Yes, -someone who's only education was learning their Holy Book by Heart, -isn't gonna know all the Fine Complexities involved in creating, and then setting a nuclear device off.

But on the Flip Side of that very same coin, -I Remind and Caution of Factors such as the following,-

) The often Astonishing Ease of getting Nuclear Materials and other WMD out of the former Soviet Union, -just a lttle to their north.

) Iran's longstanding actual and active pursuit of such things. And moreover, Iran is certainly in "their general league and club". And even if one beleives a newer "intelligence" report to the contrary, -Fact remains they wer longtime, and bigtime, -working on it! That Nuclear Material and Know How, -didn't just majically disappear into thin air!

) saadam's longtime Nuclear and other WMD pursuit just to Iran's west. These too didn't just majically disappear off! Sure, many weren't ultimately found, -But that doesn't mean that they were never there! One can always hide, transfer, or destroy them, -"while the Inspector Cat's away!". if transferred, -who may they have been transferred to?! Perhaps to some among the very groups we're speaking of here! As with the way that everything ends up in a flea market or liquidation, -such things can end up in Wrong Hands as we speak of here, as well. Israel didn't just strike a baby milk factory or something, -as long ago as 81 or 82. But a genuine, "Bomb Capable", Nuclear Reactor.

) Pakistan, also from among their "Cultural Camp", to say a least, Definitely *Has* not only Nuclear Materials, -but the Bomb itself! And to boot, -this is the country that OBL and his entourage, are beleived to be most likely hiding in! and there's suppossedly not some increased liklihood of Transfer or Theft here!?...

) North Korea, and their Nuclear Shennanigans.

) The list need not end here!

These "Limited Dopes" sure learned how to fly an Airliner!

Given enuff time and hidden "cavework", -they *can* conceivably Achieve such a Complexity! From the Brainwork of others, -if not all their own. As a saying should perhaps go, "If you can't Pull it Off yourself, -then go Take it Off from others!" Others that can!

I Strongly Advise, -that such Real Factors as I mention, -be put in people's Pipes, and Smoked on, -for awhile! Before just dismissing them out of hand. And that by a look at only your side of the Coin! No!, -also look on that *Other* side as I mention, as well!

Not to invoke the label of "conspiracy theorist", but I have to think that if those in power really wanted the threat to be gone, we have all the means and methods necessary to effect such desire into a reality in fairly short order. I don't think the establishment is as interested in making the world a safer place to live as it is to maintain a venue whereby they can justify certain activities for "the ever diligent and greater good" of our society.

I just can't accept, given what I know about our own capabilities, that we really are unable to neutralize any threat swiftly and completely if we really wanted to. If there was a real will to stop the terrorists, or the invasion of America, or the proliferation of nuclear arms, then it would happen and happen rather quickly.

It makes much more sense that we maintain this "threat level" as justification for ongoing funding of certain programs, generalized increased scrutiny of the masses, and securing ever increasing levels of tyranny. Who 10 years ago would ever have thought we would be standing in security lines for hours just to go from Seattle to Portland, and not be allowed to bring a book of matches or a bottle of water with you? Yet they can't(won't) stop anyone from just walking into this country as they please?

We are moving towards PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. in leaps and bounds these days. I never thought being a citizen would be such a debtriment in my lifetime.

As a retired military veteran,, I completely agree with you, Benjammin

Benajmmin and wildman800...ditto

USAF Retired

Benajmmin -

Maybe I need to start smokin'...cigars...to achieve the same clarity of thought. Seriously, well put.

I have gone over this before and I have refrained (from spouting the same ole storyline) until now BUT the same ole subject and question keeps arising, so I'll say it again (sorry if I bore anybody).

The nuclear problem is not that difficult of a problem if one knows what they are dealing with. To survive, the following is needed:

1) The farther away from ground zero, the better. Trying to shelter from blast effects can be difficult without 24-48 hrs notice.

2) A shelter has to provide the following: Food, water, toilet facility, garbage/sewage storage/disposal, AIR, and CARBON DIOXIDE removal, a light source.

3) Nice to haves: A way to heat up food (CARBON MONOXIDE removal if a flame is lighted), board games/cards/text books, passive communications (AM/FM/UHF/satellite/scanner radio and T.V, cellphones), a method to generate electrical power, etc.

4) Radioactive particles decay on a Bell Curve. Most Gamma Ray emitting particles will go up a few miles of altitude and will stay aloft until after they have decayed and become Isotopes. Any fallout particles from the blast forced horizontally outward, at ground level, pose a serious problem until it has rained several times and washed them into the creeks, streams, rivers, etc. and/or washed them deep into the soil. Again, the farther away from Ground Zero that one is, the better. The Alpha and Beta particles are easily shielded against. Neutron radioactive particles have twice the penetration of Gamma Particles but the chances of having to deal with Neutron particles is very slight and of limited blast range and decay within 36 hours. If Neutron particles are in your neighborhood, chances are you will die quickly and quietly because distance from a potential Nuke Target is critical for survival, at any rate.

5) Gamma Particles have a range of 100-300 feet from the particle. It takes 14 Half-Life Shield thicknesses to protect one from Gamma radiation.

6) Neutron Particles have a classified range from the particle but the effective range of the weapon is destruction out 1-3 miles and radiation out to 30-35 miles. It takes 28 Half-Life Shield thicknesses to protect one from Neutron radiation. (derived from a Nursing Manual; can you believe it?)

7) Beta Particles have a range of 10-30 feet from the particle. It takes tightly woven clothing to block Beta radiation.

8) Alpha Particles have a range of 1-3 inches from the particle. It takes paper to block Alpha radiation.

9) Air intake can be achieved with a simple hand-operated cyclinder pump made from plywood with rubber trimming and axle grease and by using rubber flapper valves to control the intake and outtakes.

10) CO2 (& Carbon Monoxide) removal can be achieved with a 2" PVC pipe that runs from a 1/4" off of the deck to the exterior. A rubber flapper valve attached to the top rim of the pipe, outside of the shelter, will allow the gases to escape when air is forced into the shelter and close off as air is sucked into the shelter, by the hand-operated pump.

11) A porta-potty will collect sewage and short trips can be made to the toilet to dump the holding tank when it is full, providing that one is sheltering inside of their home.

12) Potable water can be stored inside of the area chosen to be a shelter in various ways. Non-potable water (for the toilet reservoir) can be stored in any container in or outside of the shelter.

13) Possible shelter spaces within the home (providing you are far enough away from Ground Zero to start with) can be a bathroom (the larger the better) or a garage (have to seal off around the doors and windows) and be able to run piping for air intake, CO2 out take, and conduit for power (?) and external antennas (if you have communications capabilities).

14) Great sources of info:
www.standeyo.com www.daretoprepare.com

and place the following into a search engine: What to Do If Nuclear Attack Or Disaster Is Imminent; and Nuclear War Survival Skills.

15) The knowledge of the threat and actively planning & preparing for that event will have one prepared for just about any natural or man made disaster and allows one to sleep very well at night.

16) IMHO!

I forgot to mention the following:

9a) You can use the air breather assembly from your car, connected to the air intake piping. Wrap a new flannel shirt around the air filter element and you should be good to go for cleaned air.