Hi. Let's suppose that you live in a country where owning a firearm is illegal (I don't). Or suppose you are philosophically against owning a firearm (I'm not). What do you think is the next best weapon for home defense? I am thinking an aluminum bat by the bedside.

It should work fine if the perp is SLOW AND UNARMED!

I am sitting here, sipping my first cup of java, and have the Today show on, just for the noise. They say that they have a segment coming up about a 14 year old kid in AZ, armed with a ball bat, who called 911 when a badguy broke into his home. Using their words, it was "kid four, bad guy zero." But I think you would have to strike first, fast, and often. If the BG has a gun, you are toast more than likely...

More info. Segment was kind of hohum, but the 14 year old was very calm thru the whole thing, lots of commotion in the background during the scuffle, and the BG left...

A big dog. I have my fair share of guns and such, but I would love to see the look on a robbers face if my dog grabs a hold of him. He makes a darn good intruder alarm for sure.

First time poster, long time lurker. All I can say is thank you to all members. Each and every one of you has stimulated my thoughts about being more prepared. There are some instances in my life (usually during winter and involving cars) that make me more prepared and this forum definitely helps. With that said...

I think a baseball bat is adequate defense. If it were me, I would want something a bit more potent. A good dog, security system (with signs out front), a can of bear repellent/mace/pepper spray, and lastly a gun(s) are the defenses for my family. I do not want to get in to close combat with an intruder. A bat or knife could easily be taken away by someone with a little training and then used against you.

Just some food for thought. Good luck in your decision.

Funny timing for this thread. This is on Fox news today:

After trying to hide in a closet, a bat-wielding 14-year-old has no choice but to fight off an intruder rummaging through his Arizona home Tuesday, AZCentral.com reports.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,323423,00.html

So I would say yes, a viable defense.

An alunimum bat should be good for home defense, as long as the intruders aren't armed and a distance off. Alunimum is also perferable to wood. Lighter weight = faster swing/ recovery. Also wood tends to channel the shock force thru skin and muscle, deep to the bones so a lot of times you have to commit to shattering bones to stop an aggressor. Whereas metal and plastics/polymers spread the force really well over the skin (read that as nerves) as well, therfore causing neuromuscular failure before the shattering of limb is required.......
+1 on the big dog from taurus. If you can/want keep one, you will find no better early warning/burglar alarm/remote antagonizer/best friend......we have two. The big one is an 85 lb Rhodesian/pit bull mix and his bark alone makes my eardrums hum in our apartment

That's very interesting.
It also makes me want to choose a wooden bat.

-Blast

I've seen many instances of people who see a big dog and are afraid regardless fo what kind of dog and its temperment. I've seen people afraid of dogs that would only like them to death. I've also seen such dogs turn angry and protective, when you threatened someone they cared about, and I've had such a dog. You don't need a rottie, and even the one who is not a guard dog may protect you. Many are great alarms, because few things can sneak by them without them making noise.

If picking a bat, pick one that is light. It will allow you to swing faster.

I've got one of those bats designed for clubbing a fish in a boat. They are short and heavy and pack a bit of a wallop. If someone breaks into my place then after I shoot them a few times I could finish them off with the bat.(maybe I should add some nails to it) Then the dog can chew on him while I get a mop and call the police. I will have no mercy on anyone that breaks into my home and threatens my family.

I will have no mercy on anyone that breaks into my home and threatens my family. [/quote] AMEN!!!. I am prepared to repel "boarders", and have full intentions to do so. EMS will NOT be needed, LEO and the Medical Examiner will be. I probably won't use a bat as that requires me to get too close to the scum. The aforementioned only if my German Shepherd dosen't get to them first, hehehe.

One year while shopping for college supplies, I picked up an aluminum T-ball bat. I lovingly called it "The Attitude Adjuster". When the guys I lived with and I would razz each other, often times we would pick it up and threaten each other jokingly. Never had to use it to defend anything though.

It seems to me that when one is considering such a tool for defense in an enclosed space, the shorter T-ball bat might be a good option. True, the reach is less, but since using a bat as a defense tool is a short distance affair anyway, you will be less likely to clobber that heirloom grandfather clock or the curio cabinet with a T-ball bat.

