A lot of equipment depends on batteries.

There are lithium cells that store well, are light, have more capacity and perform particularly well in the cold. They are good for critical uses. Down side is they are are expensive. Too expensive for routine use in high demand and non-critical devices.

You can also get into rechargeable batteries but these have serious limitations. NiCd, nickel cadmium, batteries self-discharge rapidly. which means you can't tuck them away and expect to have a charged cell to work with. If you store them you have to store them in a charger or spend time charging them for use. NiNH, nickel metal hydride, cells are better but they still self-discharge and they are more expensive than the NiCds.

Li-ion, lithium ion, batteries are good. They hold a charge, don't appreciably self-discharge, are light, have high capacity for their size and they perform fairly well in the cold. Down side is they are expensive and unavailable in many of the most common sizes. And, possibly worse of all, they essentially self-destruct after about three years. Even if they aren't used.

On the other hand alkaline cells are available just about anywhere for cheap in most common sizes. In terms of power output for money spent, ability to hold power when stored, dependability, graceful acceptance of wear, and generally acceptable performance they are the go-to batteries of choice.

But not all alkaline batteries are equal.

I have had no-name, off-brand alkaline cells that were essentially discharged when brand new. After a few minutes use they were completely gone. Even though they were years before their use-by date. The lesson I learned was to avoid off-brand cells.

The other brand of alkaline cells I am leery of is Rayovac. They last and store well enough. But of all major brands they are, by far, the most likely to leak. I sometimes still buy them but I have to take care to check them twice as often as any other major brand. I try to take extra care to replace them as soon as they get weak and making doubly sure that at the first sign of bulging, discoloration or other sign of impending leakage they get replaced.

Energizer alkaline are pretty much mid-grade. Good but nothing special.

Duracells are my preferred major brand. They seem to last a little longer in storage and in use. I can't remember them ever leaking even when foolishly kept in a device completely discharged.

The surprise bargain is Sears Die-Hard brand alkaline cells. I have been told they were made by Duracell but that was years ago so that may have changed. The bottom line on these is that I have always gotten average or better performance at a good 40% discount when I buy them in bulk packs.

What brands of alkaline cells have you had good or bad experiences with? Which brands do you trust? which ones have let your down? Have you noticed any brands that destroy your equipment?

Maybe you don't agree with my estimation of the available rechargeable batteries or lithiums and use them all the time. How is that working out for you?

Panasonic recently released their "evolta" alkaline cell:

http://www.ecofriend.org/entry/panasonic-s-evolta-world-s-longest-lasting-alkaline-battery/

Of course, the claims are substantial, but because this is a new product it will be a while before anecdotal evidence proves or disproves the manufacturer's claims.

I haven't seen any yet (and I am currently in Japan) but I'm keeping an eye out for them.

Cheers,

A

Hi Art_in_FL

Rechargeable Alkalines might be the way to go for long storage life combined with moderate drain intermitant use such as in radios, remote controls, GPS devices etc. If long storage life is important then the new rechargeable Alkalines have similar characteristics as normal single use Alkalines. For higher drain use such as flashlights and cameras etc then the Eneloop, Infinium NiMh are excellent, having a storage life greater than 12 months losing only 20% of the initial charge.

http://www.pureenergybattery.com/technology2.html

http://www.budgetbatteries.co.uk/20956/charger-rechargeable-alkaline-with-4-x-aa-xl-ram-batteries-aa-aaa/?utm_source=shopsubmit&$$tid=WDfiSn0C1VvUDHbOXe6CrXJe0FH1Favw8KJHWS0soR9THnNRt4mh1JcqQWnf_Qiq&=

Whole heartedly agree with the Duracells as the brand to go with. I like them better than Energizer alkalines and Titaniums. I buy them in larger packs of 16/24 and feed them to my GPSr and camera. (Also they make great geocache swag!)

I also use rechargeable NiMH for my equipment but only get about half the life as the Duracells. Lithiums AA are nice in certain types of high current draw equipment. For example, I used a pair in my beard trimmer and they lasted almost a full year compared to Energizer alkalines (1 month). However because of the higher initial voltage and discharge rate of the lithiums, some equipment manufacturers recommend not to use them. Lithiums have exceptional shelf life and work much better in the cold than other batteries but cost considerably more.

traditionally NiMH have self discharged worse than Nicad and some of the newer NiMH self discharge quite fast (2500mAh for exmaple)
There are however a new style of NiMH that are low self discharge. Sanyo Eneloop, RayOVac Hybrid, etc are some of the names. Those discharge 1-2% per month instead of the 1-2% per day like a normal NiMH.



