Despite my fear that our government might be overly interested in someone who has a bit of chemistry background wondering about homemade chemicals, I think this is a fair question and concern for this forum.

I am, of course, talking about replacing many of our routinely consumed chemicals for modern living in a LTS situation. I'm looking to collect a set of recipes for these things in one place. Most primitive living skills type documentation doesn't even scratch the surface.

I know some fairly basic stuff like creating lye and soap, and maybe a few other things that would be useful. Here are a few things I'm thinking would run out quickly in such a situation, and this could include problems presented such as a Katrina-style disaster where supplies are impossible to find. I'm not going to include actual food/water needs. In no particular order:

1) Soap
2) Gunpowder
3) Toothpaste
4) Deodorant/antiperspirant
5) Leavening agents (not a sourdough yeast mother - chemical only)
6) Bleach/Chlorine
7) Cleansers
8) Lubricants
9) Simple Medicines
10) Fertilizer

I'm curious if anyone has found a guidebook that gives recipes for backyard generation of these things using common or easily attained materials, I'd love to hear of it. I'm also curious what you would add to this list. Although I know of recipes for explosives, and that they could be very useful (clearing boulders and trees for farmland) - I'd like to keep that out of the conversation. If you want to discuss anything of that nature, PM is more appropriate and should keep this from moving into any questionable territory. Gunpowder is probably controversial enough. :-)

If you have recipes that require any raw resources, please identify how you could obtain them or refine them as appropriate. Maybe even discussions of where/how to obtain any raw product is just as key as the recipes.

Looking forward to the insights...

Massacre,

I'm swamped right now but this is right up my alley. I'll write more in a few days but for now start tracking down old cookbooks, encylopedias, and "household tips" books from places like project guttenberg on-line libraries.

Most of your list is really easy to do.

-Blast

1) Soap
Lye from wood ashes, combined with animal fats or glycerin derived from animal bones and connective tissues. The fats get you a stronger general use soap. Glycerin gets you a milder soap. Herbal sources of plant surfactants can serve as a mild soap and can be used to make the soap more pleasant. Some forms of fine clays work well as a cleaning agent effectively carrying away excess body oils and grease.

2) Gunpowder
Potassium nitrate extracted from urine.

3) Toothpaste
Fine clay, salt, fine ground sawdust, a small amount of glycerin based homemade soap

4) Deodorant/antiperspirant
Epsom salts if available make an effective deodorant.

5) Leavening agents (not a sourdough yeast mother - chemical only)I think you provide your own answer.

6) Bleach/Chlorine
Lye can be used for some bleaching.

7) Cleansers
Fine sand, clay and sawdust can be used alone or with soaps. Also both vinegar and alcohol have uses.

8) Lubricants
Animal and plant based grease and oils can serve. If you in a location where mineral oils are available you could rig a small refinery to fraction off the crude.

9) Simple Medicines
Other than chemical purgatives your pretty much limited to herbal medicines. Chloral hydrate should be practical give a dedicated effort in chemistry. Given the chemicals I list ether and chloroform might be possible.

10) Fertilizer
Compost pile.

I don't think raw chemicals are generally cost, time-effort, effective goals there are a few that are easy and possible.

Alcohol.
Ferment in an anaerobic environment and distill.

Acetic acid, vinegar.
Ferment in an aerobic environment.

Casein.
Extracted from milk. Gives you a base for paints, glues and a simple form of plastic.

Tannins.
From oaks. Water extract from acorn processing, galls for concentrated tannins, and bark.

Potassium nitrate.
Extract from urine. Can be processed to get you nitric acid.

Methane, HS.
From a digester. Methane for fuel needs the HS extracted by running through iron filings which gets you Iron Sulfate which is the base for an effective ink when combined with tannins from oak gall. HS processed through water gets you sulphuric acid.

Given some way of producing electricity, solar, wind and hydro power sound good, your ability to extract and process chemicals opens up. As with all things as you get deeper into it it gets easier. Your ability to create one thing leads to many more options. Helped along by the fact that your not actually discovering or inventing anything.

