I have a rapter stove for civi use. I use a peak 1 at work as well as the coleman 2 burner stoves and lamps. other than that for small scale we use yukon stoves when it gets really cold. everything else that cooks or requires heat is a static setup which requires a generator. the peak 1 is given to us as a section stove to be used by a group of people at small level. the individual troop gets esbit type tabs which are used in the canteen cup cooker. some troops carry a peak 1 camping/hiking out side of army life etc because they are so used to using one at work. tarus for example. plus he can get free parts so I guess there is an upside. I hate the dammed stove due to its size for humping around and switched to the raptor. as a sup or replacement to esbit tabs I was looking at those pepsi can style stoves that I could make myself. this would sup both my civi and army gear in places where even the raptor may be too much to carry.

someone here must have used these a lot. my question is.

are they better than esbit tabs for the same ammount of weight? how long do they burn using a full tank of fuel? does the alcohol burn as long as an esbit? How bright is the flame from the stove from a tactical point of view? does it give off a terrible stench and muck up the bottom of the canteen cup like the tabs do. etc etc

I was considering putting a small pepsi can stove in my TAC gear to replace the esbit tabs and maybe one in my hiking gear for summer use but I am undecided which will be better.

anyone have feed back? Thanks

I hop back and forth between various small alcohol stoves and Esbit tabs for hiking. To be honest, there is not much difference weight-wise on anything but the longest trips.

I use one Esbit tab (.5 oz) to boil two cups of water, and about .4 oz of alcohol to do the same. So, if you cook twice a day and are out for 80 days (and measure more carefully than me) you'll save a pound! Each has it's advantages, assuming other factors are the same (lidded pot, windscreen, etc.)

Smell: alcohol wins. Every kind has additives, but none of it smells as bad as Esbit.

Mess: alcohol wins again. Some small sticky spots occasionally, but nothing like the mess Esbit makes.

Storage: Esbit wins. I leave it in my kit all the time without worrying about leaking, evaporation, or ignition.

Ease of use: tie. Esbit tabs are a pain to light, and alcohol stoves need measuring and pouring and priming. With just a bit of practice it all becomes second nature. Alcohol does create less trash to carry.

Adaptability for cooking: alcohol wins. If a recipe needs more than 2 cups, I can adjust a bit. It won't boil quarts of water at a time, though. The burn time for .4 oz. is about the same as an Esbit tab, but doubling that does not give you double the time. It's longer, yes, but you also get BIG flame blasting up alongside the pot (and weird looks from fellow campers) which blows your efficiency. They are optimized for the 2 cup burn, but 3 is within reach.

Other uses: Esbit wins. It's a fantastic fire-starter.

Brightness: alcohol is not bright at all. In fact the flame is invisible in daylight. Wave your hand well above the stove to see if it's lit.

I've used the Photon style of Pepsi-can stove for years because I know Photon. He measures the hyphen in anal-retentive, so I know that he's done everything possible to make the best possible stove, including trying to get it to blow up (without success). They are also fun to make. Recently I've been unfaithful with the White Box Stove (use Ebay), which really works well and saves weight due to no need for a pot support.

This is alky stove central: http://zenstoves.net/Stoves.htm


Hope this helps.


Jaywalke

I tried making a Pepsi can stove and a Red bull can stove. It's supposed to be easy but I got too frustrated and bought a Vargo Titanium for $30. Pretty much the same design internally. To each his own...I'm lazy and live 4 blocks from a Mountain Equipment Coop

I've done controlled comparisons in my kitchen and found the Vargo filled as recommended is very comparable to a single Military Esbit tab. The only main difference seems to be burn time between stoves and tablets with slight differences in efficiency between brands from what I've seen.

My personal observations can be summed up as follows:

Esbit:

• Great ratio of space and weight to energy produced.
• Fairly easy to light but you need to know the tricks
• Smell like fish
• Leave residue on your pots and cooker
• Technically can be blown out and reused even if messy to do so.
• Easy to pop in an extra tab if one isn't enough.

Alcohol Stove (Vargo in my case):

• Can use gas line antifreeze or Everclear as fuel in a pinch
• Very efficient fuel wise
• Low BTU output but comparable to Hexamine IMO
• Burns clean with no residue, soot, etc.
• Burns quiet
• Flame is not bright and barely gives off a bit of blue at night.
• Easy to spill when filling (fuel is toxic and shouldn't get on your skin ideally)

I've posted about my Vargo many times on this site and commented on posts made by others. I took the liberty of digging up my ramblings (plus a few extras) and linking the posts. You might especially be interested in the comparison I did between the Vargo stove and a Hexamine tablet. It was an inferior brand compared to the military style ones I use these days but still an interesting comparison if I do say so myself

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=113624&fpart=1
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=116245&fpart=1
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=108713&fpart=1
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.ph...=true#Post89264
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.ph...=true#Post55481
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.ph...=true#Post45089

If you search 'Vargo' or 'Stove' or even 'pepsi can' you'll find tons of posts on this forum on just about every stove there is. You might want to search out Blasts post about the woodgas stove he built...pretty cool stuff.

