Hello all, and a very merry Christmas, happy holidays or whatever else people celebrate this time of year.
An annoying relative of mine had been asking me for some time to do a hike together during the Christmas leave period. Yesterday I broke down and agreed. He is the sort of lad who thinks himself an expert in survival simply because he has the most expensive gear and because he watches survivor man, man versus wild, and spends countless hours talking on survival forums. He was about to be humbled by the outdoors greatly. He is a BIG advocate of the lighter is better school of thought when it comes to gear. I on the other hand, I believe it best to pick the gear that will do the best job for the situations you want to put yourself in and deal with the extra weight. I suppose, just like anything else there are people who have arguments for either side. After we stepped off, he was falling back after about only 200 m into the trek, barely out of sight of the parked truck. After the first K or two, I had to wait several times for him to catch up. By the time we decided to make a quick set up for lunch and a hot drink he was soaked in sweat despite to best efforts at ventilating. His lighter theory has a few holes in it at this point. I carry a Coleman peak 1 mountain stove. It is super reliable, easy to replace parts and with it you can have boiling water from snow and ice in about 5 min when placed on high. The case makes a great pot set as well. The drawback is the weight. The solution is to get used to carrying it. I had water boiling almost as fast as he got his fancy titanium super stove even lit. Falling snow put his out three times. The peak 1had no problems when lit. Because of the small amount of heat coming from his little stove he ended up packing it away and drying his wet toque and gloves over mine. Because he had sweat so much during the walk in he needed to dry off as much as possible before freezing. The peak 1 did great without having to light a fire.(I was feeling lazy) Was the extra weight and bulk worth carrying through the snow in Alberta during winter?? You bet your ass it was. This is only one example of how his so called BETTER, LIGHTER gear was not up to the challenge. Once packed up and back on the move after lunch I still had 3 quarters of a tank of fuel, enough for a long while if used properly. On the way back to the truck, I had to stop to wait several more times for him to catch up. I train to carry my gear. Once per week as part of my cardio training I will place 25 extra pounds in my pack. The rest is packed as per the field. I will then do a brisk walk with a slight incline on the treadmill for 45-60 minutes. When you take the extra weight out, you will be amazed at how much easier it is to carry that pack. Until this trip I had no idea just how much this training was paying off. My cuz is 10 years younger than me and his pack was a hell of a lot lighter. The whole point of my long winded rant you may ask?? Lighter does not mean better, it just means lighter. Sometimes it is worth the extra weight to take the items you know will work. If your pack is heavy, then exercise. Reliable is better than lighter any day. And lastly, All the expensive, lightweight gear in the world is absolutely worthless is you can’t put your pack on your back and hump your sorry ass from point A to point B. Your brain may very well be the most important tool in a survival situation, but your brain can’t carry your gear for you. After all his bragging about all of his skill and knowledge I became very irate every time I would look back to see him wheezing and leaning on both knees unable to even talk clearly due to being winded. Up until now I had been considering purchasing newer, lighter items because honestly, everyone else was following that trend. Now I see the error of my ways. I will stick to the kit I am comfortable with and enjoy using. I apologize for the long winded rant, but I had to get it off my chest. I have ribbed my cousin many times since yesterday, (in good fun) and I know that he reads this forum religiously even though he is not a member. But I have many couch potato friends like him who think they know it all because they read books, watch TV and surf the net. The bottom line IMHO is that expensive does not mean better, lighter does not mean better and no matter how smart you may think you are your are doomed to fail if you cannot keep up with the physical aspect of survival. Your brain can only get you so far, your body has to do the rest. For all my lazy friends reading this, Get off the couch and TRAIN BOTH. In the meantime I will just shut my big mouth.

that saved me from a whole lot of reading!

Your story makes my cart idea more and more appealing. Or, judging from those pictures, a sled.

Every single day I curse my job. I've always considered it unfortunate to be doing hard physical labor for a living, while so many other people are getting paid a lot more to do practically no hard work at all. But I guess there is one good thing to be said about my job after all - it keeps me in shape. Spending 10 hours a day loading heavy freight by hand onto trucks makes carrying a pack in the woods a literal "walk in the park."

I prefer reliable over light, if light compromises reliability. I don't know if it always does though. I don't have the personal experience to make that call. Most of my gear would be considered heavy, but that's more due to cost than other factors usually (but not always though). I carry a heavier regular space blanket as opposed to the mylar emergency blanket (the heavier one costs more in this case). But I will also carry a HeatSheets as a backup or alternate if the situation fits.

Most of my dayhikes find me carrying my gear in a Deuter Futura 32. Most people would consider a 32 liter pack a bit much for a dayhike (I'm talking summer weather). But it comfortably holds my volumes of slightly heavier gear. The Deuter itself might be considered a fairly high-tech pack, but definitely not an ultralight one.