Look up industrial processes from 1700s to early 1900s. Also a good source for formulas is:
"Henley's Twentieth Century Formulas and Trade Secrets"

I think some of the things you might want would need to be created through the use of some substitute.

Soap is one of the simpler things to make, but there are also natural substitutes, some plants, that can be sued for cleansing.

As far as creating a leavening agent, you would be remiss to not have a yeast starter. It not only is a leavening agent, but it also create alcohol, which if you could distill would give you a good santizer and possibly some fuel. In both cases, it would be expensive, unless you could get some modern commercial equipment, but without the yeast, it's never going to happen.

Fertilizers are also easy, compost. Plants can require generally three types of fertilizers, nitrogen, phosphates and potash. In order, composted green matter, composted bone meal, and ash. Composting green matter is easy, and making a pile of the weeds you pull, lawn clippings, raked leaves, etc, and jsut letting it rot will do. Bone meal, I've not tried, but I believe it can be done by making sure the bones are dried, nothing but bone, grinding them into as small parts as possible, then letting nature digest the rest. Potash, burn some hardwood, use the ashes. Some reading on organic gardening might offer a lot of information this stuff.

Heya Blast... I thought you might pop up on this thread. :-)

I have *some* info, but I admit I've never taken the time to actually piece it all together. I'll try to take all of this and perhaps put it into a workable document for consumption (and my own use of course).

Excellent information Art! That's a great start and I'll add in your ideas - hopefully I can find that book.

Again, good information. I guess I was assuming alcohol would be top of most people's list and Yeast is certainly something you would want to "create". I was thinking of chemical leavening, but maybe that's not necessary. And I should have included Alcohol on the list as it is a disinfectant, fuel, etc.

I don't think I'm going to sue any plants ;-) but yes a nice horticultural setup seems to be an important part of LTS - heirloom seeds, medicinal plants such as aloe, hardwood timber, and of course fruits and veggies all seem important. Substitution is fine and in fact, I'm keen on identifying safe substitutes to any products. Recipes are important because it's very easy to hurt yourself processing some of these things. And in a true SHTF TEOTWAWKI situation, getting non-renewable raw resources is going to be very difficult depending on your locale and ability to salvage.

I know in my area that I can find some coal and of course there's plenty of farmland and timber. Others may have ready access to salt and other mined materials, so even identifying where/how to find those seem like valuable information. Maybe even basic metallurgical skills such as smelting and forging should be included on this?

Lots of things would be better to lay in a reserve supply then to make them. I can go over to one of the Dollar stores and buy 4-bars of Ivory soap for $1.00. $30.00 or $40.00 will buy me a lifetime supply of soap.

It’s nice to know how to make things, but keep it in perspective as to time, materials, books and chemical cost to make something when you can buy it already made for next to nothing.

Here's just the book you need. I've got it around the house somewhere but can't find the box it's in. Found an on-line scan of the original 1872 book, free for download, no copyright. If you have decent broadband, go for the 85 MB PDF, otherwise the text file is smaller. Here's the cover plus TOC. Fascinating reading.

While I will readily agree that laying in a supply is an important and valuable exercise, it's not foolproof. Supplies can be stolen, destroyed, or washed away.

In a truly LTS situation, I would argue that knowledge is more valuable than a one-person lifetime supply. It can provide trade items, you can pass it along to help your family, friends and community without having to transport or give up your own supplies. It can replenish supplies that weren't stored up for a lifetime. I've got a lot of stuff stashed, but I know I don't have a lifetime supply of soap and toothpaste or really anything else. Certainly not enough for a family's consumption.

Skills like weaving, canning, carpentry, smithing, farming, hunting, identification of wild plants, &tc. are all very important should society collapse. Or should you find yourself stranded away from your supplies in some remote area. You can travel with knowledge, but it's a lot tougher carrying $40 worth of soap. ;-)

Already downloading! Looks pretty interesting as does the site.

I like the book. I need to download and print out some copies, and stash them.