I tried a Vargo and didn't like it. The fact that the container is not sealed around the edges makes it noticably less efficient. The sealed edges on the Photon (or other pressurized stoves design) forces the alcohol vapor out the jets under high pressure. It really roars once it's primed, and the Vargo just whimpered for me.

A filled Vargo is also 1oz or more of alcohol, so it's doing less with more.

If you want to make a Photon stove, a Dremel tool with a .022 or .025 inch bit (15 cents at a hobby shop) makes all the difference between "That was easy," and a desire to stomp the can flat.

I'll give you that. A pressurized design is hotter and more efficient than the open jet style of the Vargo. Each style of alcohol stove has their pros and cons. The Vargo doesn't need a priming pan like the photon stove does for example.

On a side note I just realized that the cup in my Crusader stove would be an ideal priming pan...maybe I should buy a similar stove and give it a try?

I just realized that the Vargo IS a pressurized jet type stove according to zenstoves.net

I've been considering the alcohol thing myself. Go to www.minibulldesigns.com and look at his stoves. "Tinny" has some pretty cool stuff. His prices look reasonable. I am in no affiliated personally or professionally with the aforementioned enterprise.

A little JB weld around the outside seam would make it moreso! If you tried it, you also might want to consider the penny trick: put a penny over the center fill hole. It ups the pressure more, but will flip out of the way if it gets too high.

I'm not sure what you mean by the outside seam. My Vargo is sealed except for the jet holes and the fill hole.

The Penny seems like a great trick though.

I just did some Googling and I think the older models were 2 piece where the newer ones are one piece...unless the older ones are one piece . Either way mine is definitely one piece.

Thanks for all the info, now I am getting somewhere.

I tried some searches but the computer at work doesent wish to co-op with my efforts.

The problem we are facing is that the Army is begining to shy away from issuing the canteen cup and thus the esbit tabs to be replaced by the hydration packs. I still will carry some means to boil water. even a small tin cup and some means to boil water. the issued camel baks are ultra nice but there is no way in hell I can boil coffee in one. when I wake up after spending another night in a stupid trench during another training exercise and have no way to make coffee it may be a matter of someone elses survival. thats why I want to explore the possibility of a small pop can stove. I will take my chances with the rancid water but I will come un-glued if I dont get a coffee.

hacksaw. you mentioned you tested military tabs. waht kind? are they the same as what we get issued I wonder? the issued ones are a little flat and often need to be doubled up but they are free I guess.

I was also wondering about how durable that vargo stove is. I dont think the pop can will stand up to being carried in a TAC but the vargo looks a little tougher. Blasts stove looks top shelf for the bottom of a cold trench when light disipline is at a lower level but a bit large to carry.

They're Canadian military surplus.

I haven't torture tested the stove but it's made of Titanium and when I was prying the legs off of it with a pair of pliers and the can opener off my Swiss Army Knife, it didn't flex or complain once...I'd be willing to guess I could stand on it with little to no ill effects. Filing the burrs off with an axe file was quite a challenge too...Titanium is tough stuff! The bottom is slightly domed outwards as well which would add quite a bit of strength.

An unmodified one can be flipped upside down to use as a Esbit tab stove (the legs and the pot stand are identical top and bottom). Officially Vargo doesn't support that use but I've heard it works well. I haven't tried because I have the canteen stove and don't want to muck up my Vargo too much if I don't have to.

Hi bigmothertrucker,

I personally would forget about alcohol stoves because of the weight penalty on longer periods out in the wilderness/bush. For anything over a 4-5 days, alcohol stoves become quite inefficient due to the specific energy properties of the alcohol fuel. The same situation applies to Esbit or hexamine fuel stoves. They are excellent for 1-2 days though.

Roger Caffin's analysis of the most efficient stove which gives the best performance for the lightest weight over a 5 day period is the gas cartridge stove.

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Efficiency.htm

If boiling water rather than actual cooking takes priority then the Jetboil stove is pretty difficult to beat.

http://www.sailgb.com/p/jetboil_camping_stove/

Although MSR Reactor stove may have the edge on the Jetboil

These stoves use flux ring heat exchanger technology and claim to boil up to 50-60% more water for each gas cartridge used.

http://www.msrgear.com/stoves/reactor.asp

the ones in the green bag? didnt know they sold them anywhere.
then again I could probably get all my not for sale to civilians gear off of ebay should I ever loose it.
I am a fool. I didnt notice the vargo is titanium. It must be worth the 30 bucks for sure. I may get one to test as I am sure it will be better than making a pop can just to have it squish in my gear.

heres another stupid question. will it burn all types of alcohol or just the de-whatever ed type?.

also. where the hell do I get one?

I have a Trangia alcohol stove and an Esbit stove. I have used the Esbit stove for years, but have just recently bought the Trangia stove so I am not to familiar with it right now. The little I have played with it it seems it will do fine. I have used and made a couple of the pepsi can stoves over the years too, And like every one else between the Esbit and pepsi can stove it's a toss up and just depends on what you want to carry. Both have their pros and cons. The only thing I would suggest is go to one of the links above and no matter which stove you choose make one or two of the pepsi can stoves, if nothing else you can always flip it over and use Esbit tabs with it.