I don't know as in a situation like this if the physics of wood vs. aluminum or plastic for distributing force and such will be as important. Remember that most criminals do not want to fight someone...they want to dominate someone. A good whallop from a bat will immediately start the BG thinking that he picked the wrong house. Broken bones serve as a good wake up call of course, but the object is to eliminate the threat, whether he ends up broken or merely bruised.

Cold Steel's Brooklyn Smasher and Brooklyn Crusher look like fun options for bat defense IMO.

Dogs are a great first line of defense strategy. Normally, they are pretty territorial.

A different tactic could be the non-lethal approach as shown on some TV program: get a can of Great Stuff expanding insulating foam and fire away. If you saw the show you know that us guys have a natural instinct to protect the twin sources of our lineage (as it were). Just aim low and fire away. The hands will drop to protect and get mucked up. You could, of course, aim at the face and see what happens there.

This method may need to tried out the next outing with the guys. Find the one who is being a bit of jerk. Tell him "Here, hold my beer..." or "Hey watch this!!..." Could be fun for you and everyone else, minus one.

Cold Steel makes an unbreakable bat made from synthetic polymers and is designed for just this use.

The three or four cell mag would be good, albiet a short reach self defence tool (i.e. weapon) and very easy to explain to local law enforcement. When responding to this I was kinda thinking self defence via "harmless" items. For example, in Great Britton it would be hard to justify the cold steal polymer bats....easier to explain a normal one. Or even better a cricket bat. Bonus of being shorter and heavier than a baseball bat. Other items could be a hammer, either end but steer away from the claw end (asuming you want less than lethal aplications), hatchet, axe or crowbar. Put a couple rolls of quarter into a "double bagged" pair of socks. Kitchen knives, meat cleaver, large pair of sicisors, golf clubs, hockey stick, tennis racket......the list goes on and on.
For me, I'll stick to my mossberg 590 (and yes it does have the bayonet lug...and bayonet) or my glock 22 with nite sights and m3 flashlight underneath.
But I didn't have guns, I'm swinging for the bleacher on the first crook who tries to steal home

-Bill Liptak

I'm using my machete if I can cut a 2" limb off a tree with one swipe then other limbs shouldnt be a problem. Thats if my guns are somehow unavailable.

Good point about the legality. Unfortunately in Canada anything becomes a weapon the second you swing it at somebody so it wouldn't matter if it were a bat or a kitchen knife or a lead pipe...all would be considered weapons home invasion or not.

So if anyone desides to break into our homes here in Canada we had better make it worth our while as we are going to jail anyway. Screw the bat, my Mossberg 935 and a few 3 1/2 inch Mag shells filled with #4 Buckshot will make the jailtime worth it.

Break in? I thought folks in Canada didn't lock doors...at least that's what Michael Moore showed in "Fahrenheit 9-11"

Some don't. I have friends who leave their doors unlocked at night.

I don't buy into that brand of faith.

As a fellow Canuck, I respectfully submit that these conclusions are not entirely correct. True, anything used as a weapon is treated as such; but it's not illegal to use a weapon in a legitimate case of self-defence. You have the right to defend yourself if you reasonably apprehend death or serious bodily harm. But you may only use the minimum force necessary to stop the immediate threat. Sometimes minimum force leads to the death of the perp; and while that is homicide, it's not murder. If you clearly go too far, and become the aggressor after the immediate threat has ended, you may well face criminal prosecution. An example would be, say, pursuing and bashing in the skull of perp that is trying to get the heck out of your house. I think the police and Crown prosecutor give reasonably leeway in self-defence cases, but there are limits to how far you can go.

I'd rather have something I can thrust with and have some power behind it, due to the space needed for a swing.A tonfa would be ok, but probably difficult in a place where you can't do firearms, and it lacks range. Swords and spears should not be overlooked, but but I'm not sure how the judge would react to it.

I'd probably take a short staff made of something like oak or one of the epoxy-impregnated wood products- balanced so I can use it like a sword, including thrusts, if I can't swing, but long enough that the staff techniques still work. Or the sword stand-in I use for building wrist strength- 1.5" dia solid steel rod, about three and a half feet long. Rattan is for when you are playing with friends, steel is for when it is just you and that shadow that keeps stalking you.

In any case, it isn't going to be something that isn't technique intensive.

Extremely valid point! It's true. Once you use more force than is needed to neutralize the situation, you are assaulting the person you're defending yourself from and can be charged as such.

