OK... I had everything ready in case the SHTF at home, going to work, at work, out&about... now there's a twist!

As you can tell by my screen name, I'm a dad. This changes your life more than you ever could imagine. It is just dawning on me that my previous plans are woefully lacking! I could use some good tips and tricks for a plan that would include your two year old, one year old, and infant!

With one I could make it work... with two it was a stretch but doable... now with a 3rd... I need to seriously revise my plan. Getting rid of them, bailing on them, or doing anything other than keeping them safe is out Please help me nail down this twist to the plan.

*note added: We live in the earthquake/flood/volcano/rainy/winter snow region (the Pacific Northwest - coastal mountains) This past winter a couple towns were flooded out over night and another was buried under +13 feet of snow, a stretch of towns were nailed with hurricane force winds taking down trees, isolating the towns for over a week at a time - hopefully this will help in figuring out some of the reasons I need to update the plan particular to our location.

From bug-out vehicle to supplies... where do I start? where would you?

OutdoorDad,

Spend 5 or 6 hours searching and reviewing past forum postings. I know it sounds a bit heavy, but there has been tons of stuff posted about vehicles, bags, kits, and equipment in just the few months I have been here.

As a survivor of the early childhood parenting stuff I would make sure you focus on the simple things that can keep your kids clean and warm. Having 2 or 3 dozen cloth diapers and a case of Dreft (or the hypoallergenic, perfume-free detergent of your choice) will do you a ton of good. Or a bzillion disposable diapers can do just as well. We used cloth as much as possible and had far fewer rash and other related infection problems.

I would maybe look into making a "rickshaw" out of a bike trailer. I would help in transporting the kids if you are forced to be afoot.

Just my 2 cents

I think you think about what you need to BUG IN, first. What do you need in case you and your family cannot go anywhere for a month. List it. Think about alternatives for some things when space, cost or weight gets to be too much. Work towards preparing for that.

Next think about bugging out with a vehicle. What do you have available? Where is that going to get your family and with how much? Where could you head to if you needed to bug out? Prep BOBs for everyone one of you, and in case of your kids, adjust your meals and include entertainment. Feed your children some of those things that you would have if you needed to bug and store things that they eat. When my niece was two canned pasta and peaches were two of her favorites, so those thigns should have been in her BOB.

Once you get from using a motor vehicle to using something else, your problems really multiply. But If you have the things you might need if a car were available, when the car is not available, some of your choices have already been made.

I agree there is a wealth of info on this site... once you add little ones to the mix though a lot of things just don't work anymore, which is why my original plans was found lacking.

Instead of the basic truck I am looking more toward a 4x4 van or stock suv (blends easier than a pinzgauer)

OutdoorDad,

You don't say if you live in any of those specific places that suffer floods, volcanoes or excessive snow, but here in the PNW we're all exposed to earthquake and power outages. If you are in a flood zone or volcano zone you need to be prepared to evacuate, but most folks need to be prepared to shelter in place, and for that its simply a matter of multiplying your own needs and accomodating differences in diet and other needs for toddlers. If you're not in a flood or lahar zone, work on stockpiling adequate food, medical, water and warmth (clothing, sleeping bags) sufficient to get your family through at least a week without power (we were 9 days without power in the Dec 2006 blow, and we're only 25 blocks south of Puget Sound Energy HQ). Keeping a tent shelter or two can work out well in the event your house isn't habitable. The local 3 Days 3 Ways is pretty good for this, and can be adapted for just a bit longer before help may arrive.

If you anticipate being on the move, consider that you'll need to keep everyone warm, fed, watered and dry, and besides a vehicle consider a wagon or other wagon like conveyance (Home Depot sells a swell wagon with sides designed for moving stuff around your garden). This is probably the most remote type of preparation you need to make, but you won't go as far or as long carrying as you would pulling your kids along. Most of all though you should have a plan for where to go, and places to stop before you get there. Others may disagree with me here, but if you have to bug out from your home, a likely first destination for a young family with three toddlers is whatever Red Cross shelter can be found - not to stay there indefinitely, but to find a warm bed and communications with the outside world, where you can arrange your next step evacuating yourself from the area.

