Hey Taurus, just I little info on the S&W 500 magnium. If you're going to go for it make sure to wear a glove, I could not hold the gun steady in recoil and literaly had it shift in my grip. In 3 shots my palms were red and sore, kinda like a rug burn......
I have shot a BFR single astion model with a six and a half inch barrel and the Smith with the stubby 4" and the extensive porting. The smith, when gloves were worn, was enjoyable to shoot and not overly abusive. Abusive, but not too bad. The BFR was a beast no matter what. No perting at all. If you are going to target shoot I'd suggest the shorty smith, and I'm quite sure you'd still be able to kill anything within 100 meters w/o problems if you went hunting with it. Shooting at a 1/4 solid steel target that was manhole sized at 50 feet or so......it was possible to "flip" it almost horizontal shooting the lower edge

-Bill Liptak

Hi Hacksaw,

We may be taking this post off on a tangent and for that I apoligize in advance to Taurus.

I cannot speak about getting your Hunting Licence and Federal Firearms Licence in Alberta but I can tell you how it is usually done in Northern Ontario. Most people take the combined Prov. Hunting/Fed. Firearms Course over a series of weeknights or on a weekend, they then write the 2 exams and do the practical handling test. (Cost is between $200 and $300)

To get your Provincial Hunting Licence you then just go to a Ministry of Natural Resource office, show them your qualifications and buy the licence tags you want (you get a paper temporary licence on-the-spot, a plastic Outdoor Card arrives later in the mail).

The Federal Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL) is a fair bit more involved. You fill out the forms, pay them a fee ($60) get a passport type photo, sign up references, plus your spouse or ex-spouses all of whom will be contacted for a reference after your Criminal Security check is done. This process will take months but a PAL is required before a new adult hunter can purchase a firearm/ammo or possess a firearm outside the direct and immediate supervision of another adult licence holder. It is a long process but you only have to do the testing once and the licence is renewed every 5 years. To possess restricted or prohibited weapons the process is even much more involved.

The Canadian Firearms Centre has a decent website located here http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/default_e.asp

I do not wish to discourage you about getting involved in shooting and hunting, I think it is well worth the effort and my son recently went through the whole process with no problem.

Concerning eye dominance, that is great that both your eyes work well, if you are left handed then shooting left should not be a problem for you. I had a question on the forum about shooting my new Papoose rifle left handed so I tried it. Being right handed it felt very awkward for me but the functioning of the rifle and ejection of the casings were no problem (the push button safety would be backward, I do not know if you can reverse it, not a big deal?)

I checked out a lot of take-down .22 rifles before I bought the Papoose. The Henry US Survival Rifle was very interesting but it did not fit me well and has a bad reputation for jamming and poor accuracy; search it on the web for details (it was called the AR7 in the past). Depending on the finish the cost is nearly that of the Papoose.

The papoose was not overly expensive, I bought it mailorder at SIR for $255.00 plus tax and shipping, see it here http://www.sirmailorder.ca/show_prod.php...294b8602dcf5450 . I found it was difficult to find one of these used? There is lots of info on the Papoose on the web.

I will agree with Taurus that the Ruger 10/22 stainless/synthetic that he hunts with is proabaly a better firearm, but the take-down feature is only available with some aftermarket additions (e.g. change barrel connector, new folding stock). I also agree that semi-auto's are proabaly the sporting action which requires the most maintainence to keep them functioning well, expecially in cold or dirty conditions.

Other very interesting and versatile survival/hunting firearms are the combination guns; the Savage 24 series or the Springfield M6. This gives you a shotgun and rifle in one firearm, I often carry a Savage 24 Camper Companion in .22 rimfire over 20 gauge, it is very handy.

Taurus is correct in that the hunting bug is easy to catch and can get very expensive, what a great way to spend time in the bush though.

Nice talikng with you,

Mike

I don't think Taurus will mind this thread talking about firearms more than his gear LOL.

I've been looking very closely at the 24C. Having both a .22 and a 20 gauge shotgun in one solid and simple unit is exactly my type of hardware. I see that there are a lot used on the web but some are quite old. How hard are they to take down into pieces? Is that even an option?

I'm in no hurry so if it takes months then I can live with that. The safety course I'm taking is free and the hunter safety course is offered online for only $70 from the same outfit. I'll just need to find somewhere to do my written and practical exam...I still haven't learned if the same place does that as well...it may.

Swampdonkey - The Barnes bullets IMO are the best you can buy. They are fairly expensive though. The problem is that they are grossly overpowered for deer. I shot one deer this past hunting season with a 150 grain Barnes
x triple shock and it didn't even look like I hit him. My only indication of bullet impact was a falling branch directly behind the deer. He took about three strides and dropped flat. The bullet actually
went through the deer, and over halfway through a tree about a foot thick. I used my kukri to chop the bullet out and kept it. There was a bit more meat damaged by the Barnes bullet than I liked so I switched to Hornady SSTs in 150 grain for Deer. These work wonders and I ended up
getting 4 more deer this season using SSTs. The Barnes x bullets Excel at taking larger game where the bullets energy can be optimized. The bullets are solid copper and when the pre stressed petals fold back after impact they form a razor sharp metal star shape. Twice the original diameter with 100 percent weight retention. I think they ripped through my deer before full expansion
could take place. I know I could tweak this by lowering my powder charge to try and lower the impact velocity, or maybe dropping to a lighter bullet but the SSTs worked so well that I stick to them for deer
and the Barnes bullets for anything larger.
I shot a Moose a while ago between the front quarters with a 168 grain Barnes x and the Moose dropped like a sack of hammers. I have never seen a more effective, clean killing bullet than the Barnes x triple shock for larger game.