I can't say that I agree with your apparent choice of brawn over brains. I would prefer the brains myself. Brawn might get you further in the short term, but if the brainy guys manages to to live past the short term hazards, I'd bet my money on MacGyver rather than The Hulk for the long term. Note: Having brains does not imply that you should be out of shape though. Your cousin sounds like he might be out of shape, or, you are presenting him that way to make a point (it doesn't sound like you care for him too much). Best would be brawny brainy, but you don't see that particular combination very often.

I don't disagree with anything you said but it seems the moral of the story is to get in shape and exercise. Depending on the item, lightweight gear is fine but you still have to be in shape to carry it. Sounds like your idea of training with more gear than you normally carry is a great way to go regardless of whether your go lightweight or not. Apparently something your cousin is in need of.

Great pictures by the way.

In survival you need brains and brawn. Anyone who thinks he's into "survival" because he's read all the books, but is overweight, out of shape and isn't serious about getting back into shape with exercise, isn't really serious about survival. Your cousin needs to get serious about physical conditioning, it doesn't get easier as you age.

As for lightweight vs reliable, I put reliable/durable first and only look at weight when comparing items of similar capability. Lighter is better as long as reliability and durability are not compromised.

BTW, I carry an MSR Pocket Rocket w/ two fuel cannisters, but being in SOCAL I'm not subject to the much colder temps of Alberta, Canada where cannister fuel wouldn't do so well in winter. For that I'd switch to one of my Svea 123 stoves. I also carry a lot of water and an MSR water filter, because there's no snow to melt and any water I come across is suspect. My walking pack comes in at 12 lbs without water. With 5 quarts of water it pushes 20 lbs -- an easy load.

Having your body and your mind shaped up is the first essential in the outdoors or in a survival situation (maybe in life in general/).

But imagine if your pack was five pounds lighter, cost no more, and was equally reliable? There are lots of examples - a quart sports drink bottle (my favorite is gatorade) is lighter than the ubiquitous Nalgene container, just as reliable, and significantly lighter. I like my nice light Pocket Rocket stove for most situation. It is hotter than your Coleman, and a good bit lighter. It has never let me down. On the other hand, I have not used it yet in seriously cold conditions. I think the best stove for winter is a liquid fuel, much like yours.

I spent several years evolving the perfect SAR pack which had to be comprehensive, workable for a variety of emergencies, and ready to roll almost immediately. I had some spendy stuff, but a lot of it was fairly cheap. I used an alcohol stove - simple, foolproof, cheap, and reliable, and less of a hassle than white gas. Getting and keeping the wheels and motor (me) in shape was critical.

Don't set up a false trade off between light and reliable - sometimes there is a sweet spot where they coincide.

(All IMO, of course.)

Being in shape is the key, regardless of the weight carried. Heavy isn't necessarily better either--it's just heavier. Reliability is more a question of design and appropriate use rather than materials. If you know the limitations of a piece of gear and how to use it correctly, anything is reliable.

I have five of everything because I used to manage a backpacking shop (which is like letting a drunk tend bar). If backpacking, I'll always choose the lightest item that will do the job at hand, which varies.

My three-season long-distance pack weight is 15 pounds before food and water, and that has seen me comfortably along 400 miles of the Appalachian Trail. On weekend trips I might push the envelope and get under 10 pounds, or go the other way and carry luxury/winter items (white gas vs. alcohol stove) that jack it up to 25. In higher mountains or off-trail, my pack obviously weighs more. My day-hiking gear weighs more than my backpacking load just to keep me in shape. I also try to get out occasionally and bivy with my day load, which keeps me honest.

None of this matters if I let myself get out of shape. In-shape with a heavy pack is fine, but in-shape with a light pack is a blast. I can run a quick mile with my pack on (which I've done to get off a ridge when a sudden storm blows up out of a blue sky), do 12 miles before lunch and snooze the afternoon away, or just keep going and rip off 30 miles without paying for it the next day.

The difference between a 3-minute boil (white gas) vs. 6-minutes (alcohol) usually doesn't matter because I'm not out there to count minutes. Your mileage may vary :-]

I hope you didn’t get the wrong idea. I don’t think Braun is more important, I think it can be JUST AS important in a survival situation. If you are bugging IN your house after an emergency then it may not be a big factor. It becomes really important if you have to carry anything over a distance though.

This doesn't seem to have anything to do with light vs. heavy gear but rather being in good enough shape to hike with a pack. Knocking light gear as somehow inferior doesn't hold up based on the practical experience of many.

I think in this case it's not the gear which failed but a false sense of security provided by the UL gear mentality. I think most of us remember the magazine article a couple of months ago advising people to ditch their knife and replace it with a razor blade...going light for the wrong reasons or when your body isn't prepared (mentally or physically) is a ticking time bomb...and for that matter going heavier than you are prepared for is just as bad.