For kids especially, pack some small toys and animals to keep them busy and somewhat happy in case you are displaced. Double up on their outdoor coats, and pay attention to a good waterproof layer, pants and coat (it rains anytime here). Trust your wife as to number of underwear etc, then double it. Kid snacks as well - my younguns have no interest in my food, they want snack crackery type food.

I would also focus quite a bit on sanitation, both handwashing and keeping fairly clean. Where there are kids there are dirty diapers, which makes for some uncomfortable dining situations unless you are prepared with adequate supplies of hand wash and the rigor to use it. Preparation is a good excuse to get your kids in the habit of washing their hands now, so its not such a struggle when the power blinks off and they don't have the comfort of warm water to wash up with.

Your kids may be too young for school but if they are in daycare ask what their emergency plan is - and if they don't have one, volunteer to organize one. If you are like alot of folks you can be 30 miles from home during the day and would be unable to get to your kids for a day or two following a 9.0 shake. Talk to your neighbors and see if they are interested in shared child care in case you are away or injured. And make sure the daycare has an accurate and up to date list of folks they can release your kids to - if a relative could pick up your kids and get them home that's probably better all around than keeping them at a daycare facility.

Someone said you need to concentrate on bugging in but you can't know which your going to do until the situation happens so you need to be prepared to bug in out bug out.
What is your environment like, what kinds of disasters are likely to happen? House fire can affect anyone, then there is the possibility of flood, hurricane, tornado, power outage in the winter, etc.
Start with basics such as extra food and water.
How old are your kids, do you need extra diapers, baby food, formula, etc. If you pug out can your kids sleep in a normal bed or do you need a portable crib?

for a vehicle an extended or quad cab truck can still haul kids and is a little cheaper than an suv and usually gets better fuel economy and also you have a separated cargo area, that is a safety feature because you can haul fuel without fumes in the cab.

Do you and your wife both work, or is one at home? If you have to evac work and can't get home have a planned meeting place and backup or two.

Anyone that works outside the home should have a get home bag to assist you in getting home should you need to.

you should have go bags packed for each family member with whatever they need to survive should you need to leave.

Odds are bugging in is the most likely option, regardless of whether you're in a flood zone or volcano zone.

If flood conditions force you out take the supplies you have for bugging in, pack the kids into your car and leave.

When's the last time a volcano poured lava in the PNW -- okay, it happens and it was pretty devastating but there was plenty of warning and again, pack your stuff and kids into the car.

Plan for the most likely problems and the most likely situations will probably have you staying home and bugging in.

OutdoorDad,

Wow man you got a full house. Your post brought back a childhood incident of mine.

My parents were devorced, and while visiting Dad, we had a substantial sized tree at both ends of the street he lived on fall over in high winds. These trees were enormous to my 9 year old view of things. Thinking back on it now they were about 4 feet in diamiter. Luckily my Dad's neighbors had a few chainsaws, although it still took several hours for the residents of his street to clear enough tree to allow a car to pass.

The point is do you have:

1) a chain saw
2) an ax
3) a pocket saw (one of the quality ones, not the wire type.)

The ax with the skill to use it or the pocket saw are key items to keep the path to and from the home accessible.

Do other family members live in the area (also are they on speaking terms, or safe around your children?) that you could include in the bug out? I find more people help with multiple kids, as my uncle has 4. Usually best at one adult to a child.

I live in southern California, and have a Grandmother who is 96yrs old. If we get hit with a big quake I am going straight to her residence to check on her.

The bicycle with a homemade trailer that someone else mentioned is a great idea. A guy I work with had one made for himself tohaul his daughter around, while he and mommy ride on a two seater bike. If you get one set upit would do you good to haul the kids around town on errands, by getting you into great shape.