I'm with the idea of learning how to make things, especially using the older methods of production. Soap and toothpaste would be nice things to be able to make, if we face TEOTWAKI. Armed with such knowledge, I could see one making such materials in bulk and trading them for other necessities and comforts.

I hope never to face such a situation that requires me to heat my home with wood, harvest my food and find a way to make my own clothes. However if TSHF, I think the first generation survivors will be in large part scavengers. No need to make a new knife by mining and smelting ore, when I can grab a piece of scrap and grind it into a serviceable blade. No need to learn how to weave when I can scavenge carpet from office buildings.

Rome was not built in a day, nor did it fall in a day. It did not suddenly change from a thriving civilization into a lost one with the sacking by the Vandals. No, it had a long slow decline. Same with the Maya. No reason to expect that our civilization will be any different. The knowledge you save will ultimately benefit the generatiosn that follow those who see TEOWAKI.

So that means things will be relatively unchanged for most people in the U.S., who seem to know nothing about these topics shortly after having finished hgih school?

My wife might cringe if she knew I read this suggestion, because the idea appeals to me. I collect books like CANOEDOGS collects cups, like Benjammin collects dutch ovens, like Blast collects cat scratches, etc. What's a few thousand more?

Maybe not a fair situational comparison, but this statement is not unlike the gear vs. skills philosophy most here subscribe to, namely the more skills/knowledge, the less gear required.

You stock up on books. I'll volunteer to make more babies so you can teach them math.

There going to have a long walk if they are coming to my school.

But, I'll also volunteer to try to assist you on making more babies. I'll do what I can.

True, and I did say that having laid aside provisions is rather important. In fact, to survive many situations, I'd say it's critical to have those supplies. But for the most part shelter, food, water, rudimentary sanitation and medical attention are what's neeeded in an immediate survival sitaution. As we move into LTS and "household supplies" dwindle, it's important. And like I said, in an EOTW situation even if you have a full lifetime family-sized supply with extra emergency stashes in various areas, you could use your knowledge and skill to produce yet MORE of those for consumption and trade. I'm thinking anyone with medical skills and access to medicine and anyone who has food and fuel surpluses will be the focus of those trades.

I think it's fair to say it's a sort of parallel to the gear vs. skill philosophy, but as I think many here would agree, the more gear you have the easier it is to make a go of things, but the more skill you have, the longer you can get along without that gear. :-)

In an EOTW situation having too much would make you a target for the have nots.

This isn't the place for a zombie reference but World War Z has several stories in it which makes one realize that not everybody is going to hold hands, fart campfire songs together, and wait for rainbows while the world falls apart...wow that's cynical even for me.

I'm not one of those people who thinks the end is nigh but if something like that happens, I'm expecting a lot of people to sink to an all time low in the wake...and I don't consider myself prepared for it either. There's so many moving parts and what-ifs. I like the gear vs knowledge parallel. If things get crazy and one of those million things that can happen, does, the only thing I can trust to always be with me is knowledge...and I don't even trust that because I carry a pocket version of the SAS survival handbook ALL THE TIME.

"we must not allow a mineshaft gap!"

Dr. Strangelove

I'm marginally prepared for a disaster, but not a prolonged one or a complete EOTW scenario. I'd love to tinker with some of this stuff as it's interesting to me and who knows, maybe I'll start selling EOTW Soap at the local craft fair.

If modern society breaks down these will become niceties as wars over water, food, and energy kill off a lot of the ones who survived the incident. Humans lived for years without much of this, but they also lived in what we would call comparable squalor.

Oh, and I have my zombie shotgun ready to roll! ;-)

For soap, you need animal fats, glycerin or some of the few plants that produce a soap-like substance. Where do you intend to get the animal fat?

Toothpaste is unnecessary... it's the toothbrush that does the work. Stock up on them. Or figure out how to make them.

Deodorant: straight baking soda, dry. It's amazing how well it works unless you're dripping sweat. Cheap, too.

