This may be obvious to some of you but I had a bit of a revelation last night that I'd like to share with you.

Last night I was walking home from the movie theatre and had about 40 minutes to think...generally a bad situation for me I got to thinking about my jacket. It's a Columbia 3 in 1 style which I bought a couple of years ago on sale. I wondered if I'd have bought this jacket had it not been on sale and if I'd have put as much thought into jacket selection as I did other other gear...it's just as important a survival item as any other, especially in winter.

After thinking about the jacket for a while I decided that I wouldn't have. I bought it because it was a quality jacket and on sale (and wasn't ugly). This led me to start thinking about why it wasn't the ideal jacket for me and what kind of jacket would be. In my mind I ended up describing a jacket I owned all along. Tough material, waterproof, breathable, vents in the right spots, snug collar to keep the wind out, and lots of pockets in the right places. The jacket is my Teknic motorcycle jacket. It's in every way more suitable than my Columbia except for the fact that because it's made from cordura and has armor, is heavier.

THIS in turn got me to thinking why I've never worn a motorcycle jacket (and I've owned many...all of which I realized were better quality and suitability than any other jackets I owned at the time) as a regular jacket. The answer was because it was a motorcycle jacket.

I shook my head and realized how dumb this was. It wasn't a cheap buy...why can't I wear it year round and make use of an excellent product instead of putting it in the closet 7 months of the year and wearing a lesser jacket the rest of the time...I couldn't think of a single logical reason.

I think this is a very common thing to happen without us even thinking about it. If in a bushcraft situation and one could take a crappy imitation SAK or a sharp kitchen knife, I'd bet average people would take the crappy knife when the kitchen knife would be more suitable just because it's a 'kitchen' knife. I can think of a dozen examples of this and it boggles my mind that we can be so narrow in our thoughts especially when in an emergency. I'm not sure if it's because society has conditioned us (us being people in general) or if it's because we've become complacent, or if it's something else I can't even wrap my head around. All I know is that I'm never going to look at anything I own the same way again or take it for granted, or toss it in a closet just because of the label the manufacturer or society puts on it.

If you've read this far I'm sorry you'll never get those 5 minutes back but I had to get that off my chest

RE Kitchen knife.

I knew a very very good hunter (RIP) who carried a nice 4" pairing knife (an old Wustoff) in a cardboard and duct tape sheath (home made) - That knife gutted a lot of deer over the years, and cleaned many a rabbit and fish

Another hunter (again, RIP "Uncle" Frank) basiclly carried an OLD Boy Scout knife as his hunting knife. His thought - it's in my pocket anyway

DW would get very upset with me, if I took one of the kitchen knives, hung it from my belt and subjected it to abuse.

On the otherhand, I have also threatened to fire on the spot a deckhand for taking one of the knives from the galley out onto a barge to cut a line. However, I have also seen guys deck carrying what most would consider kitchen knives and praised them for it; because they had a knife and it was not from my galley.

As far as not wanting to take things out of the normal function for which they were intended, I understand not wanting to ruin the decent kitchen knives. It's good to have the blades to abuse and the blades to keep nice. I want the nice, clean knives cutting my food.

I could see the same idea with the jacket. If you invested money and time in a jacket for one function, you want it there for that function. If you drag it all over the place, abuse it and trash it, then it won't be there for the reason it was purchased. It's much easier to trash the jacket you bought because it was cheap and not too ugly.

Dan: Nobody said anything about abuse...but...on that note I don't think I'm capable of trashing that jacket. Riding on the freeway with dust, rocks, bugs, exhaust, and wind buffeting is way more abusive than anything I could to do it in the bush or in every day life. It's designed to stand up to a crash and I can't think of a single scenario in every day life (short of getting hit by a car crossing the street) where this jacket would be worse for wear.