I realizethe bike won't work in sever winter weather, so truck (quadcab)/or jeep eagle (4 by 4 station wagon)/ or suv are good options.

Just afew thoughts.

Joe

Hey Dad

Here's my two cents, based on what you said.

If your in a flood prone area as you stated, have some sort of boat handy, notice I said a boat and not a canoe, a boat will make everyone involved a lot happier.

Quality tools to dig out or cut your way out is a must, chainsaw, oil, fuel, extra chains, chain sharpener, extra bar etc.

Comfort food for the children, a portable DVD with their favorite movies, games, coloring books, pen and paper, favorite toys etc.

Make sure you have extra clothes for them.

If you have to bug out with them,make sure you have something with plenty of room " think Suburban,full size van etc." 4 wheel drive always comes in handy. Nothing worse than having 5 people cramed into to small a space.

Having their own BOB bags goes along way to boost their moral.

If you have to leave you motorized transportation, nothing beats those child trailers and seats for the bikes that hold the smaller ones, some even have cargo space to haul stuff.

I'm sure your already prepared as far as the basics, meds, diapers, thermometer etc.

Power outages, all I can say is Generator and plenty of fuel. Speaking of which, get yourself and inverter too, that way when your on the road and one of the children needs a vaporizer etc, you have power.

Also for power outages an alternate heat source such as a wood burner or kerosene heater comes in handy.

And make sure everything you buy geared towards children is quality items, we all know how hard children can be on things.

Thats all I can think of, hope something I said helps.

Some starting points:

Bugout tactics /strategy – Wildman800
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=116920&fpart=1


Blast’s emergency binder and discussion
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=109152&fpart=1

teaching preparedness to kids:
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=121231&fpart=1

NIM’s long term last resort kit
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post112981

Precisely.

You should preapre to both bug in and bug out, but you begin to plan for bugging in. As you begin to plan for bugging in, most of the things you prepare should be things that can be used both in or out if needed. Once you have bugging in planned, you set aside portions or your stores and gears prepared and accessible for immediate flight.

My preparations are not for a family, onyl a couple. We each have BOBs ready to go, the BOBs ar epart of bugging in, but there are also other stores for bugging in.

Some gear can be useful for both. For example, the shelter in the BOBs may be useful indoors. If you are indoors without heat, setting up a tent-like shelter can allow you to remain warmer just be catching some of your body heat and keeping it in a smaller area. I've awoken in a tent while it snowed, and the tent was warm with our heat.

In my case I have a small pick-up. I store a portion of my bug-in supplies in the truck. Since I'm more catastrophic earthquake oriented, I like to have stuff with me all the time. If I'm home they're bug-in supplies; if I'm on the road or at work it's a 96 hour kit.

The most important element of the bug-out scenario is a place to bug-out to. Anybody can pack a car and leave home; where are you going to go?

All good ideas.

Most of my strategy comes from camping, for several camping trips, I kept a pad of paper on me, and when I needed something, I wrote it down. You could do something similar over a weekend.

When I packed for trips with my kids when they were young, I mainly used to segregate things into "input" and "output" if you know what I mean....

It sounds like you need to go back to the basics and plot your paths from there.

"Bugging In" will always be the preferable, easiest method to handle most disasters whether they are natural or of a manmade origin.

"Bugging Out" will always be an option, as it should be, but it will always be the least practical, hardest, and last resort option for most people.

"The four needs" are: 1) Shelter; 2) Water; 3) Heat/Fire; 4) Food

Make your plans according to these basic rules/planning options and many of the problems that you foresee will become simplified as each step is accomplished, the next step or requirement becomes an easier problem to be solved.

IRT "Bugging In", I plan on handling a nuclear incident and thus I am prepared for anything lesser as well (such as Hurricanes, Industrial accidents, etc). (Plan A)

IRT "Bugging Out", (Plan B) I plan to take with me a certain amount of gear and supplies, leaving the majority for my return after the "All Clear" is sounded. (Plan C) means that I am leaving with no intention of returning, this means more people are involved since there is safety in numbers and most, if not all of our gear and supplies are taken with us.

