Anyone have a source for a fire piston?

Darrel Aune makes some superb pistons. He has an ebay store.

http://stores.ebay.com/Fire-Pistons-R-Us

Jeff Wagner at Wilderness Solutions also offers quality pistons.

http://www.wildersol.com/



This image has one piston from Jeff and 2 from Darrel. Fun firemaking.

Aren't fire-pistons usually made by yourself?

Hard to justify $75.00 for one of these, you can buy a lot of Bic lighters for that price.

I would say firepistons are rarely made by yourself....at least good ones. I have read many reports of fellows attempting to make one and it is not a trivial task.

As to worth the money...a BIC is a useful industrial cheap tool to make a fire but a piston is an artful way to make a fire. Well worth the money for a finely crafted unique device.

Not one person is ever going to oggle a handful of BIC's....I have yet to find a person who it not interested in a firepiston.

I first saw a fire piston used on Les Shroud’s show, I loved it. I looked them up on the net and came to the conclusion that they would indeed be difficult to make. I have enough other projects that I’m working on to try to make one of these right now.

I like neat toys as much as the next guy, but I also want practical things. And to me a Bic is it.

But you are right it would be a cool thing to play with & people would like it.

I still want one, but they are too expensive for what they do. The ones I’ve seen on the net are like works of art, they are beautifully made. I’m sure the guys making them have a lot of time into making them. You are not only paying for a (very cool) way to make fire, you are paying for the craftsmanship of the item.

Exactly Bob...that is exactly it.

There is another fellow on ebay who makes a brass tube lined wooden block piston that is much less expensive and also quite efficient. A friend of mine has an article on it, but the magazine site is down right now.

The Aune pistons are works of art. I got mine for around $40 on ebay and it is worth at least twice that. My Wagner piston cost quite a bit more, but it too is awfully nice. The top of it has a tinder cavity.

Darrel Aune has a DVD on how to make a piston...just watching it convinced me that buying one was the cheap way to go.

Also there is quite a bit of information about firepistons and other less common methods of firemaking at Paleoplanet. The Firemaking forum has several threads on pistons. "Cutshurt" is Darrel Aune over there.

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/

Darrel has a long thread over there about making a piston should anyone want to give it a go too.

I think firepistons are really fun tools but for me are more of a display firemaker than a first line tool. There are definately some advantages to the coal you can get from a piston on a windy day though...however tinder prep and type and overall fire prep are really important compared to the more direct (crude) matches and lighter methods.

I can promise anyone though that if you do a firepiston fire demo your audience will be very attentive....it is like magic to get the coal and blow it up into flame.

the fire piston I purchased on ebay is made from clear acrylic with an aluminum piston. $44.00 from crater12. it worked on the first try. after seeing les use one, i had to try it for myself. from the information i could find on fire pistons. it said that as nice as the ones made from wood are , that they can form cracks due to age and drying out. i would have like to get a wooden one just because how nice they look and the workmanship involved in making them . but I wanted to keep the piston in my pack and use it often and not have to worry about damage due to moisture ,heat, cold.

its a very old form of making fire.IMHO ,you can never know to many ways of making fire. this is just another skill to learn and practice . And it's pretty darn fun to show off

Schwert,

Please respond to all topics as long as you include your photographs, they are simply outstanding! Colors, arrangements, lighting, composition, everything is flawless. From an all too frustrated photographer (have used everything from 4x5 view camers to the latest megapixel digitals) I make pictures, you create art. Wow.

Thanks for sharing.

Thanks Andy...that is very kind.

Sometimes an image just works...it is awfully nice to have some nice toys to shoot.

Jeez, see what I mean? (muttering something under my breath about those darn people who make it look easy...)

You are welcome!

A quality firepiston really is quite an amazing device...



This is the neat storage cavity in the Wagner Bushcrafter model...a couple pieces of char and a ball of fungus in the cavity sets this model up for self contained use.

I also braided a nice neck lanyard for it. Replacing the rather standard leather thong supplied.





And open for shaft detail




Ok that is enough pimping.....

Schwert-

Can you comment please:

• Brass vs. wood shaft. Over time, would the brass shaft/piston perform more reliably? Not that wood doesn't perform well, but I'm wondering about susceptibility of the wood-piston versions to humidity/moisture or conversely, shrinkage due to extremely dry climate (read: the deserts of Arizona).