The main difference between north and south of our border is that in the US once somebody has intruded your home, you the rules change...not so here unfortunately.

I agree and the Criminal Code of Canada clearly spells this out.

A few years back there was a court case in Winnipeg IIRC where a homeowner pulled a rifle at a suspected burglar and shot him in the leg. The gist of the case was whether it was true self defense or excessive force as it was shown that the homeowner always kept a firearm close by which in it's self is in contravention of the storage of non-restricted firearms regulations.

I am not sure what the outcome of the court trial was, however it shows there is a difference between reasonable self defense and possible excessive force in this particular case.

Not so.

Here, if you shoot someone and he stays down, you can't walk up to him and put one behind his ear just to be sure. Well, you can, but it stands a good chance of being called "murder". If he's out of the fight, it's over.

And most places to require that if they choose to run away, let them.

A good point. A swung bat is very easy to take away from somebody. I've seen it happen. I would opt for something I could jab with. Force is concentrated on a smaller area and you retain better control of your weapon. I think a 1" or 1 1/2" dowel or a closet rod would be a better option. You can also jab a lot faster then you can swing. Throw a dozen fast jabs to a person's face and belly. Check out the US Army combatives manual on the three foot stick

That is an intersting gizmo. In CA, probably enough to turn a simple flashlight into a felony to possess (12020 PC). It could ruin the bad guys day tho...

I know this is usually what turns into a hot topic for argument and I don’t want to fan the flames but…………In the service of my country I have had to put people in my sights and pull the trigger. You don’t think about what you are doing when you do either, you just do it. When you know your life is in danger you react and that’s it. We can talk for weeks about law and ethics and what you would like to think you would do in that kind of situation but in the end you will either freeze, or you will react. When you pull a trigger, swing a bat or thrust a sword you are deciding to use deadly force on another human being because all of these items have the potential to kill. This is a sensitive area for me because I have been in this situation on more than one occasion and whether it’s a terrorist pulling an AK-47 from under his clothes and pointing it at you or having a potential murderer in your house you will not have long to decide what to do. It is not something I EVER wants to do again but make no mistake, if anyone ever breaks into my home with the intent of harming my loved ones then they will die without ever having the chance to run. If they think that this is unfair then they shouldn’t BE IN MY HOUSE IN THE FIRST PLACE. I prey it never happens because I know what I will do. As long as my family is safe then I am fully prepared to deal with the consequences.

But that’s just my opinion

Amen. By the way, you're welcome to stay in my house anytime!

As for the question, I think a nice wooden bat or cricket bat would be a significant deterrent. A good dog is wonderful also, I don't require a guard dog, just one with good hearing. Give me 10 seconds, that's all I ask... I know my house in the dark, my eyes are already night adapted, and with my 10 sec warning, I'm good to go.

Given that scenario, I don't think any reasonable person would have a quarrel with what you've said. Such a response would IMO be justified and lawful.

If I may suggest it, though, there are other scenarios in which someone might be in the house illegally, and yet with no demonstrable intention of causing bodily harm. Some sort of graduated response would be needed; to shoot someone for stealing the TV would definitely be unlawful, and would lead to a world of legal trouble. Plus (for me anyway) it would be a tough thing to live with.

I'm not criticising in any way. I'm just trying to think out some appropriate strategies before the event. I imagine deterrent actions (suggested previously in the thread) would be the place to start.

"If I may suggest it, though, there are other scenarios in which someone might be in the house illegally, and yet with no demonstrable intention of causing bodily harm. Some sort of graduated response would be needed; to shoot someone for stealing the TV would definitely be unlawful, and would lead to a world of legal trouble. Plus (for me anyway) it would be a tough thing to live with."

For me, If I find someone unexpectedly in my house, they will be confronted by me, armed, but also trained, reasonable and prudent. That pretty much covers the waterfront for me. It's about as "graduated" as I get under the stipulated fact of someone "in the house illegally."

Jeff

I don't take it as criticism my friend, only as friendly discussion.

