Greetings,

I've been designing a compact personal survival kit and am looking for a better water collection / storage / transportation vessel. Right now I use condoms, but they have their short comings :-).

Recently I discovered oven (roasting) bags. They are not plastic; they are heat resistant nylon. And they are (in my experience) more durable and more compactable than plastic. But the problem with oven bags (as water vessels) is that the height to width ratio is too low. They are often 18x24, and that's not only too big, but not very convenient when you want to tie off the top.

If you measure the circumference of a 1 liter Nalgene bottle, its 11.5 inches. So a tubular bag this same circumference would be 5.75 inches (when flat). Rounding up make the (ideal?) width of 6 inches. Now you want enough bag to tie off the top after filling it with 1.5 liters of water. So I'm guessing that's about 18 inches. Again, just a guess.

It seems like 6 x 18 inches would be a good size. But these dimensions are somewhat reverse engineered to be similar to a 1 liter Nalgene bottle. Is that a good idea?

[can you tell I'm an engineer? :-]

What size would you prefer for these water vessels?

Cheers,
Robert

In all honesty, using the condoms, which aren't rated for food contact, isn't appealing and those oven bags seams will eventually develop a leak.

Personally, I'd roll up a couple of Platypus 1.0 L water bladders for my kit. They measure 6x12 inches, weigh a mire 3.5 oz dry and roll up like a cigar.

Check here too.

I carry a 1L flat pack bottle by Source in my shoulder bag. It takes up next to no space (empty), it's made from anti-bacterial plastic and comes in many sizes...handy!

Oven bags instead of condoms. I guess if your into hot sex ...

Condoms for water storage is IMHO an anachronism. Latex condoms are notoriously subject to UV degradation and puncture. Once filled they pretty much have to be carried by hand and they neither stand up nor stay open on their own. And, even in the Holmsian sizes, they don't carry much water.

IMO Platypus bags or Camelback bladders are much more useful. I always likes the USGI two-quart collapsible canteen. Very handy those. But I haven't seen one for sale in quite some time.

As far as oven bags go I have seen someone boil water in one. Trick is to form a hoop holding the rim and to keep the fire compact and the bag full. Seemed mighty subject to catastrophic failure but I think with practice it might not be too bad.

I'm just klutzy enough, IMO everyone is when your cold, tired hungry and worried, that I think I will stick to a can or pot.

Oven bags have been advocated as an aid to escaping a fire. A large one over the head and sealed at the bottom gives you several minutes of breathable air and decent visibility in a heat resistant package. Beats breathing toxic fumes and collapsing half-way to the door. I have seen it recommended for people on commercial airliners.

I filled some large oven bags with water and they broke fairly easily. They might be okay if you don't put too much in them. I also tried breast milk bags. They are very tough and self sealing, but hold very little and I had trouble getting them in my altoids tin PSK. My current PSK has the bags that come with shake and bake. They pack well, hold a decent quantity, and seem to be pretty tough.

Mike

I use sandwich bags - hold a litre, pack small, and with the top tied survived a 6 foot drop onto concrete, which is enough for me

Someone wrote about using aquarium bags (the sort you buy fish in) a while back. I don't have a source, but they seemed pretty robust

One possible alternative is if you have a vacuum sealer, is to take an empty quart or gallon bag (these are very sturdy) and seal across the top. When you want to use the bag snip one corner, when filling, fill perhaps ¾ of the way, squeeze out the air and then fold multiple the corner and secure with a paperclip. I have not tried to seal one of the roasting bags, but this might work with those as well, allowing you a more confined bag top. If you have a little extra room in your kit, use a bag sealer clip (you can find these now in most kitchen areas of retail stores. These clips can be used for a variety of applications.

Ikea has a good price 30 clips for $2.99, but other retailers should also have a selection.

Sealing Clips


Pete

It may have been somewhere else in the Forum, but someone mentioned the use of the bags used by mothers who express their milk. Gerber makes them. They don't hold a ton of water but I think it was said they seal very reliably....

If you don't mind a bit of extra effort you can make a water bag using heat seal nylon, a 1-2 qt size will roll up into a very small package. I made a 1.5 qt size for one of my kits and it is very easy to do.

Hi RobertNielsen,

I prefer the Aloksak Resealable Polybags,

The small bags in the photo will carry about 400ml of water reasonably securely and have other uses as well if they are used to keep other things dry such as in the photo below. 2 small or 1 medium Aloksak bags will easily fit inside an BCB minimess tin PSK with the rest of the survival kit. They fold up very small and they are pretty tough. When carrying water it is important to ensure that the seal at the top of the bag is sealed perfectly though before carrying water inside.

Hi Robert,

I have never warmed up to the "condom for water storage" idea (I have had a few break) so I use Whirl-Pak bags, and am happy with them. I am often required at work to secure liquid in these bags, when closed correctly they do not leak and withstand quite rough handling.

Doug did a test of these compaired to Gerber bags in the Equipped Briefs section of the main webpage found here http://www.equipped.org/etsbriefings202.htm#condom_alternatives

The only difficulty I have found with Whirl-Paks is that they usually have to be purchased in bulk, where the Gerbers are found in small quanities at many stores.

Mike

We used to use oven baking bags to line our crock pots, made cleanup a lot easier. Then a while back they all started leaking, every one of them, every time. So, using one of them as a replacement for a condom, for whatever reason, is not recommended...

Why not use the Nalgene Bottle itself? It's not compact but it is easy to carry (tons of different carry options). You can store your gear in ziplock/glad freezer bags inside the container so they're good to go if you have to empty the bottle for use as water storage.

Another option are these http:

http://www.basegear.com/lmwaterpouch.html

I just received some and they are far superior to the aloksaks (which I also received in the same order) I blew air into one of the liberty mountain pouches, sealed it and stood on it. The bag didn't let go. That test didn't work with the aloksaks, in fact the seals on them don't work well at all.

I think these are cool as well, little off topic but great water storage

http://www.msrgear.com/hydration/dromedary.asp

or

http://www.msrgear.com/hydration/dromlite.asp

Again not compact but easy to edc.

JMO

BTW not affiliated with any of the above mentioned.

Blitz

I buried it a bit but so far my favored provision for carrying water in my kit are the Platypus bottles.

http://www.platypushydration.com/product_detail.aspx?ProdID=36

They are tough, compact and reliable. If and when they get a pinhole after a lot of rough use they are repairable. Even after many trips under lousy conditions and with little to no pampering none of my Platypus bottles have had to be retired. The patches are cheap, light and compact. I usually slip one or two into my wallet on trips.

I keep two rolled up half-liter ones in my small PSK and two liter size ones in the larger kit. For hiking the bladders and canteens see use but these Platypus bottles. Note that the screw-on caps are a bit lighter and more compact than the pop-up tops but they have to be completely removed to drink and so they more subject to loss. In my larger kit I use one pop-up and one screw -on. With a screw-on as a spare. A bottle without a cap is pretty useless.

This is also one of my main complaints on using condoms or oven bags or zip-locks. The closures are not very good or easy to use.

This company also sells larger carrier bags and bladders. I haven't used one but they are said to be good. When my present set of bladders and canteens give up I will be looking closely at what Platypus has for replacements.

Tip - If you take a screw on cap and drill a 1/16" hole in the center and screw it on a half-liter collapsible bottle you have a nice device for irrigating open wounds. You can also do it with a zip-lock but these tri-laminate bottles can take more pressure and be reused many times. I colored the drilled cap with a red marker so it doesn't get confused with the others and also keep one without the hole handy. All three pieces ride in my first-aid kit.