I am giving a 1hr. presentation to the local boy scout group on survival, lightweight backpacking and knots. I thought I'd re-read all that is in the ETS main site and several books in my survival library, but I would appreciate any input any of you could give on this.

TX, Tim H./9fingers, Edmonds, WA

Tim,

A fun site for knots, some animated is Folsom knots

Another fishing knot site

These can be fun in addition to useful.

As far as the presentation goes I may use part of the time or follow up time to present a group excercise to see what the scouts thought would be needed--equipment wise and knowledge wise in a backpacking scenario where they may need to stay out longer than planned due to weather or some other unexpected cause. What skills learned prior to the trip would be good to practice, what basic equipment would be useful and what reactions to different events would be required to "survive" or thrive.

Interaction with the scouts would be my attempt to spark the interest and keep the discussion and thoughts going beyond the 1 hour presentation.

Good Luck, I am sure some of the Scout Masters will have loads of assistance for you.

Randy

I am always struck by how slavishly people on wilderness trips will adhere to a schedule, even when nature conspires to mess their plans up. This often leads to unwise decisions "because we just had to get back for the first day of classes," etc. This is just not so if you are looking a suicidal stream crossing, or something similar. You adjust by breaking out your food reserves (or by following Presumed Lost strategy) and enjoying a somewhat longer trip. A lot of folks have gotten into trouble by insisting on pressing on, regardless of conditions.

Spend a fair amount of time on first aid, and most particularly, encourage the kind of thinking that will allow the Scouts to improvise things like splints from the items they are carrying with them.

Congratulations to you for doing this. I t is much less spectacular to prevent incidents than to respond to them, but prevention is a much better strategy.

Tim,

Eh, 1 hour would be about right for knots... anyway, given the agenda I suggest starting with lightweight bakpacking, moving into a brief forray on survival, and tying things up with knots. (OK, I got that out of my system now...).

Really, too much material for one hour. Here's one suggestion on an approach:

The prefered method for Scouts is summarized by "Tell, show, do". The "do" part is difficult with the first two topics and made to order with the knots. If you select knots that have utility in lightweight backpacking and survival, it gives you a useful way to wrap it all up. Here are the "basic" knots that BSA requires Scouts to know before they are adjudged full-fledged Scouts (1st Class), with page references in the 11th Edition of the Boy Scout Handbook:

Scout: square knot (page 8)

Tenderfoot: whip a rope end (page 34); fuse a rope end (page 34); two half-hitches (page 35-36); taut-line hitch (page 35-37)

Second Class: none

First Class: timber hitch (page 137-138); clove hitch (page 137-139); square, shear, and diagonal lashings (page 142-144); bowline (page 149) NOTE: pages 146-148 have lashing varients tripod, round, and floor. Page 150 has sheet bend, described as "...a close relative of the bowline..."

I'm not thrilled with the above, but there they are. Boys are all over the place with regard to learning and remembering knots. For climbing activities, BSA requires the spectrum of knots that are currently in vogue with the North American climbing community, but usually only some of the older boys really ever learn any of those.

So either show uses of the above knots in your two other topical areas or toss in some additional knots that are useful for those topics. If you have helpers at a ratio of 1 per 2-3 boys, 5 minutes per knot will do. If you are the sole teacher, figure 10-15 minutes per knot (yep, not a typo - 15), even for something like a double sheet bend - there will be 10% that are slow and drag it out. Some of the boys will be able to help others, even with new material, so ask the Scoutmaster to group them that way.

No suggestions on the lightweight backpacking except to let them touch, feel, heft the gear.

On the survival, my suggestion is to POUND this into their heads: "Be Prepared!" First point: whenever venturing from home, wear/carry clothing appropriate for the conditions that might be encountered. Second point: Outdoor Essentials. (see page 207 - 210 and extend from there). Refer them to pages 40-41 (STOP, etc.) Show them a PSK, just for kicks.

Back to knots - there are so many to choose from... see the thread here - the list is endless. I'd shoot for about 3 good knots they don't know and prepare a handout on a 3x5 card for each knot consisting of a step-by-step diagram and a small example of the finished knot hot-glued to the card.

Boy, are you going to be busy for an hour! Have fun and make sure the boys get to actually do something fun that they'll learn from.