They don't self destruct, they loose approx 20% of their capacity per year so in about three years there capacity is low enough they are considered worn out. They have a good power to weight ration but with them not having much of a standard size and wearing out in a short time I defiantly don't consider them good, I avoid them where I can.



Funny the only cells I've had leak are rayovac also.

I've standardized on Sanyo Eneloop, the low self discharge holds true, when I pull my gear out and test it I find the run time is as good with eneloop as it is with alkaline.

I wasted a lot of $ over the years on rechargeable alkaline, they don not hold up well long term.

Low Self Discharge NiMH are the best I've used so far.

that pureenegry link where they compare is quite bad. for example, for memory (it should be memory effect) Nicad should be some, Nimh should be almost none. NiMH full discharge life should be >500. Then then forgot about the low self discharge NiMH which have all the corrections I noted above as well as a shelf life of a couple years and ready to use out of the package.

The other part of the re-chargeable battery picture is the charger.
The chargers you get at radio shack, walmart, best buy, home depot, etc are all crap. Spend a couple extra $ on a MAHA or LaCross and your batteries will reward you. I was able to rejuvenate some 1999 vintage NiMH that I use in kid toys now after I thought they were worn out due to poor quality chargers. So I'm running near 10 years on those batteries and the only reason they are not used in my gear is I've replaced them with the low self discharge.
I've standardized on Sanyo Eneloop and have been running them for over a year now and I get run time equal or better than Alkaline even after they have been sitting for months.

For alkaline cells, I prefer Duracell.

NiMH rechargeables have fairly recently made great strides in reducing self-discharge. Low self-discharge (LSD) NiMH cells in AA and AAA have been out for a while, but only very recently have they come out in C and D sizes. Sanyo Eneloops are the most popular and arguably the best brand of LSD NiMH out there. For those who have been disappointed with NiMH in certain equipment might want to give LSD NiMH a chance. You may be pleasantly surprised at how much better they work than the older generation of NiMH.

NiCd still has its place, too. They can tolerate quick charging and high discharge rates well. They can take a lot of abuse like being overcharged in dumb chargers which will fry NiMH cells. And they are still the only rechargeable cells that flashlights rated for hazardous environments are certified for, that I am aware of.

For straight, non-rechargable, alkalines, Duracell and Kirkland (Costco brand)...

I consider, Silverfox's "Alkaline Battery Shoot Out" (includes AA and AAA lithium cells) the definitive word on alkaline battery performance. He also did one on NiMh , Li-ion , 123A cells and battery chargers.

Personally, I try to use lithium cells wherever possible. There are ways to make this more affordable.

1) Order the batteries online. You can get a much better deal through the Internet than in brick and mortar stores, esp. for 123A cells.
2) Some devices are more efficient than others. In a flashlight, get an LED light with multi output levels. The new LEDs are getting really impressive in terms of efficiency and it is amazing how much a multi-output light will save.

Next, when it comes to re-chargeable devices, I try to get ones that use lithium-ion batteries (read NewBie's "Li-Ion protection technology and possible dangers"!).

In fact, my EDC flashlight pretty much uses all the tricks listed above. It has four primary output modes .3 lumen, 10 lumens, 30 lumens and 85 lumens. It has an 18650 lithium-ion battery pack as my primary carry, with a 2x123A battery pack as my spare.

I do keep alkaline cells, but only for things that are not compatible with lithium batteries, or for things (as you point out) that get used quickly.

-john

Another vote here for the Sanyo "eneloop" low-discharge NiMH rechargeable batteries. Costco has been selling a pack with 8xAA, 4xAAA, C & D dummy cells, and a charger for about $25.

I've been really impressed with them and have been using them in my GPS and an old PDA with great results. Battery life seems to go on forever.

http://www.eneloopusa.com/

The downside? Now there are a lot of the Costco brand AA alkaline cells sitting on my shelf gathering dust.

I buy the cheapest Alkaline's I can find in bulk like the Kirkland. A big batch lasts a long time because I primarily use NiMH rechargables and save the Alkalines for backups. I just started using the Rayovac Hybrids to replace some of my older Energizers and so far they're the best and cheapest NiMH batteries I've used.