As far as the cutlery goes, I'd be the the last person to take a kitchen knife into the bush...and that's not really what I was getting at. There were times when I was young and my folks had an RV where a knife was needed and the only one around was in the kitchen drawer. It only took a couple of times before my dad added a Mora to that drawer but still...many people might not even think of those knives where it could save their life. In my case, abuse isn't a factor...my Zwilling JA Henckels get way more abuse from the DW than I could ever do to my pocket/camping/bush knives.

In case anybody is wondering this is the jacket:

http://www.teknicgear.com/catalog.php?styleid=1&pid=75

There are technically better jackets but this happens to be the one I have in the my closet right now.

Sounds like you have a jacket that will now be an EDC item.

Hacksaw,

Great post.

As another thought, innovation is what drives the preparedness game. It follows in the vein of some of the other posts where someone poses the question "what can this thingamabob be used for?". The P-38 question comes to mind. If you watch the Food Network program "Good Eats" the host has a certain disdain for "uni-taskers" in the kitchen. The same should apply to prepapredness.

Was it you that had a crisis of conscience about having too much gear or ultralightitis? I think the priciple for all of us is to practice with the least amount of stuff and see where it gets us. Then adapt and grow as necessary.

Final note: I still love the M65 field jacket. Then again I would since I'm a retired US Air Force guy.

MoBOB

Hacksaw,

Welcome to the next level, friend. The ability to see past labels and traditions will open a whole new (and much less expensive) world to you.

-Blast

Hacksaw,

Good point. Western society has become increasingly specialized in our jobs, industry and even our stuff. We value an item or a person doing one thing very well but seem to value multiple use less and less.

One of the tenets to a survival kit is to never pack anything with a single use (unless that "use" is fundamental, e.g. water, fire). One draw back to using one item for many tasks is it might never quite fit right. It will usually get the job done but it will take more effort. A good example of this is my leatherman...it is never the "correct" tool but it is handy and available and it works (most of the time). Ironically it takes more work to simplify but the peace of mind, more money in your pockets and less weight on your back usually makes it worth it.

The DW and I are moving into a 500 sqft apartment in a week and your topic has been on my mind quite frequently as well. Consolidation for less stuff and more space. I have a commuting bike and a nice road bike...I'm going to sell the commuter and enjoy my road bike...it may get scratched but I value utility over aesthetics these days. Also, to keep my camping gear (e.g. cook-sets) I may have to start using it on a daily basis to justify its space in the closet.

Good luck on your new philosophy! It has paid off for me so far but I still have a long way to go.
~Nemo

MoBOB - Alton Brown is my personal hero.

Hacksaw,

Keep thinking! When it comes right down to it, if you can't think you've lost.

I think you come across a key concept to surviving. Not only does one need to be able to do multiple things with a single item to cut down on weight or increase functionality, but one must adapt to their current situation. You never know what, where or when something happens and the only thing you will have to work with is your mind and whatever you have handy.

The word is "improvise." The best example of this is the old tv show "MacGyver." Although the show stretched the laws of physics tremendously, there was a basis in reality, as small as it was. But the concept of improvisation was/is factual.

To answer your question: Yes...but no.

Typically textile motorcycle jackets are made from heavy denier cordura, usually doubled up on the shoulders and elbows because of the need for extreme abrasion resistance. Add to that shoulder, elbow, and back armor, plus the waterproof layer in the liner and they can be stiff. But I find that motorcycle jackets are generally tailored much better than the average coat. A good jacket is sewn with bend and/or twist in the arm (lets face it, when you're wearing a jacket, how often to you keep your arms arrow straight?) and are very form fitting so there is little to no bunching or buckling. I like motorcycle gloves for the same reason. Sewn with a curve in the fingers and the palms seams are cut and sewn perfectly so there are no pressure points on your hands and don't bunch under your hand on the grip.

Also, the armor comes out so if I didn't need it during the winter I could cut bulk and weight simply enough.