You have very valid points as well. I don't want to come across the wrong way. If I am lying in bed and hear someone in my garage then no, I am not going to wait in the darkness in order to kill him on his way out. There is nothing in my garage worth killing for. I will however, get my HD gun and herd my family together in one room while I call the police. I will be ready in case he does decide to try to get in the house. Meanwhile I will keep the family safe and wait for the police to show up and do their job as they are the experts. If he tries to make it inside the house then that is a whole new story and now I don't know if his intent is to steal something or to cause us harm. I like to discuss things here with people , that is what makes the forum entertaining. I never try to force my views on anyone and I make a point to try and end any controversial post with IMHO to show that these are only MY thoughts and that they are not necessarily right or wrong, they are just my thoughts. The fact is that every situation is different. It is up to you to decide what is the best course of action to protect your own loved ones. If I see a stranger in my home I wont assume he is a simple robber. He may be a rapist, a robber or a serial killer for all I know. He may indeed be only interested in the TV but who knows? That is not a chance I am willing to take with my kids life. I am not a violent person. In fact I am one of the most relaxed and laid back people you are likely to ever meet. When it comes to protecting my family though, I draw a very clear line in the sand. If I happen across a stranger in my home and I am in fear for my families safety, then that person has obviously stepped over that line on purpose. That person should have taken that into consideration BEFORE he decided all on his own to bust into my home. I love discussing survival topics on this forum, but in the end it is my families survival that I am most interested in and not my own. Anyway, enough of my ranting. I do not want to be rude and hijack this post but sometimes the topic goes astray……..I apologise Gear freak.

Back to the original question. I wonder how a tazer or stun gun would work for those who don’t have guns in the home. You could zap a bad guy and then cuff him if he is down (assuming they are alone) These are highly illegal in Canada so I don’t know much about how well they would work for a HD situation.

There are lots of good blunt instruments that will do if you have room to weild them and the drop on the BG. Heck, a good wollup with a 3/4" steel plumbin pipe about 2 1/2 feet long is probably quite effective at subduing someone when effectively used by an average sized person (male or female). Even the best gun is not going to do you much good, though, if the BG gets the drop on you.

Personally, I would prefer the terror aspect of home protection more than simple self defense. If you scare the Byjeezes outta the BG before he finds you, he is likely not to want to engage further. I wouldn't mind having a 6 foot tall robot shaped like a trash can and a couple of dryer duct hoses for arms with big electrical arcs in between yelling "DESTROY!!!" in a deep menacing voice. Of course, a big dog may work just as well if not better, especially if he has a rubber hand as a chew toy in his mouth at the time. The best deterrent I can think of would be to have the walls all splattered with blood, piles of gore and body parts strewn about, with the sounds of a muffled chainsaw and someone screaming "NO DEAR GOD AAAGH!!!" from under the floor or a back room. Like something out of Doom or Half life or some such. Might be a bit difficult to stage, but ought to be effective.

Yep, I want home invaders to have a deep, instinctive fear that entering my premises uninvited is to give up all hope.

Come to think of it, a chain saw would also be a pretty good home invasion weapon. Swing it or jab it, doesn’t really matter. Just kind of messy afterwards.

I hear you Ben.
That’s why I have two signs posted in my front yard. "Beware of Dog", and "Beware of owner"
If a robber still wants to take a chance then he is either very brave or very stupid. Maybe I should post a third sign........"Beware of Mossberg"

Taurus, I'm glad to hear you've thought through the "rules of engagement." It's wise to be ready to respond, and to do so appropriately. Hope you never have to face that situation.

If it's not out of line, may I ask: what happens when you're not at home (that is, operating under different rules of engagement)?

I've put a few measures in place so DW can sleep well. A couple of big dogs (not vicious, but loud and impressive) are the first line. Also, I live in the country, so a latched gate at the road is a deterrent to "window shoppers" who would always arrive by vehicle. And close at hand is a fresh can of bear spray (bought for bears, but dual purpose) and other useful items.

A friend related this story:
Taking a nap under a open, but screened, window he became aware of someone lifting up the screen and climbing in over top of him. He waited until the guy was committed and unable to run. Reaching under his pillow he took out his .38 revolver. He pushed this literally up the guys nose and had him bent backward. He cocked the gun for effect.

And then told him that he was going to blow his brains out if he didn't do something. Assent was immediate. The instructions were to go home and tell all of his homies that there was a scary, deranged guy who has a gun living in this apartment complex. That there would be no second chances for anyone ever again. The next guy that he caught would be shot and buried deep in the woods. He then let the guy go.

---------

The small apartment complex in the story had previously been robbed three or four times a year. It went five years without a break-in. Evidently the message got out.