These are bullets recovered from game. 168 grain Barnes x triple shock on the right and the Hornady 150 grain SST on the left. Notice the difference in expansion.


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BillLiptak – I have fired the .500 before. I was shooting holes through ammo cans filled with sand (2 deep) with a friend’s S & W . What a MONSTER of a gun. You are right about the glove. I am no wimp when it comes to recoil but I don’t care who you are when it comes to this gun you better hang on to it cause it kicks like a pissed off mule. In Canada I cannot legally own the 4 inch barrel. It must be at least 6. I want this model, but with the 10.5 inch barrel. OH YA!
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Hacksaw – The bolt action is the most reliable of any gun for sure, and the most accurate but they fetch a much higher price in .22 cal. A semi-isn’t a bad choice but they do jam on occasion when they get gummed up after a day’s firing so if you take it afield be sure to take a field cleaning kit. Most semi auto.22 cal rifles will not shoot subsonic ammo either,(unless you load each one manually) as the lower powered bullets do not have the power to cycle the action . At this time of year if you take the semi-auto out to play keep in mind the action will freeze if you aren’t carful. A bolt action is a lot less likely to freeze in these temps. As well some bolt actions can fire .22 long(rare) .22 LR and .22 short ammo where a semi auto can’t. Where you are left handed you may want to consider a pump action .22 cal (more rugged than a semi auto but with a tubular magazine usually) The tube mag poses a whole new problem in cold weather though. The break down models are nice, I had a crack barrel version which was a 410 bore/.22 survival gun. I sold it because anything that is designed to break down usually fits looser when assembled than a fixed model and accuracy suffers, also, I like to have mine at the ready in case something tasty hops by so I have little use for a break down model. As always YMMV. Just a few more things to consider. Have fun looking and keep us informed on what you decide to buy. The Ruger 10/22 Stainless synthetic in my picture retails for about 300 bucks at Wholesale sports in Edmonton. Drop down there if you get time and get a few different models in your hands to play with. You won’t be disappointed with a Ruger though. It has never failed me and many a critter has been added to my freezer or a stew pot in its honor. It just requires a little extra TLC in this cold.

Swampdonkey – don’t apologize for steering this thread in a different direction. I do it enough to other people I am sure. I love to talk guns as much as survival.

Hi Taurus,

I am eager to try Barnes-X Triple Shock bullets on moose after I finish my supply of .338 cal 250gr Nosler Partitions. Recently though my group has been hunting big game with muzzloaders more because adult validation tags are easier to draw than in the regular rifle season.

Sorry to tell you that Photobucket says you images exceeded the bandwidth, whatever that means, I still shoot a 35mm camera.

Concerning Sub-sonic ammo and it's use in the Marlin Papoose. I have used both Remington and CCI Sub-sonic ammo in this rifle with no problem, this is what I hunt rabbits/grouse, it does not tear them up, is accurate and quiet. I tried CCI CB Longs and they had to be cycled out of the magazine into the chamber by hand one-at-a-time.

Hacksaw, there are some older model rifles that are takedowns (levers, pumps, autos), it would be worth going to a gun show where you can see and handle lots at one place.

The Savage 24's are still made but are quite a bit larger and heaver than the older models. There are many versions of the old wood stocked 24's and I like the .22 rimfire over 20 ga. verson the best. The reason is that I take this gun camping and I would rather use a 20 ga. slug on a bear than a .410. The Savage 24's are discussed on the net here http://www.cylindersmith.com/savage24/index.html

The 24 is a popular gun, good used ones go quickly and command a decent price around here. The Savage 24 breaks-down into 3 pieces very easily like most break action arms (the Camper Companion orginally came with a fitted, padded takedown case).

Your Provincial hunting course process sounds easier and less expensive than ours in Ontario.

Taurus, I agree with you it is just as fun talking hunting as it is survival. Most of my fall/early winter trips combine both.

Later,

Mike

Do the pics work now Swampdonkey ?

Hi Taurus,

Yes the images are working fine now.

Nice expansion on both bullets and appropriate for the game they were recovered from. Were they fired from a 30-06?

What are the loaded rounds in the bottom right corner of the top pic?

That handgun looks like a real cannon, proabaly hit like a ton of bricks on both ends!

Thanks,

Mike

Yes sir. The good old .30-06 is the finest caliber ever designed IMHO. It remains my fav caliber to shoot with and hunt with despite the others I have. I have a .338 as well but wouldn’t shoot a poor Deer with it. I imagine it would smear said deer over a 10 yard strip. The bottom pic is a speed loader of .357 Mag XPT rounds. They are my alternative solution to the aluminum bat discussed on a previous post.

I have fired muzzle loaders but have never hunted with one. It seems like a bit of fun actually. I am still trying to get good with my Browning MYST bow but it is hard to practice this time of year. Maybe I will get some muzzle loading info from you later.
Take care

Hi Taurus,

I put away my bow a few years ago because there were no big game archery seasons in my area (a new deer season opened last year but we do not have many deer). My hunting group got in to muzzleloaders so we could hunt moose in the September rut and whitetail deer in December. The muzzleloaders have been a lot of fun and we now are upgrading from the cheap ones we started with to high quality smokeless powder ones (Savage Bolt Actions). There are a lot of regulations in each jurisdiction as to what is a legal muzzleloader, many will not allow saboted bullets, in-line ignition, smokeless powder, pelleted powder, scopes, etc. You really need to do the research in your hunting location before buying a rifle to be sure it is legal.

PM me anytime if you think I can help you out.

Mike

Great post and great setup. It looks like you have everything covered. What type of rifle are you carrying? I just picked up a Marlin Papoose .22LR Take-Down Rifle that I strap to the bottom of my pack. It's a great survival rifle and quite accurate for a take-down.