Secretly, I like the armor. Once one of my friends was screwing around in the garage and I took a baseball bat to the spine (not a full swing thank God). Without that back armor it could have won me a trip to the hospital. I know of several people (they live on the wrong side of the tracks keep in mind) who have upgraded the elbow/forearm armor on their jackets for protection from knives. The jackets don't cut easy and hard armor is almost impossible to stab through. Some jackets have a ripstop design like ripstop nylon only with titanium threads instead of heavier nylon.

Along the same lines, I used to wear jackets made of synthetic materials, but after I got a good leather jacket as a gift, I can't stop wearing the thing. The fit is near perfect and even though it is heavy, it still moves very well with the body and doesn't get all bunched up like my other jackets. It also does a great job of blocking wind and water and it's much more abrasion and cut resistant. The PETA people might not like it, but I certainly love my leather coat.

If I were caught in a survival situation where I needed a very warm and durable coat, 'ya know, I wouldn't want my fancy down stuff. I'd want my bomb-proof Carhartt (ranch-wear type gear). Warmer than all get out and indestructible. But heavy. It's the heavy and non-compressible part that gets you. You wouldn't want to pack one and carry it somewhere. But if I were already "somewhere" and happened to have the Carhartt with me, I'd choose it over the fancier coats any day.

I've yet to find a jacket that suits my needs 100% of the time, and so for this reason I own several. Some are expensive, some fancy, some cheap, some rugged, all have a purpose, most have several purposes. As with much of the stuff I wear, it is context sensitive. Context dictated mainly by geography, society, and the weather, I am compelled to diversify my wardrobe thus. For this reason, you are not likely to see me wearing my Armani rain jacket in January out on the buddy's ranch while working his cattle herd, nor will you see me wearing my waterproof camo parka in August here in Florida.

Some things are more versatile than others. Where I am apt to change my coat more often, you might still likely find me wearing my photog vest any time of year, either as an outer-garment or under a heavier coat.

this thread reminds me of all the funny looks I get while wearing my heavy sorel boots around during winter. Its cold as hell and every one else is walking through knee deep snow with leather shoes or sneakers. While freezing they look at me like I am the idiot.

I dont know about anyone else but I have always chose function over fashion. When Its cold I wear winter boots, simple as that. As funny as people think I look walking through wal-mart with my knee high winter boots I think they look equally as stupid when we leave the store and I laugh as I watch them stumble and slip the whole way to their cars. Or even better, high heels at the bus stop when its -20 out side.

Given the curent decline of the USD vs almost every currency, the price on the jacket seems a very good buy.

You'd be surprised!


Personally I'm with haertig on that one. Those oilskin long coats are awesome. I was just telling my wife yesterday I'd love to have one while I was telling her about my jacket theory...she of course rolled her eyes and told me how weird I am.

I don;t know about the "perfect" coat - I guess I never gave it much thought. The one I wear the most is a Carhart active-jac. 12oz cotton duck with a flannel lining, elastic fabric cuffs, hood, inside breast pockets, heavy-duty zipper, and an elastic fabric waistband. I've been wearing one for about 13 years and it's nearly in tatters now. My wife gave a new one to me two Christmas's ago (newer version and in dark brown color).

Hi BigDaddyTX,



http://www.townandcountrysports.co.uk/eMerchantPro/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=35&idproduct=650

A mix of hardwareing Woolen Tweed and high tech Goretex in a style where you can wear around town not looking like you've just climbed Everest. But the country gent or the hunting shooting fishing brigade look may not appeal to everyone so I guess there's no such thing as the perfect jacket!!


Some may find this article interesting about the clothing Mallory used in his attempt to climb and failure to descend Everest.

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article/mps/UAN/3517/v/1/

Hi Am_Fear_Liath_Mor,

Nice coat you posted, I hunt (and sometimes wear around town) a very similar coat from Cabelas seen here http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templa...t&noImage=0

I have the green colour version, has been a terrific cold weather hunting coat (waterproof, quiet, lots of pockets), the only negative is that it is a little heavy.