Tom

PS - If this is a regular Troop meeting, you're not really going to have an hour unless they instantly turn the whole meeting over to you immediately after the opening. More like 45 minutes... verify the time for sure with the Scoutmaster.

Will this be held in a room or the outdoors? It would be good theater to turn off the lights and ( amid the giggles and rib punches) have everyone produce a flashlight or you light a small campfire or stove. You can tie this into staying put,making a signal or comforting fire for the older boys. I suffered a horrible phobia about swimming pools and barely passed Coast Guard swimming. Years later at the same base I wound up helping a boy overcome the same fear. The pool had been drained for repair and maintenance. We spent a hour having lunch in the deep end and just talking about "stuff". I turned him over to our instructors a few days later. Kids are a tough audience. Keep it fun and slip the knowledge in when they aren't looking <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Chris, this will be held in a room and I think the lights out is a great idea! I believe this talk may just be an intro into a whole bunch of other material.

Excellent comments by ya-all! I'd be glad to buy a couple of pitchers of beer or half-gallons of "round" ice cream, (two things very close to my heart- don't you know) for you, if I could figure out a way. As it is you will have to be satisfied buy my virtual "well done".

But any way we could have a beer or ice cream icon?

Tim H. :-)

One thing i would say is keep it simple-bring lots of props (rucksacks, knives ropes, psk etc.) don't rammble on, GET TO THE POINT (as a boy scout a few years ago one thing that was very boring was how some guys rammbled on about SH*T sorry but that was the case also be animate make them laugh have a bit of fun, get people out to the front!
KEEP them busy!

k my thoughts

Mark

Tim,

You'll have quite a challenge doing a meaningful presentation on all of those topics in one hour! Ask one of the troop leaders the distribution of ages & ranks in your audience. That may help to determine how detailed or general to make the treatment. If you're not already a scout leader, you may find it helpful to access the troop's library or nearby scout shop to get a copy of the handbook, & posssibly even a merit badge booklet on Wilderness Survival. Those will also help you decide the level of detail. You may also want to determine why you were the one invited to cover those areas. The topics are broad. You may find you do not need actually to cover all of that ground in one hour. Also determine if the "hour" is really about 3/4 of 1 hour or 1 1/2 hours. Meetings vary in length. Be sure to practice the presentation to debug it. What seems like a really great 1-hour presentation would probably not go over well if really requires 2-3 hours to deliver. Keep in mind how limited the kids' span of attention will tend to be. Also, many of the kids may not be as interested in the topics as we might wish. Be sure to work in audience participation. Visual aids, models, and samples are helpful.

Incidentally if it is any consolation, you should have to do the talk on US Constitutional rights & obligations in 30 minutes. That's typically what I get. Oh, well, hopefully some of it sticks.

Good luck,

John

I agree that too many topics for a 1 hr presentation. Knots can easily take more than an hour just to teach a few. I would save that for a seperate presentation. A PSK would be one way to introduce survival and light weight backpacking as a similar topic if you feel you need to present both.

For lightweight backpacking, you might arrange for someone in the troop to bring their normal backpacked for an overnight. You bring along your lightweight pack packed for an overnight. Allow several boys to try on the two packs and feel the difference.

Break open the packs and begin showing them some of the tips and techniques you have used to reduce weight. Here is a standard metal mess kit with pans, pots, cups, etc. Here is the single cup and spoon for lightweight. Pass around the two items so they can compare.

Ask Questions! Get them involved. Lecturing to them will not hold their attention. Ask for their ideas on ways to save weight. Be prepared to show examples of ways to save weight (above). I remember when preparing for Philmont, they suggested cutting half the handle off my toothbrush to save weight. That stuck with my sister and she still talks about it 25 years later.

Tarps vs Tents. Bivy sacks vs tent/sleeping bag, Dehydrated vs Canned, Purificaiton systems vs carrying water. Lots of examples that are hands on, easy to see, touch, immediately recognize a payback in weight and that they can use next time out.

Also recommend reviewing the merit badge and rank requirements so you can steer your presentation towards the BOYS goals. Both are available on line for review. It would be great if you could actually be able to check off a requirement for a merit badge or rank as part of your presentation. That way you add immediate value to your customers.

For backpacking light try:
www.backpackinglight.com

For knots try:
www.netknots.com/html/outdoor_knots.html
www.realknots.com/knots/index.htm