I once had a guy try my door and, finding it unlocked, he snuck into the dark apartment from the lit porch. At the time I was buck naked and listening to a concert on the radio using headphones. I was watching him approach my door. I picked up a large knife and was standing in front of him, ghost-white, naked and armed, when his eyes adjusted. The look on his face was worth it. He didn't so much run as evaporate.

He was a block away by the time the screen door slammed. Evidently quiet, naked, music loving guys with large knives aren't his idea of good company. Go figure. Kind of hurts my feelings.

As in the previously cited case the frequency of robberies went down for a considerable amount of time after this.

While there are exceptions, like home invasions that are usually triggered by the advertised presence of drugs or large sums of money, the vast majority of intruders wish to avoid human interaction. They are generally lazy, simple-minded bottom feeders who are easily discouraged by simple having well secured doors and windows. Almost all flee if confronted.

That doesn't mean you might not do well to have sterner measures handy but it is important to keep the shape and size of the relative risk in mind and to not treat every situation like your repelling a hoard of zombie bikers bent on eating your brains.

In my house there are more areas in which I couldn't effectively wield a bat than areas in which I could. Do a "walk thru" with a bat and check this out for yourself. Haven't given much thought to other impact weapons or even edged weapons, for much the same reason: fortunately I can legally own firearms here, and my personal choice is to protect my home and family that way.

"...areas in which I couldn't effectively wield a bat..."

Keep in mind that there are other ways to use a bat, or a broom handle for that matter, other than swinging away like Babe Ruth. A good jab to the groin, gut, throat, etc, can do wonders...

Standard riot tactics are to avoid swinging a club in a wide swing holding one end like a bat. Swung that way anyone trained, alert or lucky will step inside the swing and use the attackers weight and momentum against them to either flip them or pry the club away.

The preferred method is to hold the club near the ends and to thrust it forward like a battering ram against soft spots or to use it held horizontally to block incoming attacks or thrust if they get close enough.

These techniques can be used effectively in narrow spots like tight hallways and are more controlled than 'swinging for the fence'.

One of the important point in using a club of some description is to substitute many smaller but quickly delivered attacks to multiple aiming points in rapid succession. Short, sharp swings are less likely to draw you out of position or leave you vulnerable. They also don't give them any time to react or think. Multiple rapid attacks coming from different directions aimed at different targets tends to disorient and overwhelm.

Don't just aim for the head. Ribs, gut, knees, throat and groin are all good. If even a light blow lands in any of these areas you throw them out of position and force them to react out of reflex or pain. Every time they do you gain an edge for the next swing. Eventually building your advantage until they break and run or you land a decisive strike. When in doubt keep swinging as rapidly and as aggressively as possible.

I once saw a video of a lady rescuing her dog from a huge bear. The lady used a common broom and by shear aggressiveness and both the volume and pace of the punishment laid on she backed the bear off. The bear couldn't get a paw in edgewise. After the bear fled it looked back unharmed but with a dazed and confused look.

I'm not advocating people fight bears with brooms but it points out that a determined and energetic defense can work even if the weapon used is incapable of inflicting real harm. Fights are mostly mental.

A bat is clearly an effective weapon if well used. It can slap the silly out of a grown man, incapacitate or kill. Don't underestimate what can be done with one if it is used aggressively.

OBG:
How do I identify your RV...so I can stay the heck out of it! You sound MEAN! You'd actually hit a poor burglar in the groin?

.........unsporting!

I almost died on this one. Mine would say "Beware of Mauser" but most folks probably wouldn't know better.

But, just a question, after reading Taurus... and OBG, perhaps you can shed some professional light on this question:

If you do end up defending yourself (with or without deadly force) and you're trained for such (eg police, military), are you more or less likely to have the Wrath Of The Law come down on you?

In my place there are no halls because it's an 'open concept' condo. There's 30 feet of open space between the front door and the bedroom.

I've often pondered this scenario because when we first moved in and half the condos weren't occupied there were a lot of squatters PLUS I live downtown and can count the homeless from my living room window PLUS the front door has a 6 foot pane of glass in it. I'm sure it's tough glass but no match for a well placed kick or pipe or bat, etc.

I don't own a gun or even a bat and if somebody did break in they'd be able to get to my kitchen knives long before I would could even get out of my bedroom.