Mike

Nice Post Hacksaw. I have two of the coats mentioned (one's rather beat up and I use it for "work" type situations and my newer one I use for everyday. I can understand what you are getting at here, but for me the versatility of the 3-in-1 system really is helpful. I've been out working and just stripped off the outter layer to keep cooler. In the cold of winter, I try not to open the vents wide open as I just feel it's too much cold air and too fast of cooling. The other nice feature is that for the money, you essentially get a 3 season coat. Lightweight windbreaker, Warm "chill-proof" fleece (if wind stays moderate, it's still very comfy). and Deep Winter. I've been out in some pretty low temps with that coat without any sort of discomfort.

I would be afraid that a motorcycle jacket that's meant to be worn in warmer months might not provide that level of flexibility.

The Colombia 3-in-1 is pretty tough material (although it probably isn't going to withstand a spill at high speeds!). It has a waterproof shell, it's fairly breathable with just the fleece (though it does tend to retain moisture if you have them put together. And it has vents and a great collar. Although the hood is next to worthless for insulation, it DOES help keep the wind out, so it has a warming effect - but heat loss occurs.

To each his own, I suppose, but I guess I don't see why the Teknic jacket is more suitable in every way except weight. Perhaps I'm missing something, but the Columbia and the Cabella's and I think even the LL Bean jacket "systems" are very flexible and offer a everything you've pointed out for a reasonable price (on sale).

I'm not saying you're wrong... I'd just like an analysis to see what I'm missing. The Motorcycle jacket looks cool, but I'm afraid I might not be able to pull that off at my age. Or weight. :-)

massacre: Don't get me wrong. The Columbia is a nice jacket and I've been wearing the Columbia pretty much any time I'm not riding my bikes for the last 2 years...here are some of the beefs which led me to this line of thinking:

• I never full zip to gether the 3 in 1 system. I build my own layers and even when I am wearing the Columbia Fleece which it came with (or another which I purchased last October which is less fluffy but wind/water resistant) I don't zip them together because if I do, it's time consuming and a pain to un-zip them to shed a middle or top layer only. This type of layering can be done with any jacket(s) which fit. The liner in the motorcycle jacket is only a vest but still zips in.
• The collar on the Columbia is huge. This is because it hides a stow away hood. In 2 years I've used the hood twice and one of those times I found it to get in the way of my preferred rainy headwear, my OR Gore-tex Sombrero. Also, the collar is too small to cover my face but too big to be comfy when not zipped up all the way (I can't zip it up around my face anyhow)
• The front zipper is not very water proof despite the flap (which only closes with snaps). If you're wearing the 3 in 1 complete, this zipper is a direct route to your clothing or you with no middle layer to keep the wet out. The motorcycle jacket has an extra flap UNDER the zipper which is waterproof and intentionally folded in a convoluted way which keeps water out even at pressure
• No arm vents! I love arm/pit vents.
• Pockets. The geniuses at Columbia have given the shell 5 pockets. One is an MP3 player pocket which I can't use because it's in the exact same place as one of the chest pockets on the outside. To put anything bigger than an iPod nano in there combined with my usual carry (I keep the pockets full) makes me look like I'm growing a breast. The chest pocket on the fleece jacket is in the same location compounding issues even further. The inside pocket on the motorcycle jacket is about 12 inches long so I can put a water bottle in there or my sombrero (it's a purpose built hat pocket so this is what it's for). The side pockets are also waterproofed with convoluted flaps to prevent water from getting in...something the Columbia doesn't have.

I've compared it to my motorcycle jacket only because it's what I started this thread with. I'm sure if I wore the motorcycle jacket for 2 years not just for riding, I'd find stuff to complain about with it as well. Driving a small car with a jacket that has armor in the back and arms is not the most convenient thing in the world for example...but then several of the jackets mentioned by others might have similar issues.