• Rubber O-ring vs. traditional waxed string gasket. I see you have both versions. Does it really matter which? Is the need to periodically rewind/rewax the string so infrequent that it's no big deal?

• The traditional design to capture the small bit of tinder on the end of the shaft is a recessed hole on the end. I've seen some with an open "notch" on the end, which would seem to have the advantage of easier transfer of the ignited tinder to a tinder nest (vs. digging ignited tinder out of recess with a tinder pick or whatever). Or is one as good as the other?

You might discern from my questions ... I'm aiming for reliability over being period correct in the design.

Thanks for the benefit of your experience.

Thanks, everyone...Yeah I saw it on Les's show and want one...

OK...let me try some answers....

Wood vs Brass. I do not have one of the brass lined versions, but did initially have a high friction piston in my first cocobolo piston from Darrel. He reworked it for me and thought that a piece of unseasoned cocobolo was responsible. I live in a relatively wet place and had not had any issues with any of my three wood pistons since. I honestly cannot say what will happen over more time or would happen if I moved to a drier place...however there is a reasonable amount of space between the piston body and shaft that the seal closes...so very small changes should not affect the piston much. The brass lined wood block versions should be stable essentially forever I would think. They use a wood shaft and only if that changed dramatically would they either sieze or be too loose. I really cannot say what will happen, but I have had excellent success with my wood pistons over the past couple of years.

O-ring vs string. I love the string seal. The traditional look and feel really is what I like. I have only had to do one rewrap of a string seal and it is a bit tricky....not too hard but it can require more than one attempt to get just the feel you want. This is really one aspect I do like....if you twist the cotton as you wrap you can "bulk up" the string or flatten it depending on the way you twist....this allows some adjustment to the seal. Slipping on an o-ring is as easy as it gets but there is no fine tuning ability. As you use the piston little flakes of fungus etc can get caught in the string, or gritty pieces could cut the o-ring. So far I have never had my o-ring version fail....and it is a real nice piston. However, if I was only buying one it would be string. You can make a case that the string is field fixable but to me that is a rather esoteric argument to make as I fell a piston is more a fun device than a front line fire making tool that my life would depend upon. Don't take that wrong though as I do find the pistons highly dependable, but I would not purchase a string version for the field fixable aspect alone.

recess vs notch. All mine have the recess. I do think it is important as you make your tinder nest to have a small sliver of wood to pick that ember out. I have been able to poke the coal still on the shaft into my cedar bark nest and blow that ember into flame while it is still on the shaft. However a little notch to pop that coal out seems like a good idea to me. One of my pistons has a bone pick....nice.





The other trick I use is to have a small chunk of fungus in my tinder nest....poke the piston shaft with coal right up to that fungus piece and transfer the glow to that....then set the piston shaft down and blow the nest to flame with the child coal. This works great and is somewhat easier than picking out a tiny coal which can sometimes fall apart.

There are a huge number of operator tricks and preferences to learn with a piston, and I am pretty certain my experiences will be slightly different than others...but I bet everyone enjoys using a piston.

If I lost all my pistons today, I would ask Darrel to make me a cocobolo piston with tinder cavity with string seal as the replacement. I would likely not do add a pick to it. I really like the larger diameter more straight body versions I have rather than the tapered one.

I do think that tinder fungus is the best tinder too. Char is second and everything else is harder for me to light. Dry, soft punky tinder fungus is nearly 80% or greater reliable for me. One or two strikes and I have a coal. The harder outer fungus is much harder to ignite. Char has to be dry and well charred to light with as high a percentage. Sometimes I cannot get it to go especially if it has been high humidity weather.

You can dry damp tinder in the piston....2-4 strikes can drive off water. But if you are up to about 5 good hits and no coal change the tinder.

I hold the piston on my left hip or side and give the shaft a good solid quick whack with the pad of my right hand palm. Quickly withdraw the shaft and a gentle blow to spread the coal. The hit has to be quick...not a press but wham down, then remove the shaft rapidly with a twist (twist to tighten the string...otherwise you can undo the seal).

Make sure you lube that seal plenty. Vaseline or lip balm is excellent.....you cannot overlube I think. Especially as you are learning. Wipe off the string often to keep junk from scoring the piston body too.

That is about all I can think of, except have fun and demo the firemaker with kids....they never get enough of the magic.

You did good! Precisely the info I was looking for. And thanks too for the tips on technique.