There's also no running. I'm on the 3rd floor and there's only one door.

I'm not sure I'd have much of a hope against any sort of determined intruder.

In your case, I think that I would do something about that glass in the door...

A lot of that depends on where you live. Some states have passed the "home is your castle" kind of laws, whereby you can whack anyone who comes thru the front door uninvited. Others, like CA, require you to leave by the back door if someone comes thru the front. So all are advised to know your local laws. And have the phone number of a good attorney on hand...

"...How do I identify your RV..."

It is the one with the US flag flying on the homemade flagstaf/weathervane, the rusty looking metal vulture bobbing his head near the front door (found that one in a store in Wyoming), and maybe a few empty vodka bottles floating around.

Re the groinshot, years ago I was taught, among other things, the "three from the ring" brand of baton use (this was a plain old wooden stick, not the sidehandle baton). First thrust to the throat area, second to the stermum, third to the groin. Bam bam bam. Works like a champ most of the time...

I don't have a gun or a bat (I'm kind of scared making this known - are the criminals in my area smart enough to read as I "advertise" this?). But I do have a short sword, about three feet long.

Not too long ago we called the police to complain about loud noise, music, and fighting that was coming from next door and about fifteen minutes later some random guy came stumbling to the door, three sheets to the wind, demanding to know why we called the police and saying he was going to kick all of our...well, you get the idea!

Nothing came of it, but to make a long story short I, along with that sword, was waiting at the top of the steps for this idiot to make a move. I had a perfect bee-line to the middle of the kitchen the instant he would have barged through the back door. Had he broken in, he would have had more to worry about than a police report and a hangover in the morning!

I always my trusty Gerber machete around. I guess it couldn't hurt to keep it by the bed.

http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0039823517381a.shtml

Hi Hacksaw,

I have never thought of using my hooked machete for home defence but do really like using it in the bush. I have an old Fiskar model and a new Wetterlings (have not used it yet), how do you like the Gerber?

Mike

I like it a lot. Unfortunately when I bought it I was hoping it could chop up kindling instead of an axe or hatchet but the blade is too thin and the whole thing is too light...The weight is fantastic for backpacking, especially if there's a lot of wrist thick stuff or smaller stuff around.

Come to think of it, this would make an interesting weapon to try to explain. I bought on as a teen (more for the Cool factor than practicality, as it's not great at chopping)

http://www.1sks.com/store/american-tomahawk-lagana-legend-vietnam-tomahawk.html

"whoop, whoop" would be all the poor SOB heard before it... clanged off the wall. I've never practiced with it. Sorry to disappoint. But, it would be interesting to see the look on the perp's face as I screamed bloody murder as I sprinted down the hall waving this around. Perhaps I need a headdress as well to complete the image?

Hi Hacksaw,

I found about the same use for my hooked machette as you do, trail/shooting lane clearing and shelter/treestand building. I guess you could baton it through wood to split it for a fire but I have never tried. I think the one I have is a little heavier as the handles are solid metal/plastic, it has proven to be a very tough and useful bush tool.

I apoligize for diverting this thread off topic; back to aluminum baseball bats for home defence.

Mike

Baseball bat, machette - we are still on topic. Both
are usefull against the SLOW and the UNARMED.

The young, small boy mentioned did quite well with the bat.

Sean Taylor, on the other hand, a physical monster in his own
right, did very poorly with a machette against a youth with
a hand gun. Sean Taylor took a round in the femoral artery
and died the next day.

Glad you liked it. Technically I could have beware of Mossberg, S&W, Ruger, Para ordinance, Colt, Remington, and about five others added to such a sign as I am a collector. My Mossberg 590 and my Para Ordnance .45 ACP are my dedicated HD guns though. In ref to your question I have been told by a friend who is ex Army turned police officer, that if you follow all steps to a normal escalation of force before you shoot then legally you should be fine. There are exceptions to this such as using exotic ammunition etc. If you shoot a person using a terminator round or a load of flechette then it may be hard to explain that one.