Bottom line is that cousin needs to concentrate on physical conditioning (strength and stamina) regardless of the gear he's packing. He'd probably have had as much trouble keeping pace if he had had no pack at all.

I didn't see that. How do they expect you to carve a deadfall trap?

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=111241&fpart=1

It was a hot topic here for a while.

Funny, I have a nice sedentary job and wish there was more physical component to it. My upper body strength is severely lacking. I have to go out of my way (to a gym) to keep in shape. It is amazing how much precious after work time it takes up, just to be in shape. I also know that even when I can jog 3-4 miles in 45 minutes, I am still not in shape. Better shape, but, not top shape.

I believe that a person's pay is inversely proportional to how important they are in the short term.

OK. I would be much closer to agreeing with that. Maybe it's just me, but when I hear the word brawn I think of body building super strong guys, not just the "physically fit" part of it. And when I hear "Braun", well, I think of electric razors ;-)

Heavier is not better - it's just heavier. Cheaper is not better - it's just cheaper.

(See - the same blanket statements work in reverse.)

Good gear is good gear, and can be light or heavy, cheap or expensive. I prefer stuff that's well-made and multi-purpose, and I don't want to carry extra weight unless there's a good reason. If there is, I do.

As almost everyone said, you can't go wrong being in better shape and knowing how to get the most out of whatever gear you have, based on experience in the conditions you'll be in.

This is the exact point I was trying to make. You put it in better words.

I don’t want anyone to misunderstand. I am not a big advocate for heavy items. I am a really a big advocate for reliable items. I don’t care what they weigh (within reason) so long as they do the job that I want. Are there stoves smaller than the Peak 1 that can do the same job in a smaller package?? Without a doubt there are many, but I do not feel the need to suddenly rush out and spend tones of cash on one. I certainly no longer feel at any disadvantage to someone who has(like my cousin) because for all the money he spent he was let down. For another example, one item in my backpack PSK is a Suunto compass. It is a compass that I have used for 11 years at work as a backup to a GPS. The ability to shoot accurate bearings/back bearings is just something that I cannot do with any button style compass. I am so used to it that I cannot imagine ever replacing it with anything smaller. It has worked for me in the dessert and in the Arctic with no problem, and the sighting mirror is a great back up signal mirror. In eleven years I have never seen one broken. It is not exactly small for a compass in a PSK by any stretch though. I have had NUMEROUS arguments with people trying to tell me that I should replace it with something smaller. My whole argument is why should I ? It works great. If my GPS should ever fail and I am faced with only one compass to trust my life to then it will be this one. I have friends that think this way of thinking is totally insane and that light is the only way to go, and no matter how good an item works they will not consider it unless it is the absolute smallest available. The point of the post was more to vent at people like them than to create a big debate. At the end of the day we all carry what we like the best, regardless of others opinions. I just feel some people get a little carried away with the whole idea of making everything super light.

Does the Peak 1 stove burn unleaded gasoline in addition to white gas? If so, then it could really be worth it's weight and then some as a survival too. I wish I'd known about the Coleman dual/multi fuel stoves before I spent my money...they're pretty affordable compared to what's out there.

They burn kerosene or Naphtha by simply changing the generators. They are a little harder to light and may require that starter/heating paste in extreme cold or at high altitudes. The booklet recommends against using gasoline, but I have heard of people using it with the only problem being that the stove burns sluggish and not at the normal high (blue/white flame) level of intensity. I personally have not tried it though.

I never did get a reference to that article. I'd have to read it myself before I'd believe Backpacker made that claim.

I can relate to this.

I'll never forget as a Boy Scout with a 5 dollar external frame POS backpack up in the Rockies coming across a party with the latest gear caught in a rainstorm. One of the guys had a thin plastic poncho and was in the first stages of hypothermia. We were able to warm him up and get some warm fluids down him.

And yet, I'm certainly supportive of getting the best gear you can with the lowest weight. Your knees will thank you years down the road. Case in point was my purchase of some nice Leki poles. They helped me out tremendously, but I bore the ribbing of my comrades with a simple "It works for me!" Lo and behold, several years later, imagine my surprise when the oldest of my friends bought himself a pair. He HAD to mention that his were vastly different from mine, so I couldn't say "I told you so."

Sorry to bring this one back to life guys but I have to...

Backbacker December issue. Page 80. Here's my favorite excerps:

Step 2 Weigh everything (This is where they claim a razor blade is as good as a knife)
Step 4: Change your bedding (get a lighter sleeping bag and sleep in your clothes)
Step 7: Ditch the map
Step 9: Take less medicine (They recommend antibiotic ointment, duct tape, gauge pads, bandages, and blister treatment only)
Step 10: Empty your bottles (don't carry water...1L max if needed and guzzle when you find water long the way)