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#118940 - 01/05/08 01:25 PM Problems wih bugging out under Martial Law
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
The problems with bugging out:

Under Martial Law conditions-
1) Slow movement due to the need to remain concealed from law enforcement and military units (avoid being forced into a "Refugee Camp").

2) Slow movement due to need to avoid "Brigands".

3) Forced to leave food and other resources behind. (if local authorities hadn't already been informed of your "hoarding" and seized it already).
3a) "Hoard" the majority of food and resources at the bug out location.

4) The need to maintain a 24/7 security/defensive watch/tactics while on the move and in encampment.


Without Martial Law restrictions:
1) Slow movement due to need to avoid "Brigands".

2) Forced to leave food and other resources behind. (if local authorities hadn't already been informed of your "hoarding" and seized it already or from lack of carrying capacity).
2a) "Hoard" the majority of food and resources at the bug out location.

3) The need to maintain a 24/7 security/defensive watch/tactics while on the move and in encampment.

What other hazards does bugging out under a semi-hostile environment incur?
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#118948 - 01/05/08 02:51 PM Re: Problems wih bugging out under Martial Law [Re: wildman800]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
The cart's before the horse. Could you define Martial Law Conditions.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#118983 - 01/05/08 11:23 PM Re: Problems wih bugging out under Martial Law [Re: Russ]
NeighborBill Offline
Enthusiastic
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 385
Loc: Oklahoma City
I'll define Martial Law as I saw it carried out under Katrina conditions:

1) No open possession of firearms
2) No movement after dark
3) No "groups" of citizens (more than 3) ever
4) etc, etc.

You can add to this: cops/soldiers/etc. can take from you whatever you have, for any reason. Any disobedience will be met with force and/or relocation (sans gear).

Basically, suspension of constitutional amendments--no one will argue your right to be "free" as long as you do what they say smile
_________________________
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein

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#119020 - 01/06/08 04:34 AM Re: Problems wih bugging out under Martial Law [Re: Russ]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Mine isn't a legal definition, but a practical one:

You have infantry and armoured vehicles patrolling the streets and securing "critical points", with civilian law enforcement either out of the picture or reduced to a secondary force. And if someone in uniform decides to arrest you, they do- if they decide you are resisting, you are. And the courts don't get a hell of a lot to say about it until MAYBE long after.

Remember, cops aren't soldiers; soldiers aren't cops. Soldiers do not know nor care a whole lot about the law, only maintaining order on the principle that when things are out of order they are in danger. And no offense to anyone here, but I've known a lot of Gaurdies (who would be among the mostly likely troops called out for ML) who I don't trust with a loaded baseball bat, much less a rifle. If seeing infantry on the street of an American town doesn't scare the poop out of you, it should.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#119028 - 01/06/08 10:19 AM Re: Problems wih bugging out under Martial Law [Re: ironraven]
Onedzguy Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 69
Loc: Lost in Waipahu, HI
Need to know the circumstances that brought out this martial law.
Was it a hurricane as Billy has mention? Or a Tsunami in the Pacific or Indonesia. An earthquake like in San Fransisco? Or an erupting volcano like Mt ST. Helen? How about a riot in Los Angles that happened many years ago?

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#119030 - 01/06/08 11:35 AM Re: Problems wih bugging out under Martial Law [Re: ironraven]
NeighborBill Offline
Enthusiastic
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 385
Loc: Oklahoma City
Agreed, and I would be offended if I hadn't spent more than half my time on active duty smile

--Former Guardie

At least they're not as bad as the "La Guardia" of certain South American countries...
_________________________
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein

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#119134 - 01/07/08 02:52 AM Re: Problems wih bugging out under Martial Law [Re: NeighborBill]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Along with the guys I don't trust with a baseball bat, I know a lot of guys in the Guard I'd trust with the lives of those who are important to me. I'm just saying there are some sketchy people who are a war crime waiting to happen.

And I've had friends who are in the Guard and Reserve, and even active duty, who've told me they are afraid of what would happen if a "peace support operation" was to be conducted in the States right now. They consider it a given that if it were to happen at this moment, there would be bad results.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#119158 - 01/07/08 01:12 PM Re: Problems wih bugging out under Martial Law [Re: ironraven]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Okay so now we have an idea of what martial law means regarding who, but what are they really doing? As for the original question:
Quote:
The problems with bugging out:

Under Martial Law conditions-
1) Slow movement due to the need to remain concealed from law enforcement and military units (avoid being forced into a "Refugee Camp").

2) Slow movement due to need to avoid "Brigands".

3) Forced to leave food and other resources behind. (if local authorities hadn't already been informed of your "hoarding" and seized it already).
3a) "Hoard" the majority of food and resources at the bug out location.

4) The need to maintain a 24/7 security/defensive watch/tactics while on the move and in encampment.
While all of the above may be true, I don't think that any of the above is necessarily true, although 4) is always a good idea regardless. As always, if you're going to bug-out, do so early.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#120204 - 01/15/08 10:53 AM Re: Problems wih bugging out under Martial Law [Re: Onedzguy]
Madbomber_Mike Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 54
Loc: The End of the World, Iraq
As someone who was in LA in '92, I can give a little input.
One, as we saw there, the Guard was overwhelmed immediately and would have required at least another week to move enough assets into the area. We (thew active Army and Marines) were ordered to immediately move in and enforce the declaration of martial law. Which we did. As I remember, the only ones that got their rights stepped on, were the doofus gang bangers that took pot shots at us...Up armored HMMWV w M60 machinegun vs lowrider w Tec-9 ..... you do the math!
There, the Gulf Coast, and here in Iraq, we have had no orders respecting hoarding. Privately owned and legal weapons in the US were fine as long as they were in your home or business, regardless of how many. We even let numerous people go with concealed carry with legal permits, or on a case by case basis.
Of course here, we only allow 1 AK per home.

By the way, we hate being there more that you hate us being there, we just want to get back home with as little fuss as possible... intact preferably. We are'nt cops, by a long shot!

Cheers
_________________________
"There is no human problem that cannot be solved with an appropriate quantity of High Explosives!"

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#120399 - 01/16/08 02:55 PM Re: Problems wih bugging out under Martial Law [Re: Madbomber_Mike]
Troglodyte007
Unregistered


Hint: Bug out before martial law sets in.
Supportive fact: They want to enslave you.
Method: Prepare now!

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