If you find someone in your home and give them a reasonable warning and they still intend on doing you harm then you should fair off well in court if you shoot. If they try to run and you chase them down and then shoot them in the back then your court case may head south on you fairly quick.
If there is only you and him then I guess there may be only one person left to tell the tale anyway. Much better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 as the old saying goes. I think if you shoot him in the groin with a load of #4 buckshot , smash him into a bloody jelly with a bat or cut him limb from quivering limb with a hooked machete then your case will be no different in front of a judge as there are no different levels of killing, dead is dead. If you torture him before calling the cops it may be looked at differently by a Judge I would imagine. I think being Military that my service to my country would be taken into account if I were the one doing the answering in court. (At least I hope so) Hopefully anyone who attempts to gain entry into my house whether I am home or not gets the fear of God put in him by my dog and decides to abort mission before it ever comes to the need to shoot him.

Usually jurisdiction has to judge the means you used to defend yourself and the facts that lead you to the conclusion that the used force was required. As a trained person you should be able to assess the situation faster and better than an untrained person and you should be able to use the intended amount of force.
E. g. a black belt martial artist may have a harder time to explain why a hit to the throat should be considered as accidental than an person who never had a self-defense class. A veteran police officer may be expected to actually hit the leg instead of the center of the torso when aiming for it.
Many people make the Wrath Of The Law come down on them by the way the handle the situation afterwards. Never say more than "I was involved" without your lawyer. The wrong version of the truth can very well spoil your day. Again a trained person should perform better than a layperson.

It's my understanding that in Canada people who are trained to kill (soldiers, martial arts black belts, etc) come under higher scrutiny in such situations for just that fact...they should be able to asses just how much force is needed better than the average person and be able to control themselves better than the average person.

My old Kung Fu instructor used to tell me that the sign of a good martial artist boiled down to 2 things. The first was intent...without intent you'll never succeed. The second was the ability to control that intent as if it's unrestrained it won't be effective.

He was very good at training a balance of the 'assume the other person is going to kill you at all times' mentality combined with the ability to only use what's needed to get the job done without going overboard.

How would they know that you are a Black Belt if you don't tell them?

Thankfully, here in Colorado, we have a law that protects homeowners on their property when they use reasonable force to defend themselves. It's nicknamed the "Make My Day" law.

It would easily come up in court if the person you defended yourself against charged you with assault.

That sounds so stupid but it happens.

I seriously doubt that anyone trained in the martial arts is any more liable than anyone else. This (to me) falls under the same category as people that loved to brag that they had to register their hands as lethal weapons...

I've heard of it happening...and really when it comes to court it's all about perception. All a lawyer has to do is put doubt in the minds of the jury and anybody who was just defending themselves can be seen as a cold blooded killer.

I tried to find precedence on the interweb and couldn't find anything but I did find some interesting links while looking:

http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Buckner/Chapter%2010.htm
http://www.self-defender.net/law5.htm
http://www.canadagunlaws.com/self-defense-laws-in-canada/

Texas is like another planet compared to Canada. Here's a quote from my first link



In this case the Crown made the right choice but every time they don't, there is precedent for the next time.

If and when you a forced to use violence the details of the situation, the state law and who you are and what you look like in relation to the person you hurt will all make a difference to the police, DA, and/or jury.

Florida is a 'castle' state. As such I am allowed to use any level of force necessary to defend myself in my home, car or place of work if I have reason to defend myself.

Like it or not, I'm not to happy about it, being white and the guy you shoot black makes a big difference. It isn't right but it is very real in most areas. Also if you have no prior record while they have an extensive file, particularly a record that includes violence, makes a big difference in how they will see it.

If an intruder uses force to break in your seen as more justified than if they come in through an open or unlocked door. An intruder 'pulling a Jack Nicholson' with an axe and pounding his way through a door, Hi honey I'm home, is more likely get you sympathy for a use of force than an intruder who happens to 'wander in'.

The sort of weapon used makes a difference. A tricked out black gun with laser sights is going to raise more eyebrows than a rusty single-shot shotgun or a weapon of opportunity. A kitchen knife, bat or golf club seem innocent enough as long as there are other things to add context. A baseball bat could look like you planned to ambush someone if it was all by itself or leaning in a pile with a sword, and axe. If you lean it in a corner with a mitt and ball and someone who can testify that you indeed do toss the ball around it looks more like it was just what was handy.

The sort of damage done is also telling. A head shot looks like an execution. A body shot looks less like showing off. Overkill is more likely to be seen as deserving sanction.

The comment of being carried by six or judged by twelve has some truth to it. But you have to remember that what looks to you, in the heat of the moment, like a situation where you had no choice might be closely examined by people under far less stress. There is some chance that every detail and action, your state of mind and intentions will be 'raked over the coals'.