Plan B means covering a short distance and setting up a temporary residence whereas Plan C covers a long distance and establishing a permanent residence upon arrival.

I have special needs (within the family) that have had to be addressed so I am confident that you can create working plans to fit your situation. Kick back, have some beers while you have some realistic discussions with trusted friends.

Unfortunately, most of the accumulated info on bugging in and out with kids was lost when ETS changed whatever they changed.

Do you live in the flood plain? That's simple to fix: GET OUT. I live near Centralia/Chehalis. We were mostly marooned, but we didn't flood. My worst problem was when the wind blew up the chicken's plastic flap and wet down a good two quarts of layer pellets. And no, I didn't mention that to the people who lost everything. I bought with disaster in mind.

As was said above, your main two issues are bugging in and bugging out, in that order. Bugging out on foot with kids is really not an issue, esp with them the age you have. If things deteriorate to that point, you are in deep trouble.

I would make a list of what you need for each age group now. The chances are excellent that you will need some form of what you've got now. Then think about each facet under no-power, no-heat, no-help conditions.

Start with what is likely to be most important. Not being a mother, my first thoughts are diapers, food, diapers, warmth, diapers, medications, and diapers.

How many diapers do you use per week? Do you use the disposable kind? What do you intend to do when (not if) you run out? I would keep some cloth diapers and a bunch of liners on hand. PNW... rainwater collection to wash them.

Heat is important to small bodies. Be able to shut down the rest of the house and live in one or two rooms to conserve heat. Open house plan? You'd better make plans.

Baby food can be created with adult food and a knife and fork: mince and mash.

Sick baby under disaster conditions? Pedialyte and baby meds. Talk to your pediatrician -- you must be on a first-name basis by now! Tell him/her what your intentions are. Ask if there is such a thing as a breathable hood for babies/children to protect them from ash fall.

Check out the Red Cross sites: http://www.redcross.org/services/disaster/0,1082,0_581_,00.html

Check out your local government disaster sites: Here's one for King County: http://www.metrokc.gov/prepare/

Emergency shelters tend to provide space (not much), cots, food and water. That's it. You're mostly on your own for the rest.

If I read the tanker correctly last week, the railroad was shipping at least one tanker of sodium perchlorate to the NORTH. WTF??? Combine that with a derailment. Or a leaking tank (train, truck, you choose) of chlorine? You'll have to be ready to run immediately. What do you take? Which direction should you go? Got a NOAA radio? Got gas in the car/truck?

Always keep in mind that disasters of any kind tend to strike at the worst possible time: at night, when it's snowing or raining, when there isn't much gas in the car, etc.

Also, type up a Babysitter Handbook. Keep it pinned to the wall near the phone in PLAIN SIGHT, and sit down and go over it with each and every babysitter. I am reminded of a 12-year-old babysitter who smelled smoke but couldn't find the source. She called 911 immediately, then she gathered up the three small children and ran with them across the street to a neighbor where she saw a light on. A short time later, the house was engulfed in fire. Could your babysitters do that well?

Blast's Handbook was mentioned above. It's WONDERFUL!

And check out those smoke alarms designed with children mind. Instead of the whoop-whoop that sleeping children can't hear (a scientific fact), they have Mom's voice recorded: "Get up! Get up! Go out the front door!" over and over.

You can do this! Look, I have my four CHICKENS trained to run into a cat carrier when I call them and toss some grain inside. If I can train a chicken, you can do this!

Sue (still working on the cats...)

Your comments are very true. Our local radio carried a feature about the St Francis Dam collapse, eighty years ago today, which killed around 1000 people - the exact number is unknown. They interviewed a survivor, now in her nineties. The flood began about 1:30 AM. Her parents and brother went out the front door; she exited the back door. She survived, the others did not. Her parents bodies were never found.