My experiences appear to be different than some others. I have had many Duracells that were dead out of the package (even though well within the expiration date). Other Duracells died a very premature death after very little use. And I've had Energizers leak. Several of them.

After experiencing these headaches I went over to Candle Power Forums (the flashlight place) and researched alkaline battery choices. At that time many people were recommending the Rayovacs. That's the only brand I've been buying since (for many years now). Never had one leak, never had one go dead prematurely. And they're a lot cheaper than Duracells or Energizers.

Based on my experiences, I would recommend Rayovacs over Duracells or Energizers any day. Just the exact opposite of what some others have said here. Weird.

I use duracell and sometimes kirkland.
FYI It seems that the kirkland battery's are fractionaly larger in diameter when used in a minimag light, always had trouble removing the AA's from my minimag so I stopped using kirkland in them.

Duracell coppertop and Rayovac alkaline. I guess it also depends on what you need. Most of my lights don't use much juice so just about any alkaline works okay. For high draw or cold weather its usually lithium primaries.

Duracell .......ill back up there rechargeables! They really hold up well.


I do use rayovac for some cheap run of the mill purposes. I havent ever had leaks, but im not using them long term nor for critical usage purposes.

I'll give my top choices

-duracell rechargeable....for the price and availability (can pick them up most places), i like them.
-energizer.........i use the lithiums
-general batteries i prefer duracells, -never had issues with them and as goofy as it may sound, I HATE THE BUNNY COMMERCIALS
-rayovac-great for kids toys (cheap$)

Duracell procell is the only alkaline battery i use now and have never had one leak or doa.

for just about everything i have ditched alkaline batteries and use eneloops or instant nimh rechargables.

Rather than focus on what type of Battery.

I like to focus on what Type Of Equipment.

For Example the Arc Flashlight was designed to maximize battery life, especially dead or very poor quality ones.

Here is a movie of a dead battery that only comes on for a half a second in a regular flashlight, but is plenty bright in the arc.




http://www.arcflashlight.com/media/Arcvsmag.wmv













.

With all due respect the thread is about batteries. I would like to keep it that way.

I have to note the difference between good equipment performance and outright equipment failure is often the batteries used. Over the years I have lost several hundred dollars worth of equipment to battery leakage.

A leaking battery might fell your Arc. So beware of trying to make due with drained batteries that are much more prone to leaking. Even if they will power your light you may end up destroying it at the same time. You might kit your $25 light while attempting to save $.50 on a fresh battery. You could end up a penny wise and a pound foolish.

If you wish to discuss equipment, outside of the types and brands of batteries used, your more than welcome to start your own thread.

Thats why I've become very picky about batteries and chargers, I want mine to last a long time just in case I do have to rely on them for one reason or another.

Art

All Alkalines leak, that is one of their faults. If leakage is a concern spend the extra money for lithium or stick with the duracells you are already using. In the rare event that the duracell do start leaking, duracell stands behind their product and will pay for your damaged equipment. I know this from experience. I believe Energerizer reimburses as well.

I did not mean to insult you about discussing equipment. I just thought other members would enjoy the benefits of the arc, because of its ability to take advantage of poor quality or dead batteries and is coated with chemkote to protect itself from corrosion of a leaking battery.

Rayovac's have come up several times in this thread with some reviling them and others recommending them. It is interesting to note that in the testing done by SilverFox (that JohnN pointed out) the Rayovac Max did very well and the Rayovac Heavy Duty, uhm, sucked. I believe the Max is alkaline and the Heavy Duty is not.

I've used Rayovac Max, Energizer and Duracell alkaline batteries without any issues but I prefer Duracell. In lithiums AA's I use Energizer's (as if I had a choice) and in 123s I use Duracell's and SureFire's.

Here is a chart of different battery runtimes in a ARC AAA flashlight. All runtimes are to 50% brightness.

A long time ago, back in my model airplane days, I did some research. At the time Duracell was much better thought of than anything else in terms of both capacity and reliability. I'm glad to see this is still the case, because I continue to buy exclusively Duracell without question.