Leavening agents: baking soda and baking powder. Keep them dry. Rumsford Baking Powder is, (I believe) the only one made without aluminum, and it comes in a sealed metal can. Sourdough yeast starter is easy to make if you need it.

Five Basic Cleaners that clean everything: White distilled vinegar, Lemon juice, Baking soda, Washing Soda, & Borax.

Have your soil tested and get it up to par. It costs about $8 for a test, ask your local Cooperative Extension Service who does it. If your soil is lacking minerals, major or trace, fix it now. Many parts of the U.S. are low in certain very necessary minerals. Here in the Pacific Northwest, the heavy rainfall leaches away calcium and magnesium. There's more to good soil than Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium. It also needs Calcium, Magnesium, Boron, Copper, Selenium, Iron and trace minerals. If you want good nutrition from food, the foods have to have it available to them.

Getting a good herbalist book and starting a few herbs could be a good idea for meds.

Sue

Actually, the saponification of animal fats to make soap releases glycerin as a side product.

-Blast

Well....

You all have really got me thinking now!

While waiting to finish the download of the book I am typing this. I thought the Fox Fire series had some good do-it-yourself type stuff, such as making a type of foot powred woodlathe, while not high tech or even on the same scale of acuracy as a modern percision woodlathe it did serve to make spokes for whagon wheels.


Joe

Blast ... you've been waiting how many years to use that word in a sentence? Thanks for increasing my vocab +1 today!

He's been watching a lot of Fight Club lately. And he's broken the first and second rules. Plus, Blast knows the fun that comes from that byproduct. ;-)

It is nice to contemplate being a deep woods alchemist and manufacturing all sorts of useful products from scratch. There is a certain pride you can get from making your own and coaxing beneficial compounds from raw materials you collected yourself.

But the simple fact is that $4 gets you a 1000 count bottle of generic aspirin. Weeks of dedicated hard work would get you a tenth as much and half as effective.

Bathtub chemistry is labor, material and equipment intensive, time consuming and often hazardous. In a survival situation time, materials and energy are often in short supply so it is often better to just plan ahead and stock up on what you need.

I'm not discouraging anyone from having a go at making your own or being a backyard chemist but you have to keep it in context of what your hoping to gain and how much it costs you.

Agreed Art. In most contexts that any of us would likely encounter, stocking up and keeping a few stashes here and there (cars, planes, boats, &tc.) is the best route. I do stock up on soap and meds like ibuprofen and the like.

Again, even the likelyhood of needing those is probably faint for most of us at least for very long. I think there's certainly satisfaction to be had by doing some of this yourself, and I was mainly trying to stick to easy/simple items that have a low cost/benefit ratio.

But I'll stand by my comment about supplies being vulnerable to loss, theft, or damage. The only way I lose the knowledge to replace them (should the incredibly slim chance arise) is if I lose my marbles. :-)

Even if it's a bit of a one in a million type affair, it's good information to have - maybe even beneficial in today's world where dog food is laced with poison and even every day items get recalled. Maybe in the not too distant future it will be safer making your own soap...

But I'll agree with you - for the most part other than trying out a few things, I'll be loading up on the basics. I don't think that means it's pointless to learn this stuff.

If you have a coal seam near you, you may have native sulfur available. I'm not familiar with the coal seams in Illinois, but the coal on the East coast is high in sulfur and while the coal in Wyoming and Utah is much lower in sulfur. Sulfur is necessary for producing gunpowder (along with hardwood charcoal and potassium nitrate which are both easy to make at home). On the list of books to own, a good book on the local geology should be on the list since it can tell you what types of mineralogical raw materials are readily available. Knowledge of the local geology will also help you understand your risk for floods and other disasters and the soil you have for growing crops along with much more practical knowledge.

Yep, there's a rather large seam of coal and it's one of the reasons that the rail came through here. It's Illinois Coal, so I'm pretty sure it's high in sulfur. The only question is if there's actually sulfur veins in it or if it's embedded in the coal which makes it all the more difficult to extract without pulverizing, etc. Still, it's better than nothing when you aren't near a volcano or other pure source.