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#125904 - 03/01/08 09:20 PM how to explain to people in drastic situations?
picard120 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 763
How do you explain to some people or women to do drastic things in survival situation to survive?

some women would complain bitterly that it is not a proper lady behavior to it since it might ruin their appearance, dress or hair.

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#125905 - 03/01/08 09:36 PM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations? [Re: picard120]
JIM Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 1032
Loc: The Netherlands
1 tell her what to do. Cut to the point right away.

2 Then you can briefly explain the how&why.

3 Then there's the reaction from the person itself and if nessicairy, you can give additional info/answer questions.
_________________________
''It's time for Plan B...'' ''We have a Plan B?'' ''No, but it's time for one.'' -Stargate SG-1

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#125908 - 03/01/08 10:42 PM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations? [Re: picard120]
Blitz Offline
Gear Junkie
Addict

Registered: 08/23/07
Posts: 535
Loc: MA
Picard120,

I think you have to do it gradually over a long period of time. Don't wait until the last moment.

I've been working on FemBlitz surely but slowly about being prepared and she's coming along. Luckily she loves camping, that's huge. If you can't get her out there then you have an "issue"

If is has to be quick then give them a pair of coveralls (with a good base layer) take away her make up and shave her head. (Emergency only!!)

Oh (if you opt for the latter) make sure she doesn't have access to weapons or poison, and remember to sleep with one eye open.


Blitz

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#125909 - 03/01/08 10:48 PM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations? [Re: picard120]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Hi picard120,

Quote:
How do you explain to some people or women to do drastic things in survival situation to survive?


From THE REASONABLE WOMAN
A Guide to Intellectual Survival
by Wendy McElroy


Quote:
The Rules of Intellectual Etiquette
Everyone has the right to be uninterested.

When you are trapped in an unpleasant or boring conversation, you are well within your rights to state 'I don't care to talk about this (or to you) further'. Make the statement without hostility, as a matter of fact, then simply walk away.

No one has an unconditional claim on your time or on your attention. And the assumption that you should care about every issue and event in the world at all times is a ridiculous one. It leads to the intellectual equivalent of what the media has termed 'compassion fatigue' -- the emotional state of being overwhelmed and short circuited by the demand that you care about every injustice committed on the planet. Don't allow yourself to be intellectually overwhelmed by the unrealistic demand that you find everything and everyone interesting.

Everyone has the right not to understand.

Most of us spend a lot of time trying to avoid uttering the sentence, 'I don't understand what you are saying'. Too often, people see this statement as an admission of ignorance or inadequacy on their own part rather than considering the likelihood that the other person is either not explaining things well or holds a position that makes no sense.

Even if the intellectual ball is being dropped on your side of the discussion, what of it? No one understands everything, and it is folly to pretend you do. There is a vast difference between being confused about a line of argument and being stupid. The fear of appearing stupid frequently underlies our reluctance to admit that we simply don't understand what is being said.

Don't apologize. Just ask whoever is speaking to repeat or to rephrase what's been said. Ask them to clarify what they mean. Most people are more than happy to expound at length in front of an attentive audience.

Everyone has the right to be uninformed.

This point of intellectual etiquette is closely related to, but distinct from, the preceding one. Rather than feeling unable to understand what is being said -- either because the terminology is technical or the arguments are tangled -- you are confronted with an issue you know nothing about.

Again, what of it? No one can know everything. In fact, in a world of information-explosion, there is certain to be vast areas of human knowledge about which you are absolutely ignorant. There will always be books you have not read, and events you have not heard about. The worst thing you can do is to become embarrassed and fake knowledge you don't possess. Instead, exercise the intellectual right to say 'I am not familiar with that. Why don't you explain it to me?'

Everyone has the right to make a mistake.

This is far more than a right. It is an inevitability. You will commit errors and frequently. If this upsets you, then curse human nature. As a human being, you are a fallible creature without the godlike automatic knowledge of what is true and false, right and wrong. Yet many people will argue themselves (and everyone else) into the ground or into absurd intellectual corners rather than admit to the other person, 'you're right. I'm obviously mistaken about that one point.'

There is no shame in admitting 'I made a mistake'. Indeed, there is great strength in being willing to acknowledge your errors and to learn from them. This one trait alone, if developed as a habit, will give you an amazing advantage over most of the people you deal with intellectually.

Everyone has the right to change their mind.

Changing your mind or your stated position on an issue is not a sign of intellectual indecision or weakness. Changing your mind is part of the learning process by which you discover errors and correct them. Yet, like the person who will be reduced to absurdity before admitting a mistake, many of us will never admit to adopting a new position. The more publicly the former position has been stated, the more psychological resistance there is to retracting it.

Yet if someone convinces you on an issue, it is no more than a mark of intellectual honesty and courtesy to say 'You've persuaded me over to your point of view.' After all, what is the alternative? Holding onto an untenable position just because that is what you believed yesterday? This would be childish behavior, like holding your breath until you get your own way. Everyone has the right to say without shame, 'Obviously I am wrong on that point', and not to feel diminished by this act of intellectual honesty.