Truly I don't think there is a perfect jacket and each of us have our favorites. I know that this experience has made me question why my favorites are my favorites and if they should be my favorites at all.

$500?! I don't think you'll be needing to spend that much. You won't spend anywhere near that for a Carhartt, unless you're going for oilcloth possibly. Mine is not oilcloth. It stands up to the coldest we have here in Colorado. You wouldn't need so much for Austin. When I lived there it was more the summer humid heat than the winter cold. Of course I chose to go to the BETTER school when I lived there, but I remember growing up in Austin fondly. Gig 'Em! ;-)

Hacksaw, all good points.

I agree with your assessment of the collar size. I can't complaint about the water resistance of the flaps or the pockets. I have the titanium version, so maybe that's why your vents aren't in the arms? I have to say that the older style with the velcro flap seemed more sealed against the elements than the newer snap version I have. But I suppose a motorcycle jacket actually NEEDS high pressure resistance to water. I can't think of any time I've really needed that for ED-wear.

The pocket placement seems to be different between your coat and mine. The outer shell has two large pockets and one over the left breast. Then you have access to the 2 inner liner pockets which are both rather big.

I've been keeping my eye on Columbia jackets and they seem to evolve year over year...they don't change much each year but over time they become whole new jackets.

Regardless, it will always have a place. You can't stuff a motorcycle jacket into a small daypack.

The intent was to apply it things that you EDC. Life has a bad habit of providing you with surprises all the time.

I am a firm believer in selecting the right tool for the right job. Multi-tasking tools provide the best of both worlds, light weight and an appropriate tool for the job. But I still maintain, without the ability to improvise with whatever is at hand, you lessen your chances of success. In a survival situation, you need an edge. It can be the difference between success and failure.

In "Deep Survival" his examples are the most telling. Think and survive.

This reminds me of several of the survival discussions I've had with my dad. Why do all kitchen knives look the same? Everywhere you go, every brand. You don't see much more then a few superficial differences in blade designs. With the exception of course of gee whiz miracle knives. Kitchen knives designs are some of the best adapted on the planet because they've been used every single day for thousands of years.

People's brains are pretty similar. Our programing is pretty well adapted for survival. We have several layers of how we look at objects we find. Superficially, we see what things look like or what we're told they look like. At the most intense, we look at how things actually work, figuring out the physics behind it. The first strategy works because its fast and we can move on to other steps much faster. But when it fails the physical system will always give you far more information. A survival based example might be a suit coat. At first analysis you might thing, dress clothing isn't good for survival. On final analysis you might say, its wool, it has pockets I can put my hands in, it keeps me comfortable in a 60 degree air conditioned office, it would make a good layer of clothing. In everyday life, the difference might save you some frustration and money, but the physical analysis will always be better for buying equipment. In a survival situation, you have to chose the strategy that fits the problem. Too much time spent analyzing won't give you enough time to react; not enough may lead you to a potentially fatal decision.

This turned into a much longer post then I had planned.

You too huh?

I like the analogy about the suit coat.

Yeah, I had planned on just making the observation about kitchen knives.



I thought of that because I have a nice wool tweed suit. Other then my purpose made outdoor clothing. Except for the dress shoes, it would probably be the best clothing I have for a survival situation.

This thread immediately makes me think of how my wife occasionally wears shoes that she admits are entirely uncomfortable, and make her feet sweat and eventually swell if worn too long...why? for the usual suspect reason: fashion. Me personally, I decided long ago that I would never wear anything that didn't serve at least it's basic purpose admirably... shoes, pants, shirts, coats, undergarments, you name it, if it doesn't satisfy it's primary function then it's useless in my opinion.

On a side note, a good friend of mine in college use to ALWAYS wear his shoes... even when he slept. The only caveat being when he showered, and then he brought them with him into the bathroom. His reason, "if I need to bug out and run like hell for whatever reason, I'm prepared". Hard to argue with that logic

Good perspective! Way to think outside the product marketing box.