It isn't enough to be justified. You have to seem justified in your intention and actions to people who may not be automatically inclined to see it your way.

I have a good amount of protection from prosecution and civil suit in this state as long as it seems like I have reason to be in fear for my life. Race, a lack or a record and the presence of stigmatized weapons further slant it in my direction. But it could still go against me if I mulch the head of a ninety pound ten year-old who I caught sneaking in through a door I forgot to close.

Context and details are important.

If and when you a forced to use violence the details of the situation, the state law and who you are and what you look like in relation to the person you hurt will all make a difference to the police, DA, and/or jury.

Florida is a 'castle' state. As such I am allowed to use any level of force necessary to defend myself in my home, car or place of work if I have reason to defend myself.

Like it or not, I'm not to happy about it, being white and the guy you shoot black makes a big difference. It isn't right but it is very real in most areas. Also if you have no prior record while they have an extensive file, particularly a record that includes violence, makes a big difference in how they will see it.

If an intruder uses force to break in your seen as more justified than if they come in through an open or unlocked door. An intruder 'pulling a Jack Nicholson' with an axe and pounding his way through a door, Hi honey I'm home, is more likely get you sympathy for a use of force than an intruder who happens to 'wander in'.

The sort of weapon used makes a difference. A tricked out black gun with laser sights is going to raise more eyebrows than a rusty single-shot shotgun or a weapon of opportunity. A kitchen knife, bat or golf club seem innocent enough as long as there are other things to add context. A baseball bat could look like you planned to ambush someone if it was all by itself or leaning in a pile with a sword, and axe. If you lean it in a corner with a mitt and ball and someone who can testify that you indeed do toss the ball around it looks more like it was just what was handy.

The sort of damage done is also telling. A head shot looks like an execution. A body shot looks less like showing off. Overkill is more likely to be seen as deserving sanction.

The comment of being carried by six or judged by twelve has some truth to it. But you have to remember that what looks to you, in the heat of the moment, like a situation where you had no choice might be closely examined by people under far less stress. There is some chance that every detail and action, your state of mind and intentions will be 'raked over the coals'.

It isn't enough to be justified. You have to seem justified in your intention and actions to people who may not be automatically inclined to see it your way.

I have a good amount of protection from prosecution and civil suit in this state as long as it seems like I have reason to be in fear for my life. Race, a lack or a record and the presence of stigmatized weapons further slant it in my direction. But it could still go against me if I mulch the head of a ninety pound ten year-old who I caught sneaking in through a door I forgot to close.

Context and details are important.

If and when you a forced to use violence the details of the situation, the state law and who you are and what you look like in relation to the person you hurt will all make a difference to the police, DA, and/or jury.

Florida is a 'castle' state. As such I am allowed to use any level of force necessary to defend myself in my home, car or place of work if I have reason to defend myself.

Like it or not, I'm not to happy about it, being white and the guy you shoot black makes a big difference. It isn't right but it is very real in most areas. Also if you have no prior record while they have an extensive file, particularly a record that includes violence, makes a big difference in how they will see it.

If an intruder uses force to break in your seen as more justified than if they come in through an open or unlocked door. An intruder 'pulling a Jack Nicholson' with an axe and pounding his way through a door, Hi honey I'm home, is more likely get you sympathy for a use of force than an intruder who happens to 'wander in'.

The sort of weapon used makes a difference. A tricked out black gun with laser sights is going to raise more eyebrows than a rusty single-shot shotgun or a weapon of opportunity. A kitchen knife, bat or golf club seem innocent enough as long as there are other things to add context. A baseball bat could look like you planned to ambush someone if it was all by itself or leaning in a pile with a sword, and axe. If you lean it in a corner with a mitt and ball and someone who can testify that you indeed do toss the ball around it looks more like it was just what was handy.

The sort of damage done is also telling. A head shot looks like an execution. A body shot looks less like showing off. Overkill is more likely to be seen as deserving sanction.

The comment of being carried by six or judged by twelve has some truth to it. But you have to remember that what looks to you, in the heat of the moment, like a situation where you had no choice might be closely examined by people under far less stress. There is some chance that every detail and action, your state of mind and intentions will be 'raked over the coals'.

It isn't enough to be justified. You have to seem justified in your intention