Everyone has the right to disagree.

Whenever you hear a statement or argument with which you disagree, you have the right to say so. Often we are in situations where our opinion would be unpopular if stated. Perhaps a group of male co-workers are complaining about some unpleasant characteristic women are supposed to embody. Perhaps a family gathering has turned into a discussion of abortion, and you hold the only dissenting opinion.

Your alternatives are wider than either stewing in silence or getting involved in an intellectual brawl. Simply, but firmly state, 'I disagree'. You don't need to justify yourself. You needn't become either hostile or apologetic. Simply state 'I disagree' and walk away. Or stay and argue. The option is yours.

At this point, many people will ask themselves 'why bother? Why cause trouble?' In some cases -- such as the family gathering -- you may reasonably decide that speaking out is not worth the price you might pay for doing so. But showing discretion is different than allowing silence in the face of offensive opinions to become an habit. Such silence is destructive to the most important aspect of your intellectual life: your own self- esteem.

Breaking the silence and saying 'I disagree' is important. If it weren't, most people would not feel such resistance to making this statement.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion.

Everyone has the right to so a weighty a thing as an opinion, and to express it. You don't need a diploma, permission from your spouse, a dispensation from the church...simply by being a human being, you have a right to reach your own conclusions and publicly state them.

It is true: the more you know about a situation, through reading or direct experience, the more likely your opinions are to be correct. But this doesn't mean that you shouldn't reach a conclusion right now based on what you know about the situation. In fact, that is all anyone ever does: form opinions based on their current level of knowledge. After all, as noted above, you also have the right to change your mind if more or better information arises.



It looks like you could be snookered. There are no easy rules for this one. Getting involved in a argument with someone or a group, could just waste enough time to have an impact on your own chances of survival. Oh and if you are abandoning ship for rubber fabric life rafts ask all the women to remove their high heels. wink


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#125911 - 03/01/08 10:48 PM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations [Re: picard120]
Erik_B Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 315
Loc: Somewhere in my own little wor...
Originally Posted By: picard120


some women would complain bitterly that it is not a proper lady behavior to it since it might ruin their appearance, dress or hair.


if it's 20 below and your companion is afraid the brush shelter will ruin their hair, slap them, crawl inside, and close the snowblock door behind you. let em spend the night outside and see how important their perfect curls are.

help natural selection: let the airheads wh dont' want to help themselves continue not doing so as the blizzard buries them.


Edited by Erik_B (03/01/08 10:51 PM)
_________________________
Originally Posted By: scafool
Camping teaches us what things we can live without.


Originally Posted By: ironraven
...Shopping appeals to the soul of the hunter-gatherer.

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#125912 - 03/01/08 10:55 PM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations? [Re: picard120]
frostbite Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 148
Loc: TN
Lay the facts out straight and simple, let them make their own choice and if they can't do it, leave them. They will know what to do if they change their minds and want to follow/join in. If there is a strong woman in the group point the others to her. Also...

A: everyone is in the same situation so we all look alike.
B: we can clean up and primp after its over.
C: both A and B apply to the male dandies out there.:)
D: no matter how well you explain it or how much help you can give some people just can't do it, even with time for reality to sink in.

Just my thoughts but I'm not the kind of woman who spends a lot of time dressing like I belong in a display case.

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#125913 - 03/01/08 10:56 PM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations? [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Blitz Offline
Gear Junkie
Addict

Registered: 08/23/07
Posts: 535
Loc: MA
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Hi picard120,

Quote:
How do you explain to some people or women to do drastic things in survival situation to survive?


From THE REASONABLE WOMAN
A Guide to Intellectual Survival
by Wendy McElroy


Quote:
The Rules of Intellectual Etiquette
Everyone has the right to be uninterested.

When you are trapped in an unpleasant or boring conversation, you are well within your rights to state 'I don't care to talk about this (or to you) further'. Make the statement without hostility, as a matter of fact, then simply walk away.

No one has an unconditional claim on your time or on your attention. And the assumption that you should care about every issue and event in the world at all times is a ridiculous one. It leads to the intellectual equivalent of what the media has termed 'compassion fatigue' -- the emotional state of being overwhelmed and short circuited by the demand that you care about every injustice committed on the planet. Don't allow yourself to be intellectually overwhelmed by the unrealistic demand that you find everything and everyone interesting.

Everyone has the right not to understand.

Most of us spend a lot of time trying to avoid uttering the sentence, 'I don't understand what you are saying'. Too often, people see this statement as an admission of ignorance or inadequacy on their own part rather than considering the likelihood that the other person is either not explaining things well or holds a position that makes no sense.

Even if the intellectual ball is being dropped on your side of the discussion, what of it? No one understands everything, and it is folly to pretend you do. There is a vast difference between being confused about a line of argument and being stupid. The fear of appearing stupid frequently underlies our reluctance to admit that we simply don't understand what is being said.

Don't apologize. Just ask whoever is speaking to repeat or to rephrase what's been said. Ask them to clarify what they mean. Most people are more than happy to expound at length in front of an attentive audience.