I've been burned multiple times by rayovac so they have lost my business for good. I bought the renewals when they first came out in the early 90's while I was in college the store I worked for had some really good coupons. I learned to not let them discharge very far and got a couple good years of use from them. Then the charger died so I had to buy another charger. Then a set leaked and ruined a flashlight. Then the new charger died.
Then I started on NiMH in the late 90's and early 2000's. The last renewal charger I had bought would charge both so I was using I for some of my nimh as well until it died. Then I bought a new rayovac nimh charger but the renewal chargers were non existant so I had to toss a whole bunch of renewals and replace them with nimh. Then my nimh started lasting less and less and we were getting frustrated that the digicam would shut down after just a few pictures. I quit using re-chargeables completely and was buying lithium for the hungry digicam.
I then started researching and found out my nice $30 rayovac charger didn't completely charge the batteries so having a fresh off the charger battery that only had 70%-80% capacity. So I bought a decent charger and was able to get all the old batteries working and lasting their normal time.
Then I started buying bulk packs of Alkaline for my gear and as backups. The bulk packs of rayovac were a good price but I started getting leaky batteries right in the pack that were 6 months old as I would buy a new pack and rotate every 6 months.
During this time I also started hearing about low self discharge nimh so I wanted to try them. Sanyo Eneloop was one of them but wasn't out in stores yet and rayovac hybrid was another. I started looking for those and it turned out they had an exclusive deal with walmart for the first year so to buy them I'd have to shop at a terrible store. I ended up waiting for eneloops to come into the stores and they were cheaper than the rayovacs at one store anyway. So I'd stopped buying rayovac and the bulk packs of energizer or duracell Alkalines havent leaked yet and my NiMH are still lasting like they should so I sold the crappy rayovac charger on ebay.
I'll give a company the benefit of the dought, every company makes a bad product every once and a while or comes out with a stupid policy but when they repeatedly have issues they hit my don't deal with list. So rayovac made it there along with AOL, Yahoo, Time Warner, Nextel, Spitzer Dodge, Fram, Apple, etc.

Thanks for the chart. Since the ARC AAA has gone through many changes over time, what era ARC is this?

Everyone should note that batteries perform differently under different loads. So a battery that does really well with low drain applications may not do well for a high drain application. This is why the 'shootout' graphs are run at different amperages.

Also, regulated lights like the ARC try to maintain their output even while the battery output runs down. The algorithm used will impact the output curve. That is to say, even with similar drains, if the lights use a different algorithm, your performance may differ. And regardless, these output curves will differ from a non-regulated device of similar output.

For example, lithium lights tend to do well in high draw applications. They also tend to have a flatter discharge curve. So with a non-regulated light with a higher output level, the lithium cells will blow away any alkaline. But a good regulated light can make the difference less pronounced.

-john

The graph was for the Arc AAA-P with the nichia CS led.

The new DS LED have slightly better runtime and I have not seen anything on the GS version.

here is a chart comparing a DS LED ARC vs CS LED ARC using a ray o vac battery

Art

just to clarify I do not use cheap batteries, I spend the extra money for lithium for the benefits you just stated and others. Maybe if you spent a few dollars you would have not lost a few hundred dollars worth of equipment to battery leakage.

However, If I am in a pinch and I need to use a dead battery or a subpar brand I know the ARC will perform for me when needed and is durable enough to handle most battery leakage that would destroy other types of flashlights. But in the event that it does get destroyed. The ARC has a lifetime replacement warranty.
These are some of the reasons why I said type of equipment is sometimes more important than battery used.

Funny I don't come here much and today I find this thread. I just got about 1,000 mixed AA and 880 nib nimh AA's, for free .

There is a place in my district that recycles all one use cameras. They have trailer loads of batts they send off to a recycler. They are around 85-90 % charged.

They give batts to use firefighters for free. I have used these batts for years, must be dozens of brands, while i never really "tested" them I never really noticed to much differance.

Don't know why they had nib nimh , but they had a few skids of them .

Thats nice to get them for free.
The NIB NiMH may have been old stock, since (non LSD) NiMH self discharge so fast they can actually kill themselves sitting on shelves for too long. Someone may have just stocked too many and let them sit for too long and had to write them off.
I'd buy a good charger like the MAHA C9000 (I just noticed it on sale at Thomas Distributing when I ordered some more eneloops so I e-mailed them to see if I can add one to my order as I've been waiting for a good price for a while) or Lacross that can test the batteries to see how good they are then you can group them together.

I just charged some ,I'll see how they work . They were in plain unmarked boxes , bulk packed if you will. They have Kodaks name on them. We are the home of Kodak , and this place breaks down their one use cameras,so I fugure they sent them these to get rid of for some reason also.

One guy at work has a 15 minute charger with a fan, mine is an over night one.