I'd never heard of the St. Francis Dam until this thread -- wow. Five days after being filled to capacity for the first time it catastrophically failed. You'd really want a bug-out plan for that type event. But bugging out presumes that you get the word to leave. Best to not live there.

Had another thought.

Bugging out for a family with three small children, esp. for any distance, really requires a vehicle. It also requires you being able to get through traffic, fix anything that might go wrong with the vehicle, etc. Taking to foot or some other mode of transport while enroute is going to be difficult.

All this means that you must be prepared to bug out early. We all should be, but families with children really need to be out early.

This involves preparing the minds of your wife and you to think this way and not much else.

Yep, from the time you get the notice to leave until you're backing out the driveway should be about 10 minutes.

Your wife gets the kids ready while you put the already packed rubbermaid containers in the car. Put the stuff you need from the refrigerator into the prepositioned cooler and put that in the car too. Done.

The car already has at least a half tank because you never let it get below that mark. Back down the driveway and leave -- you didn't forget anything, put that thought out of your head.

I'm fortunate in that the only thing I'd bug-out for is a wildfire. They normally get started well east of us and there's plenty of notice. I repack the truck way early so that if the fire gets into our canyon (it hasn't yet) I can make that 10 minute limit. Otherwise, I could get into the truck right now and leave, but I'd leave a lot of good stuff behind (not necessary for survival stuff, just stuff I have room for in the truck).

What will you be driving if you need to bug-out?

one of the things I've started doing is going to parks and such on the weekends. These are mini bug out tests for me. We get up and see that its nice out so we get dressed and go. I then writ down what we needed and didn't have when while we are out. I keep gear in my truck at all times so we run from it and thats when it gets tested.

I am with Susan, if you are in a zone of lahars, floods, pyroclastic flows, etc., then you don't need an SUV, you need a moving van. Just because builders build in these places (look at the development on the slopes of Mt Ranier) doesn't mean we need to buy them. Darwin time. Volcanic problems don't always have lead times (think Armero, Colombia). There is NO reason today to buy a house in an obvious hazard area of that level. There are always hazards, but the problems like these are avoidable. Even if the chances of these events are low it is unreasonable to choose to live with them. If you are there now, the first expenditure might need to be a new house. While you are at it, avoid rail lines, manufacturing plants, etc.

With this problem solved, most of the time you are problemed with staying in place. A serious problem, but much less than bugging out. Make your plans for staying in place and one for bugging out (it still might happen). As others have indicated, also make plans for not being at home when it happens. With and without the rest of the family.

Respectfully,

Jerry

Having lived in Washington, D.C. through 9/11, anthrax and countless evacuations due to intrusions into our prohibited airspace, friends, colleagues and I have given considerable thought to "sheltering-in" and evacuating. And many of us are steeped in COOP procedures (continuing operations).

The major disaster risks here are related to terrorism, of course. Hurricanes and tornadoes are also plausible.

My primary personal precautions since 9/11, in the event we need and have an opportunity to evacuate, have been: 1) top off my gas tank every Sunday night; 2) have cash-on-hand; 3) food on-hand for a few weeks (dog food, too).

The cash is in a go-box and topping off the tank has been an easy habit to get into.

I've kept extra water jugs on hand since alarms (false, fortunately) over cryptosporidium in the metro water system in the 90s.

Camping is good practice for bugging out. I appreciate how long it takes to pack a car (when not in a panic) and that's when most of the camping gear is pre-packed. And, of course, camping gear could come in handy in such a situation.

Camp gear is also handy for sheltering-in, as I found out one January in the early 90s when this region was suffering a week of temps in the teens, ice storms and rolling blackouts due to the Northeast's power grid being overloaded. My place at the time was all-electric. Loved my new sleeping bag and rechargeable lantern!!

Preparing for an entire family certainly requires a great deal of thought just to plan.