Everyone has the right to be uninformed.

This point of intellectual etiquette is closely related to, but distinct from, the preceding one. Rather than feeling unable to understand what is being said -- either because the terminology is technical or the arguments are tangled -- you are confronted with an issue you know nothing about.

Again, what of it? No one can know everything. In fact, in a world of information-explosion, there is certain to be vast areas of human knowledge about which you are absolutely ignorant. There will always be books you have not read, and events you have not heard about. The worst thing you can do is to become embarrassed and fake knowledge you don't possess. Instead, exercise the intellectual right to say 'I am not familiar with that. Why don't you explain it to me?'

Everyone has the right to make a mistake.

This is far more than a right. It is an inevitability. You will commit errors and frequently. If this upsets you, then curse human nature. As a human being, you are a fallible creature without the godlike automatic knowledge of what is true and false, right and wrong. Yet many people will argue themselves (and everyone else) into the ground or into absurd intellectual corners rather than admit to the other person, 'you're right. I'm obviously mistaken about that one point.'

There is no shame in admitting 'I made a mistake'. Indeed, there is great strength in being willing to acknowledge your errors and to learn from them. This one trait alone, if developed as a habit, will give you an amazing advantage over most of the people you deal with intellectually.

Everyone has the right to change their mind.

Changing your mind or your stated position on an issue is not a sign of intellectual indecision or weakness. Changing your mind is part of the learning process by which you discover errors and correct them. Yet, like the person who will be reduced to absurdity before admitting a mistake, many of us will never admit to adopting a new position. The more publicly the former position has been stated, the more psychological resistance there is to retracting it.

Yet if someone convinces you on an issue, it is no more than a mark of intellectual honesty and courtesy to say 'You've persuaded me over to your point of view.' After all, what is the alternative? Holding onto an untenable position just because that is what you believed yesterday? This would be childish behavior, like holding your breath until you get your own way. Everyone has the right to say without shame, 'Obviously I am wrong on that point', and not to feel diminished by this act of intellectual honesty.

Everyone has the right to disagree.

Whenever you hear a statement or argument with which you disagree, you have the right to say so. Often we are in situations where our opinion would be unpopular if stated. Perhaps a group of male co-workers are complaining about some unpleasant characteristic women are supposed to embody. Perhaps a family gathering has turned into a discussion of abortion, and you hold the only dissenting opinion.

Your alternatives are wider than either stewing in silence or getting involved in an intellectual brawl. Simply, but firmly state, 'I disagree'. You don't need to justify yourself. You needn't become either hostile or apologetic. Simply state 'I disagree' and walk away. Or stay and argue. The option is yours.

At this point, many people will ask themselves 'why bother? Why cause trouble?' In some cases -- such as the family gathering -- you may reasonably decide that speaking out is not worth the price you might pay for doing so. But showing discretion is different than allowing silence in the face of offensive opinions to become an habit. Such silence is destructive to the most important aspect of your intellectual life: your own self- esteem.

Breaking the silence and saying 'I disagree' is important. If it weren't, most people would not feel such resistance to making this statement.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion.

Everyone has the right to so a weighty a thing as an opinion, and to express it. You don't need a diploma, permission from your spouse, a dispensation from the church...simply by being a human being, you have a right to reach your own conclusions and publicly state them.

It is true: the more you know about a situation, through reading or direct experience, the more likely your opinions are to be correct. But this doesn't mean that you shouldn't reach a conclusion right now based on what you know about the situation. In fact, that is all anyone ever does: form opinions based on their current level of knowledge. After all, as noted above, you also have the right to change your mind if more or better information arises.



It looks like you could be snookered. There are no easy rules for this one. Getting involved in a argument with someone or a group, could just waste enough time to have an impact on your own chances of survival. Oh and if you are abandoning ship for rubber fabric life rafts ask all the women to remove their high heels. wink



What this tells me is that it is a no win situation. Is that a joke or do some people really think like that?

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#125916 - 03/01/08 11:06 PM I want Christina's or Sue's opinion on this. [Re: picard120]
Blitz Offline
Gear Junkie
Addict

Registered: 08/23/07
Posts: 535
Loc: MA
Ladies?

Blitz


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#125918 - 03/01/08 11:17 PM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations? [Re: picard120]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
Quite frankly, I don't "explain".

I will give a quick briefing of the situation based on the information that is known & I'll state my intentions. Then I'll state that I'm going to implement my plan and anyone who wishes, may come along.

Leadership is the key and if the more senior persons don't step up to the plate, then I will!
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#125925 - 03/01/08 11:55 PM Re: how to explain to people in drastic situations? [Re: wildman800]
MoBOB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here
Jim and wildman800 have it...Tell'em!! When there is the possibility of group panic or group inaction someone just needs to make the decision.

If you are refering to just having a casual conversation about survival around a cup'o'Joe at the local coffee joint I'd drop the subject and move on to pixie dust, fairies, unicorns, ponies and rainbows.
_________________________
"Its not a matter of being ready as it is being prepared" -- B. E. J. Taylor

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