This used to annoy the you know what out of me until I became a high school teacher. Although I teach Theology, not history, it's amazing how little my students know about anything in the humanities (philosphy, history, music, literature) and how little they know about their own faith. I place the blame on the system (too much self-esteem fluff and not enough emphasis on real achievement) and the parents (failing to turn off the computer, TV and game consoles).

I think a lot of it has to do with the lack of interest in reading. This year, I've turned off the TV (with exceptions for NFL, NHL, MLB games and select programs on the History, Discovery channels). My wife and I hit the local public library and pick up books to read every two weeks. I've discovered that my concentration is improving as well as an revived interest in learning as much as I can about everything.

I'll get off my soapbox. There is one upside - most of the books on history, philosophy and literature are never wait-listed at the library.

As a Pastor, it bothers me to hear this kind of "logic". One of the most effective ways I can relate a thought or idea is through the use of history. Even Christ Himself spoke of historical events that took place before He came into this world. Just so you know, your new neighbor doesn't speak for all of us.

Sue, I hope that we can respectfully agree to disagree on this. I too was 18 in 1968, and I too knew a lot about the subjects you mentioned. But so too do my kids who are 26 and 30 and who went to public schools. And I can tell you that at least one 12 year old went to school in Europe and wasn’t at a disadvantage, except when she returned to the US. My DD2 spent a semester in an international school in Paris. She learned a lot (mostly about wanting to travel) but it did not help to get ahead when she got back to the states. I’ve worked with the products of European and Japanese school systems and I give them no clear, overall advantage over the US kids I’ve hired. Kids who want to learn can get a heck of an education at the average public school in this country. The course selection in high schools today outstrips what I had. AP classes and such can earn kids college credit as sophomores in high school. My wife’s 3rd grade class is doing lessons I did in 4th and 5th grade.

But I don’t say all is perfect or even well. There are always improvements that can be made at all levels. Dropout rates are higher than they have been in a while. It’s getting harder to keep qualified teachers (most new teachers quit after 5 years) so as the older generation of experienced teachers retire, you won’t have a lot teachers with 15, 20 and 25 years of experience. That’s not good. Because good teachers motivate, good experienced teachers motivate and get results. But more kids are getting post high school educations, more women are getting science and math degrees, more colleges are starting to make humanities courses mandatory. And, believe or not, No Child Left Behind, is working as the percentage of kids performing at grade level is going up significantly.

That being said let me finish by saying that human nature isn’t dependent on nationality, race or creed. Motivated kids will learn and unmotivated kids will not regardless of the situation. The job of parents and teachers is to motivate them to enjoy learning and take it on as a life long task. Reading, as you have mentioned Sue, is the keystone but it doesn’t much matter if it’s classic books, wikipedia, blogs, or that bastion of power and corruption, the New York Times. Hopefully it’s all of the above and more.

Finally, I make a pledge to never address this issue again on these forums.

I'd like to ask - In what year did the standards of the Department of Education drop so as to allow that a degree in education was sufficient to teach at public schools? I'm curious.

"Pack of crazy fools....Listening to the young folks, nothing's good enough for them. Next thing you know, they'll be wanting to go back to living in caves, nobody work any more, live that way for a while. Used to be a saying about 'Lottery in June, corn be heavy soon.' First thing you know, we'd all be eating stewed chickweed and acorns."

+1 on Shirley Jackson!

-Blast

Mmmm...stewed chickweed and acorns.

+1 to Blast for the immediate literary source recognition.

It's not that they changed the standard. It's that they spend the last month on nothing but whats on the test.

Yeah, but in Japan, they will not learn about any of the things they did in China or Korea during WWII - total whitewash

What bugs me in history at my daughters school - she can tell you all about Rosa Parks, Malcolm X, MLK, etc - but she had NO idea who Grant or Sherman, or Ike were!

Spent about 3-4 nights correcting THOSE oversights - and periodically go over the eras in history that the school is supposidly teaching.

Teaching her about the Civil war was 'interesting' because I got to pull out copies of her Great-Great-Great-Grandfather's letters home from the war (He was a battlefield surgeon for the Union side) (I think I got the right number of Great's in there)

A few thoughts on history:

Some things don't change much. I'm reminded of a writer from something like 400 BCE proclaiming that the youth of his day are disrespectful, shallow, irreverent and how they are so much worse than his generation. I'm also reminded that even though 'kids today are weak' remains a perennial favorite song to sing we somehow seem to get down the road pretty well.

I also note that things happen for a reason. Castro was brought up. Castro is/was not a saint. But he is/was a big improvement over the guy he replaced. He didn't simply declare himself ruler. He rode to power on the shoulders of a popular revolution that was united behind bringing down a violent, corrupt and destructive regime.

Someone was quoted as saying that they thought the Enola Gay was a bar in SanFranscisco. That's one way to see it. I thought it was a B-29. Maybe both.

Samuel Clemons was supposed to have said that history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.

On the survival side I note there are always the alarmists. Chicken Little souls who are sure that the next time it is 'The Big One'. Maybe it will be. But over the last few thousand years we have always gotten through it. It wasn't always pretty and there were many left behind but, as a whole, humanity has generally been able to get by.

Which tells me that it is pretty likely that no matter how bad things get in the future somebody has been through worse with less mental preparation and fewer material resources. Which means if your at least nominally mentally and physically prepared your odds are really quite good.