Along the way, you convinced me to try the wood/string version. Your explanation suggests that if I were to experience a tiny bit of piston shrinkage, a slight bulking-up of the string should compensate to maintain integrity of the seal.

Guess Darrel's about to get more of my money. I'm very pleased with the firesteel/flint kit I bought from him couple of months ago. Quite satisfying to strike a fire the old world way.

If your woried about the wooden ones craking you can always get the buffalo horn ones. I will post a review of Jeff's wood vs. His buffalo horn ones as soon as they arrive!

Glad some of those answers helped. Darrel is a good guy.

I will be interested in the horn version review too. I have not ordered one, but looked plenty of times.

Darrel's firesteels are awfully nice eh....

Hi Schwert,

I am enjoying your replies and images as always.

Although the wooden fire pistons are attractive and would be my personal choice, I am considering purchasing a plastic (Lexan?) version to use as a demonstration tool with children.

I think a clear piston would illustrate the principles and technique better, do you have any experience with this construction material?

Thanks,

Mike

I have one lexan piston and it does not work well at all. Mine has about a half inch (maybe a little less) shaft...this makes the compression chamber quite large in comparison to the smaller cavity wood pistons. I can only get a flash maybe once in 20 hits with it, and very very very very infrequently do I get a coal. Mine is all flash and no fire....lots of work and ugly to boot.

I have no idea who made this lexan piston or if the others out there have such a huge cavity, but if they do I would avoid them like the plague.

I think you can get a flash in a dark room with them which is sort of cool but children are much more impressed with fire than flash in my view.

Check out the piston body diameter, cavity diameter and depth, and shaft diameter of any plastic one you are thinking of buying. I think these wood pistons have 3/8" shafts and the volume of the compression chamber has to be quite smallas the shaft nearly bottoms out. I would guess my Lexan version has a compression chamber that is 8-16 times greater than the wood pistons.

Hey Schwert,

I appreciate your detailed reply, Thanks.

Mike

Hey, i don't kno if this is normal but I ordered two fire pistons from Jeff Wagner from Wilderness Solutions and it has been a month and a half. When i ordered it said that it may be a few weeks because of the Christmas backlog but I didn;t expect this.

I've recently discovered the fascinating world of fire pistons, and can't imagine how they've escaped my attention thus far in life (having been obsessed with just about every other old-world survival skill since a kid). Based an all the great information in this thread I don't really have and "how to" question as of yet.

Schwert: I do have two questions from the photo you posted at the beginning of the thread. First of all, the bead which acts as a lanyard - is the whole unit just held together by friction/suction and is there any other function to the bead besides a decorative way to carry the fire piston? Second question is related to the knife in the photo - That's a gorgeous sheepfoot blade and I'm curious as to who makes it.

Cheers
Barak

Not in any way an answer to your question, but…

Schwert can make anything he photographs look gorgeous. He could make us all want to go out and buy a pile of poop by taking a picture of one. (I guess the more frugal members may just be motivated to make their own… )

Welcome Newguy!!!

Schwert,

I'll trade you my wife for any two things you've ever photographed! I can't afford both her and the stuff you show us.

-Blast

You guys are funny....anyone can take a good picture....it just takes a bit of time to find the right setup. Also I don't really need another wife.


As to the little wooden bead on the lanyard. That device has a couple of purposes. You put in on the piston shaft to easily facilitate storage of the shaft in the piston body. That is in a firepiston without one of these to put it together for storage you may have to press the shaft in a couple of times to get it to stay down there (due to compression it wants to pop up). The bead spacer makes it easy to insert the shaft into the body once and it stays in place....pretty minor thing really. It's most important function is as a place to put a lanyard. It is just a grooved ring and I tied that leather lanyard loop to be undersize to the ring....then forced it over it so it stays in place by friction and tension alone. Wearing the piston around my neck it is super easy to pull the shaft, leaving the bead handing around my neck. Once I have a coal it goes back together around my neck.

Putting a lanyard on a firepiston without the ring is possible but it seems like it may be in the way more often than not...this ring keeps it simple, looks good and functions nicely. That piston from Jeff Wagner also has a a hollow in the top of it for chaga and lube....nice.

The knife is a #4 Wharncliffe from Gene Ingram. This one with aged antler for the handle and slightly hollow ground rather than his normal flat grind. A super knife.