Hi mtnlvr68,



It all depends on the conditions and the type of environment that you would expect to be dealing with. A goretex bivy sack is going to give more protection than a plastic garbage bag. The difference in protection might be the difference between life and death. This has happened before in the Scottish Cairngorm mountains when two climbers were caught out overnight in a winter blizzard. The one with the goretex bivy sack survived (less a few fingers and toes), the one with the orange survival polybag didn't. The Snowpeak Ti cups are superb, they are tough, lightweight and very reliable pieces of kit, the tin foil cup type isn't especially in medium, longer time survival situations. The 123v flashlight will outperform a photon micro (better endurance and greater light output) and or a chemlite for only minimal weight disadvantage (a few grams more). The difference in light output and light endurance could be the difference in being spotted by SAR or not. I don't think they are luxury items just higher performance items which can help improve the odds in a survival outcome.

i think what Chris is saying is that we should not confuse
survival with escape and evading as practiced in the military.
we also confuse survival with ultra-light camping which may
have some things in common but they are not the same..

I agree with Am_Fear_Liath_Mor.

Again, this involves the unknowable. If you come to find yourself in a true survival crisis, will it be one with modestly inclement weather or extremely inclement weather? Will it last for a night or for a week? Will you be severely injured or in perfect health? Etc. In some cases, you just can't know.

(By the way, I think it is unwise to think of minimalist-but-reliable gear as a luxury [versus severely compromised, unreliable, extreme-short-term gear as a necessity], as in your example of the titanium cup versus tin foil.)

Nothing is needed - until it's needed.

Well, I would think a person could come up with some idea of what would be most likely needed in a survival situation, even before they actually enter into one. The usual suspects come to mind, like keeping warm and dry, or cool and dry, depending on the location and time of year, having something more effective than your voice and/or hand waving to signal possible rescuers with, drinking water would be kinda handy, and maybe something to niblle on once in a while. There are myriad other considerations, but these become more esoteric to the individual, their situation, and what they are willing to put up with.

There's a balance between two different axioms (cliches):

It is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Chance favors the prepared mind.(not to be confused with the prepared kit)

Somewhere in between there is the nirvana we all ought to be striving towards.

The only point I was trying to make is that if weight is a concern there are things that can be done to reduce the SIZE and WEIGHT of your pack/kit. Does it compromise the quality and endurance of the gear? you are right Absolutely! Thus one has to rely more on his skill/abilities vs. gear. IE. I know myself and know if I was in a bad spot with cold fingers I would end up tearing foil while trying to purify water over a fire. Therefore I carry the ti cup.

Personally, I feel that the recommendations of this site adhere to both principals.

There are multiple recommendations of what kinds of items should go in a type of kit for your home, automobile, workplace, etc. that only take into account the item’s effectiveness and durability (not weight) simply because they are meant for a kit that should not be mobile.

Then, there are also recommendations of what you should be putting in your OtterBox/Altoids tin/whatever that take into account both weight and effectiveness. These are the “personal survival kits” or “pocket survival kits” that you can find strewn about the whole forum, and they are extremely effective minimalist kits.

A person who is truly prepared probably will not be debating which type of kit is actually better, since by design they are meant for different things. You have to keep the big picture in mind. The overweight automobile kit is meant for if your automobile breaks down in the middle of nowhere. The overweight home kit is meant for natural disasters that affect your ability to live in or leave your home. These kits are not meant to be mobile, but can be pared down to become mobile kits. The EDC “pocket survival kit” is meant for those times when you do not have another kit on your back to rely on.

JCWohlschlag, Exactely!
The original post was in the context of "day hike". Most of my beyond the beaten path adventures are in the context of hunting/scouting so I can well relate to the keeping it light point of view.
I'm sorry you are not going to carry around 40-50 lbs of "gear" on your back and get much day hiking or hunting in. I'ts just not nessesary. We are not talking about "packing in" for 7 days, or bugging out for an unspecifed amount of time. The context is day hike. The plan is to go back to the car/truck (where you should find more provisions), and then go home. I guess I just base my set up on getting lost or stranded for a night or two at the most. With the mindset being "I am not going to die TONIGHT from exposer"
I just can't justify carrying around 3 days worth of food and water, tent, sleeping bags, etc. for a day hike. (thats not survivng anyway, thats called "camping", we do that for fun in these parts) I will just have to make a couple snikers and a camelbak last for a while.

In a discussion of gear/weight, I’m reminded that when I was a (much) younger man and a little less wise, I might have been mistaken for a small pack mule, since my philosophy was “if I own it, I carry it” (those were also the misguided days of “the bigger the knife, the better”).

Fortunately, with age came wisdom. These days I’m guided by the old adage, “the right tool for the job.” I have a core kit that’s carried no matter what; beyond that, it’s supplemented based on circumstances: my physical condition, length and terrain of the outing, solo or accompanied, time of year, weather etc. Last week’s moderate 10-mile dayhike in the hills, my pack was ~12 lbs. including water.



Related, but often given less attention — at least by me — the selection of the pack in which we carry all this “stuff.” I’ve made my share of trips with a simple rucksack; still do sometimes. But these days a well-designed, comfortable pack that carries the load well — whether daypack or larger — has helped offset the limitations that come with age, and allows me to comfortably carry a reasonable amount of gear.

As for dayhikes specifically … I don’t carry “everything including the kitchen sink” nor do I think anything more than an Altoids tin is excess baggage. But I never forget that stuff happens — even on a dayhike — no matter my skills and experience. Broken leg or other injury, fall into a ravine, lost, surprise snowstorm, mano a mano with a bear . How many hunters/dayhikers have struck out for the day with little more than a knife, matches and water … and lived to regret it (or not). There’s a reason why SAR is a thriving industry.

Commonsense is a good bit of gear — and it weighs nothing.

xbanker,

Good post. Alot of wisdom there for those listening.
I have to echo the idea of a "core kit" that is supplemented, or tailored to the outing. Good stuff, exactely my own system.

One other point on "what" is being carried. A good deal of the bulk in my kit can be contributed to the Idea of "staying found"
IE: GPS, Compasses, Maps, Whistle, Extra Batteries. I could loose almost a pound of a 5 pound core kit, on these items alone. But that would not be a bright move, since they greatly promote avoiding a "survival situation", in the first place.