I have purchased several of Tinny's stoves and have been very happy with all of them. I currently use a Trekker 2 which uses a primer pan and a Trekker 3 which uses a fiberglass wick wrapped around the stove to prime, so no primer pan needed, but have ordered an Isofly for my birthday coming up since it performs much better in cold weather than the pressurized stoves.

Customer service has been great and product is a good value. If you wonder, check out his Youtube videos posted under the user name Minibulldesign. He has over 100 videos on lots of topics, but specifically his stoves.

I bought mine at the MEC. I know for a fact that the Edmonton MEC has one in stock right now unless they've sold it in the past few days...doubtful. I believe they're $29

Generally these types of stoves will burn several different types of fuels commonly available. zenstoves.net has a crazy detailed list of fuels and their pros and cons. I use Methyl Hydrate because I can buy it at the MEC just down the street.

http://zenstoves.net/Stoves.htm

If you decide to go with a canister stove, MEC has a good selection of those too. I picked up my Optimus Crux there for (I think) $42 but they have other options in that price range.

cool thanx.
I have a raptor and it dont get much smaller than that. problem is the dammed canister. I am really looking for something that can fit into a TAC pouch or even a fishing vest to heat a cup of coffee but not really to cook with. good for long patrols or non tactical ex where the boost given by a hot drink is worth its weight in gold. I read your review on IMPs and you will notice that a few of the items need hot water. usually you can just pour the water in from a small cup but we rarly have the time for even that. the MRE heaters will do to warm the rats to an acceptable level but I have eaten the frozen during a tac situ. your ham steak in mustard sauce is less of a thrill to eat that way but you wont actually die from it. if I dont have a hot coffee I will die. Or I will wish I did die.

I really like coffee.


price is not a big deal to me. If I like it I will buy it. thats why I edc a 500 dollar folder.

I will make do with what I have but given the choice I prefer to survive in style.

Intersting site with some good information. It's too bad he seems to have a bias against what he refers to as the 'fabled' Pepsi can stoves...he doesn't seem to like the 'American' way of hiking either.

In his own 5 day chart, the Hexamine and Alcohol stoves are overall the two lightest options but in his conclusion he claims the cannister stove is the lightest over 5 days...I don't get that. He also makes a lot of assumptions...he uses the word assume or assuming, etc. at least 12 times hehehe. I'd rather see experimental proof than 'based on years of experience'. But I can understand how hard that would be. My personal reviews on this site are based on experience too so I guess I can't fault him too much.

He does make good points about the 'dead weight' of the empty cannisters however. This is a popular myth. I don't mind the weight so much as the shape makes it harder to pack in my backpack compared to the nice slender Trangia bottle

I just tried the penny...didn't make any difference. Boiled 2 cups in about 9 minutes and total burn was 17 minutes (kitchen cook top test). The flames seemed more stable than without the penny but I've had longer total burn times. I did it twice just to see and it took about a 1/2oz. of fuel (by weight) to boil 2 cups of tap water and needed 1oz (by weight) to fill with enough extra fluid to prime in cold but not super freezing weather.

Hacksaw Most of the commercial alcohol stoves I have looked at have large holes on the burner. If the holes are to large or their are to many of them then the stove can't build pressure, maybe thats the problem.

I don't have time to read all of the responses so far, so I hope that this is not a repeat.

For military use I would not even think about a Pepsi can type stove, only because they are made out of thin aluminum, and can easily be bent out of shape and stop working as designed. I would get one of the Swedish brass ones, or a commercial alcohol stove made out of tougher materials...

LOL. Can post 3301 times but can't read one thread...too funny.

Ray: I'm perfectly pleased with my Vargo.

I might make or buy one of those Heineken cups and the cozy to try with it. Should bring my winter boil times down having an insulated cup with a cozy.

Hi bigmothertrucker,

This is my setup for a lightweight cooking system (the batteries are just for size reference) Total weight for Cooking Pot with lid, Stove, Gas canister (enough for 3 days use) and folding Spork is 450 grams or 1lb. The mesh storage bag isn't shown.

TRUCKER--when it comes to survival gear i always suggest
avoiding any kind of home made gear--pop can stoves in this
case..Trangia makes several kinds of burner-potholder
combos..the stoves are time tested and can be carryed
fueled and ready to go and resealed if any fuel is left.
i would try and find the larger military Esbit stoves for
no other reason than they can still be used without the
fuel tabs..these stoves were prized by German Troops in WW2
because they could cook--read..heat coffee water..using any
burnable items at hand--straw..paper..having a dry surface
to light even a small fire on and a pot holder for a canteen
cup or old ration can was better than a fancy Primus type
stove with no fuel--

Not "can't," just didn't have the time right then. Being on an aircard in a marginal cell area makes for really poor internet service sometimes...

Why pick?

Depending on how you made your pepsi stove, you can flip it over, add a little bit of screening, and use it with esbit tabs. Esbit works better in cold or wet weather. But neither one really works well if you want to boil water or do real cooking- they are really just for heating stuff, IMHO.