest but still zips in.
• The collar on the Columbia is huge. This is because it hides a stow away hood. In 2 years I've used the hood twice and one of those times I found it to get in the way of my preferred rainy headwear, my OR Gore-tex Sombrero. Also, the collar is too small to cover my face but too big to be comfy when not zipped up all the way (I can't zip it up around my face anyhow)
• The front zipper is not very water proof despite the flap (which only closes with snaps). If you're wearing the 3 in 1 complete, this zipper is a direct route to your clothing or you with no middle layer to keep the wet out. The motorcycle jacket has an extra flap UNDER the zipper which is waterproof and intentionally folded in a convoluted way which keeps water out even at pressure
• No arm vents! I love arm/pit vents.
• Pockets. The geniuses at Columbia have given the shell 5 pockets. One is an MP3 player pocket which I can't use because it's in the exact same place as one of the chest pockets on the outside. To put anything bigger than an iPod nano in there combined with my usual carry (I keep the pockets full) makes me look like I'm growing a breast. The chest pocket on the fleece jacket is in the same location compounding issues even further. The inside pocket on the motorcycle jacket is about 12 inches long so I can put a water bottle in there or my sombrero (it's a purpose built hat pocket so this is what it's for). The side pockets are also waterproofed with convoluted flaps to prevent water from getting in...something the Columbia doesn't have.

I've compared it to my motorcycle jacket only because it's what I started this thread with. I'm sure if I wore the motorcycle jacket for 2 years not just for riding, I'd find stuff to complain about with it as well. Driving a small car with a jacket that has armor in the back and arms is not the most convenient thing in the world for example...but then several of the jackets mentioned by others might have similar issues.

Truly I don't think there is a perfect jacket and each of us have our favorites. I know that this experience has made me question why my favorites are my favorites and if they should be my favorites at all.

$500?! I don't think you'll be needing to spend that much. You won't spend anywhere near that for a Carhartt, unless you're going for oilcloth possibly. Mine is not oilcloth. It stands up to the coldest we have here in Colorado. You wouldn't need so much for Austin. When I lived there it was more the summer humid heat than the winter cold. Of course I chose to go to the BETTER school when I lived there, but I remember growing up in Austin fondly. Gig 'Em! ;-)

Hacksaw, all good points.

I agree with your assessment of the collar size. I can't complaint about the water resistance of the flaps or the pockets. I have the titanium version, so maybe that's why your vents aren't in the arms? I have to say that the older style with the velcro flap seemed more sealed against the elements than the newer snap version I have. But I suppose a motorcycle jacket actually NEEDS high pressure resistance to water. I can't think of any time I've really needed that for ED-wear.

The pocket placement seems to be different between your coat and mine. The outer shell has two large pockets and one over the left breast. Then you have access to the 2 inner liner pockets which are both rather big.

I've been keeping my eye on Columbia jackets and they seem to evolve year over year...they don't change much each year but over time they become whole new jackets.

Regardless, it will always have a place. You can't stuff a motorcycle jacket into a small daypack.

The intent was to apply it things that you EDC. Life has a bad habit of providing you with surprises all the time.

I am a firm believer in selecting the right tool for the right job. Multi-tasking tools provide the best of both worlds, light weight and an appropriate tool for the job. But I still maintain, without the ability to improvise with whatever is at hand, you lessen your chances of success. In a survival situation, you need an edge. It can be the difference between success and failure.

In "Deep Survival" his examples are the most telling. Think and survive.

This reminds me of several of the survival discussions I've had with my dad. Why do all kitchen knives look the same? Everywhere you go, every brand. You don't see much more then a few superficial differences in blade designs. With the exception of course of gee whiz miracle knives. Kitchen knives designs are some of the best adapted on the planet because they've been used every single day for thousands of years.

People's brains are pretty similar. Our programing is pretty well adapted for survival. We have several layers of how we look at objects we find. Superficially, we see what things look like or what we're told they look like. At the most intense, we look at how things actually work, figuring out the physics behind it. The first strategy works because its fast and we can move on to other steps much faster. But when it fails the physical system will always give you far more information. A survival based example might be a suit coat. At first analysis you might thing, dress clothing isn't good for survival. On final analysis you might say, its wool, it has pockets I can put my hands in, it keeps me comfortable in a 60 degree air conditioned office, it would make a good layer of clothing. In everyday life, the difference might save you some frustration and money, but the physical analysis will always be better for buying equipment. In a survival situation, you have to chose the strategy that fits the problem. Too much time spent analyzing won't give you enough time to react; not enough may lead you to a potentially fatal decision.

This turned into a much longer post then I had planned.

You too huh?

I like the analogy about the suit coat.

Yeah, I had planned on just making the observation about kitchen knives.



I thought of that because I have a nice wool tweed suit. Other then my purpose made outdoor clothing. Except for the dress shoes, it would probably be the best clothing I have for a survival situation.